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The Trombone ForumRecent Posts
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 1 
 on: Today at 06:23 PM 
Started by harrison.t.reed - Last post by M.R.Tenor
OTOH, my experience is that I also have to be much more careful with my dynamic on a close mic placement. That tends to handicap me a little and if I am not careful, I can end up with a mono-dynamic recording, which I think is boring. As soft as I want to play is okay, but as loud as I want can be a problem if I over-do it when the mic is very, very close. Knowing this, I will "cheat" and edit my solo track to add gain in places when I want a louder dynamic. But it isn't quite the same effect as playing louder.

With the RE20? That mic is capable of such high levels that they don't even feel the need to rate it.  Pant

But seriously, you won't get distortion from that mic, just adjust the gain on the interface. Before you play, go ahead and blow some loud middle register stuff to set the levels. A little low is fine, we're not battling a high noise floor. There's no harm in having to turn up the gain on the whole solo part a little

 2 
 on: Today at 06:22 PM 
Started by Geordie - Last post by Geezerhorn
I try to make music when I play the trombone. And in my day job, I help people overcome problems.

Not necessarily. Even if it were true, why deliberately choose something that may hasten that demise, or directly lead to a decreased quality of life? I want to enjoy my life and play trombone, and not have to choose between a product that might be bad for me just so I can play music. 

Of course there are. Live well, eat well, do well, be nice, share, take no more than your fair share, do no harm... to yourself or others...

Okay. I have a list of things I try to avoid as well. I believe some have a large list while others blissfully enjoy having no list at all. I sometimes envy the former who can keep that balance while I secretly admire the latter. lol

At my age, my list is shrinking. I am almost to the place where I wouldn't hesitate to do some select HAZMAT work with very little, if any protection - like asbestos removal. By the time I get cancer, I will probably be dead anyway. I believe the elderly Japanese who went in to clean up Fukushima felt the same way.  Clever

Consequently, "life-time warranties" don't mean nearly as much to me as they used to.  Amazed

If Lemon Pledge is on your list or you think it should be on others' lists, I'm fine with that - as long as I can still buy it if I want to for MY use.  ;-)

...Geezer

 3 
 on: Today at 06:17 PM 
Started by ShermanKNTO - Last post by ShermanKNTO
I just saw a Casabella (brand name) vent cleaning brush meant for cleaning lint from dryers or home radiators. It looked like to me a perfect brush to clean out your hand slide. It has soft nylon bristles, about 28 inches long.
https://www.amazon.com/Casabella-44136-Brush-Translucent-Handle/dp/B002IT2VUI

Would it be better than using a snake for cleaning? Maybe you could put polish your outer slide easier with this.

Was wondering if anybody has used it for cleaning out the inside of the inner and/or outer handslide. Would this be a useful alternative cleaning tool for Trombonists?


 4 
 on: Today at 06:12 PM 
Started by harrison.t.reed - Last post by Geezerhorn
Keep it simple is really some of the best advice.

Recording in stereo is only going to pick up more of the room sound. If I were you, I'd be more worried about treating the lower frequency resonances in the room, and using a closer mic placement.

You might consider the frequency response of your mic, and how the natural EQ can accentuate or de exaggerate certain aspects. Some mics that have a rolled off lower end response are well suited to closer micing where the bass frequencies from the source are stronger than they would be at natural listening distance. Nobody listening to you live would be standing 8 to 16" from your bell, but the way the ear in combination with the brain hears subtlety in trombone "vowels" and "consonants" as being tone and articulation, is different than how the mic picks it up. Ears have selective listening and can focus in on certain aspects, whereas the mic is more "dumb". This is why the treble is boosted on most vocal mics, that presence and clarity is what the ear hones in on to comprehend speech. If you've ever heard a recording where someone is talking in a really reverberant room kind of far away and it just sounds like mud where you would be able to understand them fairly well in person, it's because of this phenomenon.

