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1087170 Posts in 71996 Topics- by 19241 Members - Latest Member: alberto
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1  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Playing with multiple mouthpieces - Am I doing myself harm? on: Today at 09:17 AM
The Rimnsky-Korsakov has a high F in the cadenza. If you can play that on a Schilke 59, you are the man.

It does??
2  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Yesterday at 04:10 AM
OP still hasn't said whether or not the oboe's tuner was set to A442. If it was, it's not inaccurate, just tuned sharper.
3  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 19, 2017, 05:54PM
A bit off-topic and newcomer's question, but I have always wondered. I have never played in symphony orchestra, only wind bands. If the orchestra tunes to A, but most of the brass instruments' closed pitch is in Bb, how do people in the brass section know that their instruments' closed pitch (where other tuning slides positions are derived from) is in tune, not just the 2nd valve tuning slide (or in case of trombone, the slide position)? Is it done entirely by ear?

And why doesn't the oboe gives A for strings and Bb for the brass section? (And maybe F for the horns and F tubas?) Theoretically the oboe should be in-tune for its entire range, isn't it?

Trombone should not tune the Bb to a closed position, but instead to a useable one a few cm out (hotly debated, but just my experience based opinion). That said, everyone should come to a rehearsal already well practiced in tuning. They should know if the orchestra is A440 or A442, and practice that way at home. They should also be able to recognize if the rehearsal hall is warmer or cooler than where they usually play. So, they should come pretty well warmed up and tuned.

The tuning A should feel familiar and right, since the player already tuned previously. It can be tested against other notes.

In the end, as long as both a Bb (or D above it) and B can be played in tune with the group, all other notes are also in tune. Tuning surprises mean you didn't practice with the group or someone needs to be fired.
4  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 19, 2017, 03:30PM
Sorry, man, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.  My post wasn't directed at yours (which is why I didn't quote it), but was a tongue in cheek reference to an entirely different thread with some of the same punters involved.

That must be me!  :D

It was and still is a joke man. If you were referring to the "tone doesn't doesn't matter" joke, poking fun at the sad excuse for jazz I hear on the radio daily. But it was also dead serious.
5  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Things you use to could have sight read! on: Nov 19, 2017, 01:47PM
I used to coulda sight read but sadly I have now played every music note written ever. Having had played all twelve, there are no new ones left.
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Need Suggestions for Alto Trombone Mouthpiece on: Nov 19, 2017, 01:35PM
Jin bao works better if you don't touch the tuning slide. Most altos do
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 19, 2017, 01:34PM
Those who understand need no explanation. For those who donít understand, no explanation will suffice.

That's why I agreed with your nevermind
8  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 19, 2017, 11:54AM
I agree... nevermind lol.
9  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Need Suggestions for Alto Trombone Mouthpiece on: Nov 19, 2017, 10:31AM
It looks just like the Slokar horn. A better horn would probably help out a lot!
10  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Military/NATO Alphabet on: Nov 19, 2017, 07:21AM
"Foxtrot" is quaint.

I'm surprised they havn't replaced the three syllable words with shorter ones.

"Whiskey" will get a parent complaint.  Bad dog.  No Biscuits.

You think I'm kidding.

It's not about the starting letter so much as being able to always identify the word representing the letter. One syllable words can easily be garbled away on radios that really aren't any better than the ones from WW2.

The NATO alphabet makes it easy to recognize letters by using weird words. "Fox" can be eaten up by the radio, but "--xtrot" will still be understood even if the soft F sound gets eaten up.

'INDIA' is three syllables, but it is unmistakable. Saying "'I' as in 'is'" is not as clear.

It seems weird and funny but when you're actually having to give a 9 line medevac order over an ASIP, and the guy on the other end gets it in one go, you think "ah, I get it".

