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[king5b]

I have most of the other Reinhardt material but this one is the most practical for practicing. One thing that I have been wondering about.  Reinhardt advises against crossing the legs when playing because "serious damage can occur".  Damage to what? 

[Doug Elliott]

He was always concerned about anything that might cause or contribute to any playing problems, especially getting a hernia from the abdominal pressure of playing.  I think in the 40's that was not uncommon, plus don't forget that a lot of his students were trumpet players intent on being able to scream Double High C's and higher.  His whole System is designed to teach how to play without problems for the rest of your life.  There's no good reason why brass players should have a limited length of career. And that includes the problems that people blame on "focal dystonia" which is a very real disdorder but I believe has no relation to the damage that has caused some well known brass players to retire.

But I digress...

I cross my legs half the time.  It can cause knee problems if nothing else.

[Dennis K.]

Doug -
Why do you think the opening "Pivot Stabilizer" can cause damage? 

[Doug Elliott]

I said more harm than good; not "damage."

If you are using incorrect motion for your face (and most people who come to me for lessons are), it will give you a false sense of security (after all, you're practing REINHARDT's exercises) with absolutely no knowledge of how you should be doing it or what you should be correcting.  Therefore, the chances are you'll be doing it just as incorrectly as the rest of your playing.  Plus it's a pretty strenuous way to start the day in case you're really doing something wrong.

The other warmup stuff is much more familiar and safe sort of exercises.

In the time I studied with Reinhardt I saw way too many people get turned off of it because they didn't understand their personal corrections or HOW to practice his stuff.  I teach the same material, but differently, to make it more understandable.

Reinhardt always said "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."  He was right.  The Pivot Stabilizer is supposed to come with personalized instructions on how to "stabilize" your "pivot.".  But you got it in a book over the internet with no instructions.  There's lots more to it than just playing the exercise.

[Dennis K.]

Thanks, Doug.
Next coupla questions:
Nose Breathing? - does that mean to keep the embouchure set on the mouthpiece and inhale through your nose, or does it mean to relax the embouchure while still maintaining contact w/ the mouthpiece and inhale through your nose?

Hooo Attacks - I'm on day 4 (started on Monday) - So far, the daily routines start off with Hooo attacks.  After a bunch of LongTone-esque exercises that start with "Hooo", I'm finding it difficult to have a focused attack - basically what comes out is something more akin to a "Th" instead of a clear "Tooo" or "Dooo" articulation.  I find that I need to stop the routine, do some articulation exercises, then go back to the Reinhardt book.  Any suggestions on what might be going on? or is this normal, until one becomes acclimated to this routine?

Thanks for your insight.

PS - Tower of Power has a great song on their CD Monster on a Leash called A Little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing

[Doug Elliott]

Nose Breathing? - does that mean to keep the embouchure set on the mouthpiece and inhale through your nose, or does it mean to relax the embouchure while still maintaining contact w/ the mouthpiece and inhale through your nose?

To make it perfectly clear:

Always stay completely firm (as if you are still playing) with full mouthpiece pressure too, during a nose breath.  You should not feel or see any change in your face between playing and breathing.   Clear?

Hooo Attacks -   After a bunch of LongTone-esque exercises that start with "Hooo", I'm finding it difficult to have a focused attack - basically what comes out is something more akin to a "Th" instead of a clear "Tooo" or "Dooo" articulation. ...  Any suggestions on what might be going on?

Something is changing that shouldn't be.  The quickest solution is to mix up the attacks - don't do so many Hooo attacks in a row. But that's just masking the symptom.  It shouldn't be happening.

It sounds related to my first answer above.  You're relaxing (collapsing) before the Hooo attacks when you should be staying firm.

[RichWilley]

Reinhardt always said "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."  He was right.  The Pivot Stabilizer is supposed to come with personalized instructions on how to "stabilize" your "pivot.".  But you got it in a book over the internet with no instructions.  There's lots more to it than just playing the exercise.

Actually, there are a lot of instructions on that page, starting with:

1. When executing descending slurs, always keep the “weight” on the lower lip. This prevents the unwanted “jaw drop” for the lower register and is the key to all-around correct brass playing.

Reinhardt told me* that you could boil it all down to keeping the “weight” on the lower lip when doing a descending slur. He told me he always regretted using the word “pivot” and that people made it more complicated than it ever was.

I have gotten many emails from trumpeters and trombonists regarding these routines, and I have concluded that the most important thing to remember is to not try to be a super-hero when playing this stuff. At the first sign of strain, stop. It's really just that simple. Most of us (myself included) have trouble putting the horn down while it's still feeling good, and end up practicing past the point where we're building and end up in that destructive territory where we're tearing down.


