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983731 Posts in 65211 Topics- by 16057 Members - Latest Member: jordanyunus
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61  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 16, 2015, 10:24AM
Yes, it is a word, and it means "members of the laity," not "unbelievers."




It can also mean non-religious. And these days it means a member of the National secular society.
62  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 16, 2015, 10:17AM
"Hideous hellbound infidel" works fine for me. I was objecting as an English speaker, not as an atheist. I liked it better when large numbers of lightly educated people were completely unaware of the word 'secular'.
seculars is a word. Lightly educated?
63  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 16, 2015, 10:00AM
"Seculars." Ugh.
Do you prefer another moniker?  Non believers? atheists?
64  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 10:45PM
The Roman justice system gone foul is as much to blame for the crucifixion as anyone.  The Jewish leaders of that time clearly despised Jesus and they are not left off the hook in the New Testament-- they are accountable-- see Acts 2:23 and 4:9-12 where the guilt of the leaders and the divine plan are woven together-- but they had no authority to inflict capital punishment.  The Roman governor Pilate allowed himself to be manipulated by those leaders for political advancement.  Hence, the classic Christian creeds say: "suffered under Pontius Pilate."  The Bible ultimately lays the blame on all of us because we are all guilty:  "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."-- Isaiah 53:6
Perfect.  Thanks John.
65  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 12:13PM
Interesting.  I wonder if anybody else has noticed.  This happened before the crucifixion, and does not make salvation contingent upon or related to crucifixion at all.  God sent his Son, and that's enough. 

Ah, c rap, I'm screwed. 
But Jesus 's death had to happen.
That's one thing I have never understood.   Jews getting upset that Catholics so to they  killed Jesus. It had to happen.   
66  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 10:18AM

Actually I'd argue that Hinduism is a step ahead in this particular game. They worship aspects of God which they personify into gods like a collective organism/a hive mind. They're just monotheists who have actually internalized the God is too big to comprehend schtick to which most monotheisms just do lip service.
Schitick?  Is that nescessary? It's certainly not brilliant.
67  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 10:12AM

I hate to keep stressing a single focused point like this (because to my mind it should be compeltely unnecessary), but the need is perpetually apparent.
 
This is, again, the self-imposed upper level basement (above-basement basement) I've been talking about. Even apologetics for the existence of God tend to ignore the issue as if the world would have to be different than it is if there were no god--as if the world couldn't exist as it does without one. This explains why so many see evolution and science as all about (or at least largely about) denying God. Those of us with access to our minds' basements can go there and sift through the various ideas and assumptions that are actually there, but when a believer closes it off he's got to sift through the next layer of perception as if it were the basement, and those first layers are where we find these kinds of premises (which are actually either conclusions based upon what's in the basement, or just presumptions).
because nobody can understand your writing.  It's not concrete and concise.  Its broad, leaving lots to interpretation and  boorish.
68  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 10:09AM
We can see the lineage of the Abrahamic religions reasonably clearly. But other religions don't fit the mould so well - the many gods of Hinduism, the lack of gods in Buddhism. What about extinct religions - the Norse, Greek and Roman pantheons for example? Were they onto the true situation too, or was their subsequent demise because they'd got it too wrong? How about modern religions - Scientology, with its crashed alien spaceship? Can all be mapped onto the Christian God?
To me, God is God.  How you understand it with spaceships and sacrifices and clothing, and laws, etc., is dependent on one faiths interpretation and beliefs.  The Catholics have been doing this for over 2,000 years and the Jews even longer. But I'm not Dave the theologian.  I'm Dave the dentist.
69  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 09:36AM
I don't read all your posts either.  They're mind numbing.  So that ^ means nothing to me.
70  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 09:30AM
Indeed - as I recall various churches have got quite competitive over the years regarding them holding the One True Version of the truth. But I can't recall what the religious branch that ronkny classifies himself under officially says on the subject, and was hoping he'd tell me.

