The Trombone Forum

Horns, Gear, and Equipment => Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance => Topic started by: EWadie99 on Jan 11, 2018, 04:12PM



Title: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: EWadie99 on Jan 11, 2018, 04:12PM
My school's bass trombone has been having abnormally out of tuned playing and it is really worrying. :eek:  This bass in particular is a Benge 290.  Also note, I know the sound isn't great but I haven't played this horn since sophomore year and I'm currently a senior with a bass of my own.  Here are the videos in question:
https://youtu.be/-QY7M6DirFY
https://youtu.be/VEMEfJkjKBI

Any ideas? 

Edit: in the second video it actually did change the playability of the horn after re-watching the video.  Here it is:
Open: Eb
First valve: G
Second Valve: F
Both: Bb


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: Gabe Langfur on Jan 11, 2018, 04:40PM
The valve linkages are strung incorrectly.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: Burgerbob on Jan 11, 2018, 04:44PM
Yup, your valves are already engaged. The valves may be 90 degrees off as they are hooked up, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how the linkage could be put on that way. Odd problem.

Are the F and Gb cores switched? The keying on the spindle may be 90 degrees different, so even with everything strung up correctly they won't work.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: wgwbassbone on Jan 12, 2018, 06:49AM
Interesting. On the video link it states that the horn just came back from the repair shop? If so that's tragic but it should be returned by the band director for a fix. But if that's true I wouldn't trust that repair shop to clean my mouthpiece.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: boneagain on Jan 12, 2018, 11:39AM
Can you post a photo somewhere with a closeup of the linkages and stringing?


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: mr.deacon on Jan 12, 2018, 11:40AM
Interesting. On the video link it states that the horn just came back from the repair shop? If so that's tragic but it should be returned by the band director for a fix. But if that's true I wouldn't trust that repair shop to clean my mouthpiece.
There's always a catch-22 with school horns :evil:


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: wgwbassbone on Jan 12, 2018, 12:18PM
There's always a catch-22 with school horns :evil:

What happened with this horn is inexcusable.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: Gabe Langfur on Jan 12, 2018, 02:44PM
What happened with this horn is inexcusable.

I know a French horn player who got used to playing primarily on the Bb side because his switch valve had been strung incorrectly when he was learning to play. As a young professional he was still playing the same way.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: mr.deacon on Jan 12, 2018, 03:08PM
I know a French horn player who got used to playing primarily on the Bb side because his switch valve had been strung incorrectly when he was learning to play. As a young professional he was still playing the same way.
That's actually a super interesting story! I wonder if he still plays that way?


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: Rockymountaintrombone on Jan 12, 2018, 05:07PM
There are a few French Horn professionals who have converted traditional F/B flat horns to work this way. Most high horn players (1st & 3rd players) spend more time on the B flat side of the horn.

Jim Scott


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: EWadie99 on Jan 12, 2018, 05:15PM
I've sent it to the repair shop and it actually isn't bad as it seems.  It turned out that it wasn't restrung correctly.  That's the downside of string linkage IMO although besides that, the 290 is a great playing horn compared to the condition it was in my sophomore year.  Very underrated bass IMHO and probably the only few independent basses I like... just my opinion.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: boneagain on Jan 12, 2018, 05:16PM
I know a French horn player who got used to playing primarily on the Bb side because his switch valve had been strung incorrectly when he was learning to play. As a young professional he was still playing the same way.

As Rockymountain notes, pro's have been doing this for years... long enough that a number of horns are set up so you can easily string to "stand" in either pitch.  Makes life confusing for a novice who picks a horn "just like ...." then runs into fingerings that don't match the book  :eek:


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: boneagain on Jan 12, 2018, 05:17PM
I've sent it to the repair shop and it actually isn't bad as it seems.  It turned out that it wasn't restrung correctly.  That's the downside of string linkage IMO although besides that, the 290 is a great playing horn compared to the condition it was in my sophomore year.  Very underrated bass IMHO and probably the only few independent basses I like... just my opinion.

so, what was it?


