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1069843 Posts in 71003 Topics- by 18772 Members - Latest Member: adireccional
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1  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Today at 08:55 AM
There are distinct differences between Classical Mechanics, Relativistic mechanics and Quantum mechanics.  I'll try to explain the best I can.  None of the 3 actually agree on gravity, but that does not mean they aren't all useful tools for work in their domain.  Just that none of them is a perfect theory.

Their failing(s) say nothing about Gravity.
Exactly my point... the understanding is what is in question, though the search can be useful. That which is attempted to be understood is not somehow compromised because an approach is not complete or without issue.

Science is open to scrutiny and revision.  It's one of the mechanisms of science.  Religion is not open to scrutiny and God is not subject to revision.
Nope. because you you revise your theory of gravity, gravity is not impacted in the least. You are revising how you approach and understand it. And that same approach is not only valid, but regularly happening with religions everyday. My own understanding is quite different than when I was little. That does not mean God changed. Just how I attempt to understand Him did. And per revisions about said understanding... that has been happening for millennia.

I'm not trying, at least here, to unravel God.  Just come to some understanding of God we can use to discuss the religions that surround him.  Why do you fear that?
Fear is your own word and your own projection. I have no fear of that at all. It's like if you said gravity was a hoax... It really doesn't change anything. My glass will still fall and break if I drop it. The question comes.... the God of christianity is different than the God of islam or the jews, which is different from the gods of hinduism or other religions. What is it you hope to get from blurring the lines enough to try to put pictures of these all on top of each other?

It at least allows you move on without blaming yourself which can be extremely damaging.
Because blaming others is better?

Life basically never turns out as desired or expected. Sometimes, it gets better, sometimes worse. Looking back and hunting for a target to blame when things don't go as expected is itself damaging. Better to just accept and figure out where to go from there.
2  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Wake Up, America: Take 3 on: Today at 07:50 AM
I doubt many Republicans would accept the label "Government of Putin".  Certainly John McCain won't.  I'll accept that Trump and his cohorts have ties to Russia, but it doesn't spread that far.
Sure, they don't like it. But they aren't exactly fighting it either. Mostly accepting the win, and trying to pretend any negatives aren't there.

And well, as those in power, with the authority to investigate or not... Well, it's like a governor getting a piece of legislation on the desk. He can sign it or veto, but no action legally means the same thing as signing it.
3  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Today at 06:52 AM
So... traditional gravity is well understood per einstein's work and those before him. We can calculate the force, determine when it happens,  how it happens, have it pretty well figured out. However, when dealing on the quantum level with gravity, it isn't fully consistent between the two.

So does that mean that gravity doesn't exist and we should throw it out, or just that we don't fully understand?

Byron et al want to say that if we can't understand something, we can't count on it, or claim that it's there. That there seem to be contradictions in the concept of God, therefor it shows how God doesn't really exist. But they don't say that for other areas... those areas, science areas, well... we just haven't gotten there yet. We haven't figured it out yet. Calling one just part of the way there, and the other invalid, mostly just serves to show the preference of the person proclaiming the call. Seeing what you want to, rather than applying your own logic consistently.

The nature of God as we understand it is ultimately that God is a god and we are people, and the very nature of that is a gulf too great to comprehend. When Job questions God why God makes him suffer, God's response is basically... how can you possibly understand His motives?

So, yes, there are characteristics that we can ascribe, but the full comprehension just isn't there. And there will be inconsistencies, or seem that way... not because of what it, but because our understanding is limited. Runs into a major wall in this area. How does a fish understand a solar system? How does a fly understand the seasons?
4  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Today at 05:36 AM
In many cases that is an appropriate position to take in order to heal.
Might be trendy to shrinks, but really doesn't do anything except give you someone to blame. In the end, life still won't be everything you want, and blaming others only goes so far.

Just pray and see?  If you look at the 'historical' account, God's plan just seems like it may be a series of extremely deadly punishments.  What would you be praying for, a change of heart?

As taught by Jesus, and a few version brought together...
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever. Amen.

Which basically is a pray of reminder of who God is, what God is, and our duties. Basically to trust in God that His will be done. If that means a bloody end, He will still take care of us.
5  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Yesterday at 11:23 AM
You said God needed to correct the people he created.

If I had to correct something I created, I must have made a mistake.
That would be your own reading then. People have the ability to stray. They did. Was actually a common theme in the old testament. Stray, and then come back to God. Makes the basic overview wherein enters Jesus that they thought they came back, but to honoring themselves and not God, and God came to set the path straight.

Per your approach, we could lay all of our own suffering and problems at God's feet as His fault. But then, I might as well blame my parents for the way my life hasn't turned out as I wanted. Jesus' coming was prophesied long before He came. Why? Gets back to understanding God's plan... few people I know pretend to actually understand, just pray and see.
6  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Yesterday at 10:54 AM
I remember my sixth grade teacher turning green when I said that "God" and "Allah" were really the same person.

She looked like she seriously expected lightning to strike me and the Earth to open up and swallow my charred bones in a pit of fire and brimstone.
Yup, but then again, I also remember my 12th grade english teacher talking about the different religions one day. Even went down a list of them: christian, jewish, catholic, buddism, hinduism, etc... (she was southern baptist. catholics are considered a different religion to many of them :-P )

Though does seem a bit off, if the christian faith says that the only way to God is through Jesus, and the jews mostly looked at Jesus as a no good rabble rouser but otherwise believe in God... how do you say they are the same? Driz describes it as important and also pedantic... but given it's a key point of christianity, it really doesn't seem all that pedantic either.
7  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Yesterday at 10:41 AM
Bob, are you implying that God made a mistake?
8  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Yesterday at 07:56 AM
I would say it's even mainstream (while also noting there are some Christian positions that do not believe the OT God is the same as the NT.)
Yeah... no.

