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968650 Posts in 64255 Topics- by 15707 Members - Latest Member: RichardB
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61  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 15, 2014, 08:56AM
Some of the instances in the article were examples of general religious oppression and bigotry--for example, Christians are also widely discriminated against in some of the same Muslim-dominated countries that oppress atheists. And the public official who openly criticized his constituents who don't share his worship of Christ was equally bigoted against Jews and Muslims as against atheists.

But my takeaway from the article, and from Bob's response to it, is that religiously based bigotry against atheists is more mainstream than other forms of religious bigotry. If a municipality changed its policy on religious advertising for the purpose of preventing a Jewish or Mormon group from expressing itself, it might be viewed benignly by far fewer people.

Maybe atheists are a bunch of soreheads for not liking "In God We Trust" on currency. But if the only legal tender available to Jews said "Christ is our Savior" on coins and bills, or Catholics were asked to spend money that said, "The Pope is fake" would Bob be quite so blithe about saying, Get over it? I doubt it.  Bob, it's not a sign of enlightenment to stick up for your own kind while dismissing the sensibilities of others as trivial.

I noticed several posts in this thread referring to atheists as "a-holes." How many times in this forum would I get away with saying, "Catholics are a-holes" or "Jews are a-holes"? I've seen the acceptable behavior toward various groups change in my lifetime, and our grandchildren might well look at our current attitudes toward atheists as benighted. Or maybe not.
Be honest, pm, I said "many atheists".  You implied atheists in general.  There are Catholics that are a-holes too.  For other reasons. 
62  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 07, 2014, 02:42PM
This discussion is absolutely riveting.  Hello?
63  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 06, 2014, 03:23PM
Good example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect Tim was just talking about a bit back. Ronkny thinks he's just made a good argument. Instead he's not only used a straw man argument that's blatant even for him, but he's also clearly demonstrated some of the criticism I've aimed at him. What he thinks is a good argument is actually an argument against himself, but if the pattern holds he won't be able to recognize it in spite of how obvious it is (I don't get the sense he just denies it when this happens--he genuinely doesn't seem to understand even though he's clearly not actually that dense--it's not a smarts problem, it's an intellectual integrity issue--the integrity of his thought processes).
Are you discussing this with yourself? 
I put as little effort as possible responding to you because you're just not relevant.  If you were a real man you'd respond like an adult instead of trying to rally others to your pathetic, meaningless cause.  But you're not. Personally,  I think you just need a good ass kicking.  Go talk to someone within hearing distance and say what you type on this forum.  I'd love to see their reaction. :D
64  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 06, 2014, 02:12PM
"You should try to use your own material more. It may need a lot of work, but if all you do is to parrot others' stuff you'll never improve, and you really need to if you want to handle or even maybe present any actual rhetorical substance at all. That's the only way you're ever going to actually have any impact on anyone else's thinking (well, beyond humor anyway). The first thing you need to do is get control of your noodle so that you're not operating from a perpetual state of an emotionally hijacked intellect when you have any stake at all in the issue at hand."
65  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 05, 2014, 09:26AM
But think about it.

Suppose you're an atheist or a liberal Christian.

And every function you go to all day long rubs it in that you are a second class citizen, in subtle or unsubtle ways.

Each instance may be a minor irritation but they accumulate.

If you respond, it will be to the group doing the irritating.

In the US, that group is Christian.  I have never once been subject to a Muslim call for prayer, etc., in my working life in the US. 
Second class citizen?  I don't get it.  This hypersensitivity to peoples feelings is just silly.  I used to play on a Mormon softball team, I'm Catholic.  It was different but I didn't care.  Atheists think religious are nuts and they are out to prove they are right.  It's just mean spirited nonsense.  I went to school in NY. Almost half my class was Jewish.  We celebrated Hanukkah and Christmas.  Nobody had hurt feelings or indigestion.  We've become way hypersensitive in this country.  Even Chris Rock recently mentioned that you can't make fun of anyone anymore even his own race.  The pc-ness is out of control. Get over it.
66  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 05, 2014, 08:38AM
Bill Maher is quite critical of Christianity but nothing like the harsh way he went after Islam in his HBO show. 
Wow.  One.
67  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 05, 2014, 08:38AM
You should try to use your own material more. It may need a lot of work, but if all you do is to parrot others' stuff you'll never improve, and you really need to if you want to handle or even maybe present any actual rhetorical substance at all. That's the only way you're ever going to actually have any impact on anyone else's thinking (well, beyond humor anyway). The first thing you need to do is get control of your noodle so that you're not operating from a perpetual state of an emotionally hijacked intellect when you have any stake at all in the issue at hand.
Use my own material.  Like you do? Posts 684, 687, 693, 660, blah blah, blah.
Never improve.  I don't need improvement.  You, however, should look in the mirror.
Impact on anyone else's thinking?  Think I care? This is a trombone forum.
You must live in an alternative universe. 
68  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 07:45PM

No, you just haven't offered anything resembling something that could possibly be construed as credible information by anyone who's remotely objective about it.
 
Nobody's freaked out and no one will freak out, but no one will take nonsense seriously either. You can characterize it as freaking out if your priority is to make it easier to deceive yourself rather than to understand anything, but if you want to really understand you won't go to Fox News.
Excellent non response to the subject of my post.  You proved my point.  You freaked out by addressing the source rather than the topic.  Dont check the story.  Just pretend it never happened.  Easy way out.  That was easy.
Talk about intellectual dishonesty.  Or cowardice?
69  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 07:16PM
If they attacked Muslim holidays, they might wind up blown to pieces.  If they attacked kwanza, they would have the blacks against them.  They attack the safe targets.
Exactly.  Which makes them hypocrite's in addition to other descriptive nouns.
70  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 06:11PM
Well, a couple of reasons.