You should work on your understanding of your reverb settings to create the sound space with Altiverb. You have to compensate for your mic, at the position you placed it, with your trombone sound in front of the mic. The defaults or presets are a good starting point, but they won't get you all the way there. The handful of studios I've been in were all pretty live rooms, and the natural sound was used when it was useful. But it was worked out with mic placement when it wasn't desired, which is most of the time.

The closer you place the mic, the more detail of articulation and subtlety in nuance you can pick up. Bill Watrous' playing is ALL about nuance, and with the mic right up in the bell, every thing in his playing can be communicated clearly. In one of Mike Lake's videos, he refers to it as more "intimate" closer up. A lot of vocalists and voice artists describe the effect from closer micing with that word as well.

Your recording also has to be approached differently depending on what it's ending up as. You shouldn't mic for solo etudes the same as you would for over an accompaniment or backing track. You have to take into account the rest of the music and the space it occupies and where you want to fit into it.

Any sound source sounds different EQ wise at different distances, and different angles due to the directional nature of most sound sources, and the differential between fall off of low and high frequencies with distance, and the layout of the space. Low frequencies defract more easily than high frequencies, which mostly reflect. This affects how you hear the performer when you're at a concert, and you should take these things into account for determining your desired recording results.

I'm not quite sure what you don't like about your recordings so far, or what you want to change. You have to have a clear idea of what you want before you can place a value on the different changes or suggestions that we can offer. Maybe give us an idea of recordings that you'd like to emulate sonically and we can probably help more.

The only stereo recording style I think would produce usable results on a single source like trombone is something like mid-side processing or different mics and/or mic placements where the blend between the two can be used as an effect to get a more in depth sound or capture different information. I don't think stereo is worth going for in a home studio.


I like the concept of two different mics in a stereo recording. I think I used the term, a second opinion.

I think recording in stereo is useful to me for the above reason and b/c I can hear my solo track connecting better to the stereo backing track when I mix them down. It's subtle, but it's there and I'll take any incremental improvement I can get.

Good info; especially about mic proximity and intimacy, or nuance as you mentioned!   Good! 

OTOH, my experience is that I also have to be much more careful with my dynamic on a close mic placement. That tends to handicap me a little and if I am not careful, I can end up with a mono-dynamic recording, which I think is boring. As soft as I want to play is okay, but as loud as I want can be a problem if I over-do it when the mic is very, very close. Knowing this, I will "cheat" and edit my solo track to add gain in places when I want a louder dynamic. But it isn't quite the same effect as playing louder.

...Geezer

 5 
 on: Today at 06:11 PM 
Started by Geordie - Last post by kbiggs
Oh, c'mon now guys. Everything we make either stinks or makes noise.

I try to make music when I play the trombone. And in my day job, I help people overcome problems.

And all products will ultimately lead to our demise.

Not necessarily. Even if it were true, why deliberately choose something that may hasten that demise, or directly lead to a decreased quality of life? I want to enjoy my life and play trombone, and not have to choose between a product that might be bad for me just so I can play music. 

But perhaps there are bigger issues in our lives than a little Lemon Pledge usage?

Of course there are. Live well, eat well, do well, be nice, share, take no more than your fair share, do no harm... to yourself or others...

 6 
 on: Today at 05:55 PM 
Started by Paul Martin - Last post by Rockymountaintrombone
You may never be taken seriously as a trombone player again.

Cheers

Stewbones

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Jim Scott

 7 
 on: Today at 05:37 PM 
Started by harrison.t.reed - Last post by M.R.Tenor
Keep it simple is really some of the best advice.

Recording in stereo is only going to pick up more of the room sound. If I were you, I'd be more worried about treating the lower frequency resonances in the room, and using a closer mic placement.

