The Trombone Forum

Horns, Gear, and Equipment => Instruments => Topic started by: altoid on Aug 22, 2017, 08:45AM



Title: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: altoid on Aug 22, 2017, 08:45AM
If you own or play one regularly, I'd appreciate any feedback re:
-ergonomics (left hand in particular)
-7th position usability
-slide action
-quality of construction, including the factory case

and....

What do you think of the sound?
Do you play the gold or yellow brass bell version?
How does it compare with other smallish (<.500"), single bore altos you've played? (e.g., Bach 39, JP Rath 236)

Thanks!





Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: heinz gries on Aug 22, 2017, 12:22PM
i once had have a Kuehnl & Hoyer Slokar alto. The slide action was great, but no secure 7th place.
Intonation was great too. Real good craftsmanship.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: conn88plyr on Aug 23, 2017, 05:04AM
i once had have a Kuehnl & Hoyer Slokar alto. The slide action was great, but no secure 7th place.
Intonation was great too. Real good craftsmanship.
I currently play on a Slokar.  The Williams-style curved handslide brace fits comfortably in my hand and after removing the spring in the cork barrel I have a usable 7th position.  As Heinz said great intonation and still in beautiful shape after over 15 years of use...


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: altoid on Sep 05, 2017, 04:12PM
Still looking for accounts of experience with the 122.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: cozzagiorgi on Sep 05, 2017, 10:48PM
I have played several of them and all were great!
The have a true altonsound in my opinion. Strangely enough i feel they are easier to play thab most altos if you come from tenor. Dont know why.


They are a good example of german quality. Not up there with glassl and thein, but k&h is in my opinion comparable to shires and edwards reg craftmanship.

Btw, i have one to much i could sell if you are interested.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: altoid on Sep 06, 2017, 02:07AM
I have played several of them and all were great!
The have a true altonsound in my opinion. Strangely enough i feel they are easier to play thab most altos if you come from tenor. Dont know why.


They are a good example of german quality. Not up there with glassl and thein, but k&h is in my opinion comparable to shires and edwards reg craftmanship.

Btw, i have one to much i could sell if you are interested.

Thank you. Is 7th position usable?



Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: cozzagiorgi on Sep 06, 2017, 02:29AM
Usable yes. But you will have to work on it a little to get used to it.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: altoid on Sep 06, 2017, 03:15PM
Usable yes. But you will have to work on it a little to get used to it.

Can you get low E and A in tune without fear of losing the slide off the end? I have about half an inch left on my JP Rath 236 which works well enough.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: harrison.t.reed on Sep 06, 2017, 05:50PM
Get the Slokar alto with Bb valve. No worries about 7th.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: heinz gries on Sep 07, 2017, 01:47AM
perhabs a bit out of topic.
I've noticed that many lower notes sound better on my alto when i play them
in outsite slide positions.
For example:
 :bassclef: b :space5: :trebleclef: :lowerspace1: :space1: on 6th posisition.
 :bassclef: :line5: :trebleclef: b :lowerspace1:  :trebleclef: :line1: on 7th position.
 :trebleclef:  b  :line1: on the 5th position.
 


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: altoid on Sep 07, 2017, 02:21AM
Get the Slokar alto with Bb valve. No worries about 7th.

Real trombones don't have valves.  :)


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: cozzagiorgi on Sep 07, 2017, 02:54AM
Frankly i never really got why you'd use 7th on the alto. Alto literature really rarely uses  7th.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: altoid on Sep 07, 2017, 01:03PM
There's a lot more available to alto than the standard literature...  like everything else. Having 7th makes an alto a proper trombone.

Frankly i never really got why you'd use 7th on the alto. Alto literature really rarely uses  7th.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: Matt K on Sep 07, 2017, 01:39PM
The Bb attachment really is wonderful, at least I really liked the Conn 36H I had one on. Though I did sell it to fund a bass isnce I actually like, gig on it  :/ Although a trill valve also would technically give you a comfortable extra position too.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: harrison.t.reed on Sep 07, 2017, 01:58PM
Bb attachment makes an alto into a far more versatile instrument.

As for that elitist comment about valves, an alto trombone as it is today really isn't a real trombone. It's a modern invention. Go play the sackbut if you want to talk smack about what a real trombone is, cuz a straight modern alto is already inaccurate, fake, and cheating.

If you're gonna cheat with a modern alto, cheat all the way.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: Rockymountaintrombone on Sep 07, 2017, 02:07PM
A nice feature on the Conn 36H AND on the 34H (no attachment) is that the part of the lower outer slide that is above the slide grip (the part that disappears below your left hand when you come into 1st position) is longer than on most other slides. The shorter corresponding part on the upper slide gives you the same visual cues for where 6th and 7th positions are, but the added length on the lower slide helps prevent that uncentered feeling that you can get in 7th position on an alto. I think it helps to prevent slight air leakage, and adds some stability to the slide action out there. More trombone makers should copy that design - I'm sure Lindberg had something to do with that when he got Conn to re-design their old 35H Altos and start making an alto again.

Jim Scott


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: harrison.t.reed on Sep 07, 2017, 02:09PM
Why wouldn't they have both tubes that long though? I never understood that.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: Rockymountaintrombone on Sep 07, 2017, 04:27PM
I like the shorter one up top so you see the stocking of the upper inner slide when you're in 7th position. It just looks familiar - the same as when you're playing tenor trombone. While no one should judge their tuning on the trombone by visual cues alone, it is still helpful - particularly when learning the alto, or when going back and forth between alto/tenor. You still need to do your scales with tuner and drones, etc., but it does speed up the process of getting comfortable on the horn.

Jim Scott


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: altoid on Sep 07, 2017, 04:39PM
Bb attachment makes an alto into a far more versatile instrument.

As for that elitist comment about valves, an alto trombone as it is today really isn't a real trombone. It's a modern invention. Go play the sackbut if you want to talk smack about what a real trombone is, cuz a straight modern alto is already inaccurate, fake, and cheating.

If you're gonna cheat with a modern alto, cheat all the way.

So...

I ask specific questions about a specific trombone in a thread with a specific subject heading. In typical TTF (e.g., harrison.t.reed) fashion, you answer questions that were not asked. Whether or not your need to insert your two cents is a form of self-aggrandizement is something only you can determine, but we've seen this before. You then get bent out of shape about a tongue-in-cheek comment and respond in a truly elitist manner. Get over yourself. Your sage advice is not always required. Or relevant.


Title: Re: Kuhnl & Hoyer 122 alto
Post by: harrison.t.reed on Sep 07, 2017, 07:21PM
My answer did specifically address one of your biggest concerns, using a very similar instrument from the same manufacturer. My antics have been going on on this forum for over ten years, so it might seem new to you, having joined a month ago, but it isn't anything new or anything to worry about. I'm not so bad. I'm even serious occasionally

The Horn Guys carry K&H. They have a 7 day return policy, so you could playtest one easily, which is way more useful than any TTF advice would be. How about playtesting one?