First of all, most atheists don't attack anyone.  They think religion is silly and not worth worrying about.

But there are some hardcore militant ones out there.

As far as I can tell, they attack all religions, but not equally;  since they feel oppressed mostly by the dominant religion of the culture, that ends up being Christianity in the US.  Where I work, most important meetings, ceremonies, and events start with an invocation.  Are we really asking God's help?  No, just marking out territory.  I think it's a bad idea even though I belong to the dominant religion. 

Some of the more thoughtful ones have been just as quietly critical of the more moderate or liberal Christians, the ones that don't have a problem with science and education for example, as being intellectually just as destructive as the wacko fundagelics.  I see their point, I just don't agree with it. 


I did say "many" atheists are a-holes.  Not most.
I think for many the invocation is tradition.
Never seen them attack anyone but Christians.
They feel oppressed?  Are they not thriving?  Are most of the panhandlers I see militant Christians?  Or are their feelings hurt?
71  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 05:34PM
No war on Christmas,  Everything is just dandy.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/12/04/town-told-to-keep-christ-out-christmas-parade/?intcmp=latestnews
OMG!!! I used Fox News.  We're all doomed!
72  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 01:19PM
Uh, did you read the article?  The reaction was one of outrage.
 

Uh, have you read a religious billboard lately?  I find them appalling, beyond tacky, in complete violation of Matthew 6, and usually theologically unsound. 
I read it.  Outrage yes.  It outrages me too but the first amendment protects them.  I don't understand your point.  And I did say "almost everybody I know".  I don't know those people down there.
Not many up here in Washington.  The ones I've seen here are fine.  Haven't lived in the south since the early 80's.  I think a lot of evangelicals are off their rocker.  Athesits attack all Christians.  Why?
73  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 12:21PM
In this particular case, they're not "bustin up" anything, nor making any attempt to rein in what they see as religious intrusion into public areas.

They are simply using the 1st amendment right of free speech to put their message on a billboard.

Are there any religious messages on billboards?  Hey, I live south of the Mason-Dixon line, there's one every 100 meters. 

These atheists are not attempting to remove any religious billboards.  They just want to pay for and put up their own message.  I may not agree with their message but if I honor the constitution I have to support their right to do it.

And here manifests the curious American conflation of religion and patriotism.  The 1st amendment is nowhere in the Bible.  According to Jesus we don't have rights, we have obligations.  To many conservative Christians it would seem the Bill of Rights is part of the Creed.  Churches are very quick to stand on constitutional rights of free speech and freedom of religious expression, which are inherently NOT religious in nature; they shouldn't be surprised when non Christians want the same constitutional rights, tasteless as the results may be.
I, and most everyone I know, have no problem with the 1st amendment issue.  But, like you said, its in poor taste.  It's provocative.  It's mean.  I think part of it is jealousy that they can't believe there is a God.  They're angry.  They believe only what they can see, taste, hear or feel.  They feel the need to share their  faithless miserable existence with everyone.  "Hey!  The can't be happy because I'm not happy".  Like I said they're a-holes.
74  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 10:29AM
Many atheists are just a-holes. Might as well go downtown and bust up some nativity scenes, Christmas trees, menorah's (funny how atheists don't attack Hanukah or Muslim holidays or kwanza) churches. 
75  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Dec 04, 2014, 10:22AM
There. Fixed it for ya.  Hi
You go Bob. :D
76  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Religion Matters on: Nov 06, 2014, 03:34PM


That's clear and definitive.

Yet it would be a shock to many on the conservative end of religion, who have been coopted by the conservative end of politics.
I believe you are mistaken.  No one I know believes that profit is the exclusive norm and ultimate end of economic activity.  And I don't believe many Conservatives subscribe to that either. 
It's just not factual.
The Conservative end of politics is more charitable and philanthropic than the liberal end.
The ultimate end of economic activity is more than just self preservation for most Conservatives.
77  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Critical Thinking: Taking Honesty Seriously on: Oct 31, 2014, 11:46AM

You can't just presume or even perceive these things into existence.
 
You really need to learn that one, and what the implications are.
blatant dishonesty or just plain narcissism.
78  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Critical Thinking: Taking Honesty Seriously on: Oct 31, 2014, 11:00AM

By all means. Provide links so that anyone actually interested, for some reason, can go back and look at what provoked any actual attacks (if you can even find any). It would be interesting to see when the last actual attack happened and what provoked it. I suspect, though, what you'll actually find and post are a lot of things you take as offensive that aren't attacks at all. Could be educational--or at least it could offer some educational information for those inclined to take advantage.
I will.
And by the way, you obviously don't take honesty seriously.  Passive aggressive taunts, intentionally missing your intended target are a very cowardly way to have a conversation.  In real life, as opposed to the comfort of you living room durfing the net,  its like mumbling under your breath something you only want your posse to hear because you know dam well if your intended target heard it, he'd kick your ass.  That's cowardly and dishonest
79  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Critical Thinking: Taking Honesty Seriously on: Oct 30, 2014, 05:28PM
No. They're actually pretty much just perceiving attacks into existence in your own minds--choosing to be offended. Partly it's the mindset that certain viewpoints on certain issues are personal attacks rather than viewpoints on issues.
No.  You just fooled them.  I could quote your attacks if you like.  They go way back.
80  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Woman harassed by men on streets of New York on: Oct 30, 2014, 03:24PM
So there was a time when women liked being followed down the street by creepy guys demanding their attention ?

Women enjoyed that until "women's lib" came along?

My mother certainly came before "women's lib" and I can't imagine her ever going out and hoping to run into guys like that while she was walking to the store or the bank.
I think you took that out of context. 
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