You might consider the frequency response of your mic, and how the natural EQ can accentuate or de exaggerate certain aspects. Some mics that have a rolled off lower end response are well suited to closer micing where the bass frequencies from the source are stronger than they would be at natural listening distance. Nobody listening to you live would be standing 8 to 16" from your bell, but the way the ear in combination with the brain hears subtlety in trombone "vowels" and "consonants" as being tone and articulation, is different than how the mic picks it up. Ears have selective listening and can focus in on certain aspects, whereas the mic is more "dumb". This is why the treble is boosted on most vocal mics, that presence and clarity is what the ear hones in on to comprehend speech. If you've ever heard a recording where someone is talking in a really reverberant room kind of far away and it just sounds like mud where you would be able to understand them fairly well in person, it's because of this phenomenon.

You should work on your understanding of your reverb settings to create the sound space with Altiverb. You have to compensate for your mic, at the position you placed it, with your trombone sound in front of the mic. The defaults or presets are a good starting point, but they won't get you all the way there. The handful of studios I've been in were all pretty live rooms, and the natural sound was used when it was useful. But it was worked out with mic placement when it wasn't desired, which is most of the time.

The closer you place the mic, the more detail of articulation and subtlety in nuance you can pick up. Bill Watrous' playing is ALL about nuance, and with the mic right up in the bell, every thing in his playing can be communicated clearly. In one of Mike Lake's videos, he refers to it as more "intimate" closer up. A lot of vocalists and voice artists describe the effect from closer micing with that word as well.

Your recording also has to be approached differently depending on what it's ending up as. You shouldn't mic for solo etudes the same as you would for over an accompaniment or backing track. You have to take into account the rest of the music and the space it occupies and where you want to fit into it.

Any sound source sounds different EQ wise at different distances, and different angles due to the directional nature of most sound sources, and the differential between fall off of low and high frequencies with distance, and the layout of the space. Low frequencies defract more easily than high frequencies, which mostly reflect. This affects how you hear the performer when you're at a concert, and you should take these things into account for determining your desired recording results.

I'm not quite sure what you don't like about your recordings so far, or what you want to change. You have to have a clear idea of what you want before you can place a value on the different changes or suggestions that we can offer. Maybe give us an idea of recordings that you'd like to emulate sonically and we can probably help more.

The only stereo recording style I think would produce usable results on a single source like trombone is something like mid-side processing or different mics and/or mic placements where the blend between the two can be used as an effect to get a more in depth sound or capture different information. I don't think stereo is worth going for in a home studio.

 8 
 on: Today at 05:24 PM 
Started by Whitbey - Last post by Matt K
Concerning your hard drive woes: Windows pushes out driver updates to keep hardware updated, but it doesn't write those itself. It relies on the vendors of those hardware to write the drivers and to send it updates. It simply puts them in the system.  If Toshiba (which I believe makes their own hard drives) pushes out something on an older device but says it covers the gamut of devices, then Windows will push out that update!  The best thing to do in those circumstances is to tell the device manager to use an older driver and to not update it.  I've encountered this problem with a network adapter recently.  Vendor was too aggressive in pushing out updates and it broke it!  Also possibly intentionally so that you'd buy their newer hardware  :/

 9 
 on: Today at 05:21 PM 
Started by slide advantage - Last post by robcat2075
It might be all Kaepernick's fault (a Rasmussen poll says so!), but if the NFL players beating their family members, murdering their friends, the brain damage from concussions, the preposterous salaries and the taxpayer-funded welfare for rich team owners hasn't hurt the NFL, what are the chances that a guy sitting for the national anthem has done it? A guy who is not on anyone's team now.

But the NFL was in decline before anyone knew waht a Kaepernick wasI'll note that TV ratings for professional sports have been declining for years. I suspect that the NFL has finally reached the over-saturation point that Baseball did.




 10 
 on: Today at 05:18 PM 
Started by Zandit75 - Last post by Zandit75
I've played it. As I remember there's nothing particularly high in it but there are some large jumps in both directions. Breath control is also a challenge as there are some very long phrases. I'll have a look for it later and see if I can fill in a few more details.

Thanks Mate, that is most appreciated!

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