*Remember, I moved up there to study with him in '81, and spent the better part of two years seeing him many times a month.

[Dennis K.]

Doug - very helpful
Muchas Gracias

[Doug Elliott]

Sorry Rich, I know there are some very valuable instructions there.  But with students "in trouble" I find that that's not enough.  They need very specific direction including showing them what to do, in multiple ways, and making sure they understand.  I see people who have strong tendencies to  play parts of their range using the wrong type for their face.  You know what "keeping the weight on the lower lip to descend" means, but does someone else really understand it?  The cornerstone  of Reinhardt's teaching was his "Pivot" which absolutely needs personal instruction.  That's what the "Pivot Stablizer" was designed for.  I don't think it should be played in a random manner.

*Remember, I moved up there to study with him in '81, and spent the better part of two years seeing him many times a month.

I rest my case.

[Pivotbone]

Doug, I see your point.  I have been studying Reinhardt's teachings for a few years now, have given lessons on his teachings, etc., and I still find that I have a tendency to reverse pivots in the middle-low register.  The Pivot Stabilizer has been a much-needed check for me to make sure things are going OK or to get things back on track.

[Doug Elliott]

On this forum I have intentionally avoided the term "pivot" except to say that I don't use that word in my teaching.  I don't even use the Pivot Stabilizer.  But here we are...

People are going to think that he taught "waving your horn in the breeze."  (His words)

I would prefer to keep calling it "embouchure motion" (my words) unless somebody has a better idea.

Anyway, this is getting off the subject.  Let the book stand on its own as a comprehensive collection of his written exercises...

[ssherwick]

Rich,

More for your "things to fix" list. On page 7, sections 5 & 6 are both missing their key signatures.

I just hope to stay awake through these exercises, they are snoozers to say the least.
 

[Doug Elliott]

Feel free to shorten any execises you don't like.   Just do it in 1st, or 1-2-3-4.  But there is value to those, if you pay attention to the slurs, not the notes.

[sanfranboner]

Yes, there are key signatures missing in many places. 

One thing you might want to clarify:  The daily prologue emphatically states that one must play on a wet embouchure, but then on p. 7, an instruction begins:  "Regardless of whether you play on a wet or dry embouchure..."

Not trying to be a pain, just helping you get some wrinkles ironed out.  I'm enjoying playing these exercises - except for playing long tones, it's been a while since I've sat myself down for such intense practicing on simple basics for a good chunk of time daily.

[Doug Elliott]

I think that's intentional.  He highly recommended playing wet, but the fact is not everybody does or will.

[RichWilley]

Yes, there are key signatures missing in many places.

Thanks, I appreciate your help in finding the errors. I guess that's what happens when a couple trumpet players try to "revise" a trombone book, eh?

Fortunately, the initial "test" run of these books wasn't huge, and we're just about to do a "real thing" run. I will make the corrections noted in this forum (thank you, everybody), and also the part about the Advanced Form Studies in G . . . whoops! It now says F.

I'm also tempted to change all the tempo markings to words only, no metronome markings. This varies from day to day, I have found, depending on how much time I have/want to devote to these routines. Sometimes I do them as quickly as q = 80, and sometimes as slow as q = 50.

Your mileage may vary, too!

[Hornman805]

Let us know when you do the "real thing" run. I'm very interested but have purposely waited. Shows you who your real friends are, huh? LOL J/K

[sanfranboner]

The "errors" are tiny and any halfway intelligent musician would immediately compensate.  The thing with the key signatures is no different than that found on some jazz charts - the first line has the key signature (always key of Bb) but the following lines only have the clef.  I wouldn't hold off buying the book based on a couple typos.  If you know how the horn works, you'll have no problems, so to speak.

[king5b]

Thanks to this forum I have my pencil out and am making corrections to my copy of the book.  Most first edition printing have some errors.  I'm still finding errors in another great book "The Complete Practice Book" by Paul Tanner.  This has been printed several times and there are still errors. (This is another book that I highly recommend.) I wouldn't wait until the next printing to buy "The Reinhardt Routines"  because of the few errors that have been pointed out.

[ssherwick]

The great thing about modern publishing methods is that once a fix in a document is made and saved it's there permanently. In the old days they had to totally reset entire pages which allowed even more errors to creep in while fixes were made.

Also print runs can be much shorter than before, one can print as little as 25-50 copies and still make a reasonable return on investment as costs are lower and turn around times are faster.

Therefore I am never embarrassed to mention print errors to an author as the document WILL get progressively better and better. Pretty much there's no reason for a author NOT to fix the masters anymore