So if you're working with kids and not over a radio, it doesn't matter. You can say "letter i, as in 'I'".
11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 19, 2017, 07:05AM
Thanks Sven
12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 18, 2017, 10:10PM
Pythagorean tuning is a form of just intonation.

not quite as applied to melodic lines. It makes scales and melodies sound better, not necessarily intervals and chords.
13  Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members / Re: Urbie Green GoFund on: Nov 18, 2017, 04:03PM
Oh well
14  Creation and Performance / Music, Concerts and Recordings / Re: Music for baroque trio for harpsichord, cello, and trombone on: Nov 18, 2017, 03:44PM
What these guys play is the gold standard for older chamber music with a trombone thrown in.

http://caecilia-concert.com/
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 18, 2017, 02:21PM
Off topic, but anyone who says you never play in equal temperment probably hasn't played with a rock band, or a jazz band that uses electric instruments. Just intonation is NEVER appropriate for those groups. Pythagorean tuning is though. The singer will automatically do it without knowing they are. Soloists and melodic lines can use it too

Also, technically not a good idea to use true equal temperment (as in, tuner perfect) with accoustic pianos, since they use stretched tuning and you often have to take that in to consideration. Also not a good idea to use just intonation when playing a solo with a modern piano, since it can't do that. Luckily, as the soloist, you are likely not lingering on any thirds or anything like that, and if you do, you match the piano rather than have him/her drop notes off the page. The piano is much more likely to be playing thirds that are not part of the melodic line. The solo line should use Pythagorean tuning, which will sound just fine against an equal tempered chord, but will not sound right if you are playing the line in unison with the piano.

Phil Myers (I think? It was one of the big name horn players) suggests to always play in equal temperment and only adjust when absolutely dictated by the music.

This German guy also lays it out hard:

Intonation: Which System to Use When:

http://youtu.be/QaYOwIIvgHg
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 17, 2017, 06:38PM
When the tuner reads flat, raise the pitch to match the tuner. It makes sense when you work out the geometry.

The tuner reads flat if it is tuned sharp, but OP said the tuner was flat. A tuner tuned sharp to A442 would read A440 as flat, so you push in. Based on the confusion over just this, I think that the OPs orchestra has people with tuners out, not listening, and some tuners are 440 and others are at 442.
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 17, 2017, 03:19PM
When I push my tuning slide in a half inch my ear and hand wants to fix it. The other day I took my pitch pipe up to the oboe players tuner. That tuner was flat while the two viola tuners one row up were right on.   

Also, if the tuner is flat, why are you pushing in? Or is it that it shows the pitch pipe is flat? It's probably set to A442
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 17, 2017, 03:08PM
That is my problem. You sit there and wait for the entrance and my ear says the note is where it should be and they are a mile off. When I push my tuning slide in a half inch my ear and hand wants to fix it. The other day I took my pitch pipe up to the oboe players tuner. That tuner was flat while the two viola tuners one row up were right on.

I figure if I could understand the variations then I could say something to the conductor politely.   

The problem described here is not about tuners, but about not being able to match pitch. While waiting for an entrance your brain and ears should be telling you your entrance pitch as dictated by the ensemble around you, not your internal or tuner based absolute. And if during tuning the oboe gives you a wonky A, and the strings and everyone else matches the wonky A, but you either know the drone tone from 440 or are using a 440 tuner and not matching the wonky A with everyone else, then you are not matching pitch.

You should tune to drones to help you hear and match pitch (or play intoned intervals) -- not to memorize what a given pitch sounds like.

So, again, same solution, but change your drones to A444, A438, A442, etc, and just get used to it. Pitch changes, and you play one of the instruments that is easiest to match anyone with.
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Tuner accuracy on: Nov 17, 2017, 12:52PM
Use a drone to develop your ears in the practice room, and when the oboe plays, definitely don't use a tuner. You have at least two slides and both of your ears. That said, usually tuners that use vibration rather than a mic input are more accurate. Overtones and other musicians will cause havoc with a mic based tuner.
20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Need Suggestions for Alto Trombone Mouthpiece on: Nov 17, 2017, 12:22PM
There are plenty of alto mouthpieces being made., and none of the mouthpieces you listed are those.  You should try those. The mouthpiece makers know more about it than anyone, and the artists they made them for are happy about that. FWIW, a Conn 7C comes with the Conn altos, and I've found that the artist type alto mouthpieces are head and shoulders above standard small tenor designs. If out of the Oft, or Bousfield, or Alessi, or Lindberg, or Friedman, or Slokar alto mouthpieces you find nothing that works, it might be the trombone or your approach to playing it.
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