The versions of "God" / god / gods / unordered supernatural entities found between the various religions out there strike me as pretty difficult to reconcile with each other in various ways. I'd be interested to know if serious theological effort has been put in to making this idea work.
We believe there is only one God in three persons.  Over religions dont believe Jesus was God and or don't believe in the Holy Spirit.  Same God though. Allah, Yaweh, YHVH. G_d. All the same God.
71  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 09:26AM
I don't quite follow how that's an answer to either question I asked in a narrative sense. Any chance you could explain for me?
read John's post below yours. Incomprehensible is a good description.
72  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 09:24AM

That's what a believer realizes if he doesn't lock off the basement though. A lot of believers move their basement to the ground floor, and many or them even go so far as to rease their memory of the basement.
this is a perfect example of why not many people respond to you.  You don't have to be cute with your writing style. "Basement"? "Ground floor"?   Hint; It doesn't make you sound smart. Makes you sound narcissistic.
73  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 09:17AM
So here I play the irritating child who's just discovered the joy of shouting out "Why?" to every answer they're given... Why is it so obvious that it "just is"? It isn't at all obvious to me, and I think I pay quite a bit of attention to the world.

Interesting. Is this a widely-held idea in Catholicism / Christianity / Abrahamic religions / all religions? It's intuitively reassuring and hence appealing, for sure. But do church hierarchies go for it?
You don't know what you don't know. Neither do I.  Faith.
74  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 09:10AM
Well, the early Israelites did not buy that at all.  Yahweh was THEIR God, but there were plenty of others.  The bible is full of references - those "high places" were altars to other Gods. 

It took thousands of years for monotheism to really take hold.

In the early days of the Christian church, it wasn't so simple.  Marcion, for example, denied that the wrathful OT God could possibly be the same as the loving NT God.  He thought there were two Gods with the OT God subordinate, IIRC.
Welcome to the 21st century
75  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 08:57AM

What I find even more amazing is when someone seems utterly oblivious to the notion that a deeply held belief may be false. I don't mean the notion that they might be mistaken--that at least a level up in the perceptual foundation. What I'm talking about is having a belief so encoded in the brain that it's part of the machine code behind the OS. Many people actually seem unable to ask themselves such fundamental questions. They can't see blatantly unchallenged assumptions because those are under the greatest depth of their awareness. Unfortunately sometimes, for some who have this going on, they deeply resent those questions being raised, which in those cases suggests the premature awareness basement is at least to some extent an act of will.
You seriously don't think religious people sometimes have doubts?  Of course we do. Some choose not to share those doubts.  Just like you.  Of course you have doubts.  You just won't admit it. Once again,  you really don't understand.
76  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 08:54AM
As so often here, we come upon a line of reasoning that doesn't seem to touch bottom. Here are a couple of questions that would cause me a lot of puzzlement in your shoes, if considered open-mindedly:

1) Why must there be a supernatural creating force at all?

2) Why must it be what you call "God"?

The first asks why any religion is needed. The second asks why one particular religion might be thought to be more accurate than another.
1. It's not that there must be.  It just is
2. God is God.  Interpreted by different religions.  The same god for all. God.
77  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: May 15, 2015, 07:32AM
Can you appreciate how fear based and self centered that must appear to a nonbeliever? 
Yes.  For good reason.
78  Practice Break / Polls / Re: Health Insurance on: May 13, 2015, 01:07PM
They might agree, but that doesn't make it true.  

I would say there is SOME effect from 1-3, little to none from 4, a tiny bit from 5.

Of much greater effect are an aging population, a highly technological approach to medicine, some level of lawsuit shyness causing unnecessary tests and procedures.  This is not a simple problem.  
How can you say none or only a little bit from 4 and 5?  Manual labor is on the decrease.  Type II diabetes is rising.  And obesity is also on the rise.
79  Practice Break / Polls / Re: Health Insurance on: May 13, 2015, 12:20PM

Partisanship from one comment on a point of blatantly faulty thinking no less ... one purely meta comment. That puts me on the board as a player, and in Ronkny's case that means I can be attached to someone to make their entire position automatically dismissible.
 
That speaks volumes to my initial criticism ... or rather the pattern behind it.
 
 --
 
I'll leave yous be though ... because there will be no possible acknowledgement or understanding of any of these kinds of issues here (rather there will only be one-sided acknowledgement and understanding), just derailment due to such a profound degree of obstinance (denial).
More nonsense.  With nothing to do with the topic.
80  Practice Break / Polls / Re: Health Insurance on: May 13, 2015, 12:03PM
If there were such a word as spewell, that might be a valid criticism.

I don't speak for BvB, but my comments have been pretty specific and dealt with the structural cause of high health care costs. You're looking for partisanship where there is none, because you don't understand the subject.
Hehe.  I understand it way more than you do.
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