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: davdud101 on Jan 14, 2018, 08:27PM
Yeah E.... got me so curious afater a whole page of a thread and two videos and then there no payoff!!! 
:D :D :evil:


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: Blowero on Jan 15, 2018, 01:02AM
There are a few French Horn professionals who have converted traditional F/B flat horns to work this way. Most high horn players (1st & 3rd players) spend more time on the B flat side of the horn.

Jim Scott

I asked a great French Horn player/ repair tech why so many horns are set up with F as the default key. He said, "Because players are still deluding themselves that they use the F side more than the Bb side."  :D


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: BillO on Jan 15, 2018, 06:52AM
so, what was it?

It turned out that it wasn't restrung correctly.

How did you miss that?


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: BillO on Jan 15, 2018, 06:56AM
That's the downside of string linkage IMO ...
Really?

Would it not actually be the downside to using that repair tech?  My 14 year old daughter used to be able to re-string her valve correctly by herself.  For an alleged instrument repair person to foul it up is unforgivable and no fault of the valve design ...  IMO.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: davdud101 on Jan 15, 2018, 08:50AM
How did you miss that?

 :amazed: :amazed: Whoops, I read that wrong as " It turned out it wasn't strung incorrectly "

I also figured there couldn't have been any other possibility so when I saw that (and read it wrong) it really had me curious lol. Thanks for highlighting it, Bill.  :good:


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: wgwbassbone on Jan 15, 2018, 10:28AM
Really?

Would it not actually be the downside to using that repair tech?  My 14 year old daughter used to be able to re-string her valve correctly by herself.  For an alleged instrument repair person to foul it up is unforgivable and no fault of the valve design ...  IMO.

Agreed. A properly strung linkage works great. This mishap is completely on Mr Fix it guy.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: boneagain on Jan 15, 2018, 04:45PM
Agreed. A properly strung linkage works great. This mishap is completely on Mr Fix it guy.

I just stared at a 290 for some time this last Saturday.  I have a REALLY hard time imagining how the tech mis-strung it.  Must have been a special, unique talent.  Wish we had a picture.  That would have been a classic.

Wonder if this is the same tech responsible for this horn "... is great playing compared to the condition it was in ... sophmore year..."?


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: EWadie99 on Feb 08, 2018, 05:44PM
Just wanted to update that the tuning is back to normal!  But the linkage of the second valve broke off... our school's poor Benge. :cry:  I do have special plans for it, to find a good mouthpiece for it (it didn't work well with my Schilke piece :/ I mean it still played okay but it wiggled alot) with a longer shank and i personally found that our bass played better with larger pieces, don't know why TBH.  And of necessary, I might send it to a different tech to maybe convert the linkage (nothing against string linkage but ours on the second valve just isn't good) so, long days without update but to sum it up, tuning is back to normal!


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: mr.deacon on Feb 08, 2018, 05:56PM
I do have special plans for it, to find a good mouthpiece for it (it didn't work well with my Schilke piece :/ I mean it still played okay but it wiggled alot)
That's probably because people have twisted their mouthpieces in the receiver over the years and stretched it. Getting a new mouthpiece won't fix that.


Title: Re: School's Bass Trombone Having Tuning Issues
Post by: Matt K on Feb 08, 2018, 06:06PM
Just wanted to update that the tuning is back to normal!  But the linkage of the second valve broke off... our school's poor Benge. :cry:  I do have special plans for it, to find a good mouthpiece for it (it didn't work well with my Schilke piece :/ I mean it still played okay but it wiggled alot) with a longer shank and i personally found that our bass played better with larger pieces, don't know why TBH.  And of necessary, I might send it to a different tech to maybe convert the linkage (nothing against string linkage but ours on the second valve just isn't good) so, long days without update but to sum it up, tuning is back to normal!

Your linkage is probably out of proper geometry. String linkages should be pretty quick... in my experience quicker than mechanical unless you've really well lubrciated the joints of it.  Have you tried lubricating the pivot point? That is something that also seems to be neglected.