Mainstream christianity says that while christians came from the jews, the jews missed the first coming and a major message that came with it. As such, while they have the same origins, the jews missed God's correction to their practices and while their worship is well-intentioned it is blind and wrong.

Per islam, they began as children of abraham, but they went on a different way that very much differs in beliefs currently. Again, the first coming provided a major correction of where people had gone astray to bring them back on course. Not only did islam NOT go that way, they went a different path themselves.

So while all three believe in a single god, and share origins, what said god is and the faith around that is quite different.

Quick example, islam believes Jesus was a prophet, though given the practical realities of not teaching his teachings would likely put him lower than muhammad, whose teaching they do teach. Christianity believes Jesus IS God, and think about muhammad about as much as islam thinks of Jesus. The jews.... well, they thought neither, and killed Jesus when they got a chance. Looks like a jewish woman may have also killed muhammad (or at least poisoned him) when she found that opening as well. ;-) :-P
9  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: God on: Yesterday at 07:48 AM
If we can't understand who God is how can we understand God's plan for us?
Who says we can? Most people I know that take the approach of "God has a plan for me" often resorts to the wait and see approach to find out what it is.

Otherwise, How can we understanding something or someone who's very existence is said to be beyond (ie greater than) our limited understanding?
10  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 23, 2017, 01:27PM
So, Trump has confirmed that he lied about tapes to make Comey tell the truth.  Because this was smart?  Also, we need to remember that he still says Comey lies.  But believe Comey when he says that Trump isn't under investigation.

How anybody gives this voice any credibility is amazing to me.  Stupidity run amok.

It is pretty informative though...

His statement about making up the taped recording to make comey tell the truth says a lot about trump's own motivations, and that he's quite willing to lie as long as he thinks he can get away with it. It's only under threat of physical evidence that he feels motivated to not lie.
11  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: The dumbest political protest? on: Jun 23, 2017, 10:06AM
Kind of ironical.
True, though about on the same level as a close minded speaker demanding that a crowd be open minded enough to listen to them.
12  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 23, 2017, 08:02AM
MyBad, I should have struck out the top of the list each time a new one was added on the bottom, to make it more clear for you.
Nah, you were right the first time. His list indeed is growing, and nothing has yet been struck off.
13  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Religion Matters: Take 3 on: Jun 23, 2017, 05:41AM
What doesn't what?
Well, if you look back all of, what? 2 posts?

The bible doesn't proscribe education.
14  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Religion Matters: Take 3 on: Jun 23, 2017, 05:17AM
There are segments of religion that are very negative to education, particularly for their womenfolk!, but others with a tradition of respect.  I'm not sure it's fair to link the two directly. 

In the US there has been a longstanding tradition of contempt for education and scholarship, again within a segment of the population.  In recent years that segment tends to align with a conservative element of US religion, but I think that's an artifact of the US confusion between politics and faith. 

Clearly teaching critical thinking is hazardous to faith.  But I don't think that is the motivation - I don't think the religious establishments have ever become aware of that. 
Or in short, it doesn't. That was easy. :)
15  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 22, 2017, 09:00AM
A rouse? Arouse?

A ruse.
Double entendre

Just like what hillary and putin do behind closed doors!  Amazed  :-P

(ps. in all fairness, no conspiracy theory is complete without typos. See trump's tweets.)

(pps. saul alinsky was the one who originally got hillary together with putin)

(ppps. hillary was pregnant from it, but then opted for the horrible of horribles to "get rid of this nuisance(her words)")
16  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 22, 2017, 08:53AM
If there were fraudulent votes, it looks like the Russians were responsible. And we know where that leads.


(hillary is putin's mistress. Hence the public tension between the two. It's a rouse to hide the sexual tension. They were in cahoots. She got the nomination, but then didn't want it, and used russia to ensure she would lose in a way that would make trump look at fault - when we all know he wasn't, duh! - but also allow her to bow out. In truth, she threw the campaign all on her own, and russia really had no influence, just a smokescreen appearance... It was hillary that sent the russian ambassador knocking on trump's team's doors. Hillary even released her own emails! she was never hacked! And even though there probably was money laundering going on per russia and trump's folks, it was really entrapment by hillary and they are not at fault. Hillary is an evil evil woman.)
17  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 22, 2017, 08:50AM
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not....

Even if those fraudulent votes were in those safe states, they still added to the overall popular vote that was trotted out as proof that Trump didn't win the election.
Did trump win the election? Seems like the russians handed it to him... Why else would he be so desperate to shut down the investigation? Evil

Right wing loonies want to call it a nothing burger in hopes of avoiding people realizing their candidate rigged and stole an election.
18  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 22, 2017, 06:37AM

There were not millions of fraudulent votes for Hillary.  You think they would fake millions of votes and miss by <70K winning the election?

Stop being dumb.
Yes... they faked MILLIONS of votes, across MULTIPLE states, in an election they thought they would win regardless. And they did so, not in the swing states which were close... but in the states trump had zero chance of winning such as CA and thus have no impact on the election.

It all makes sense!
19  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 22, 2017, 06:22AM
You need to go back and do some studying. The electoral college follows the people's vote per state. IOW, it is the people voting.
Well no, if it was the people voting, we would use the people's vote. Instead we use the electoral college. No so, it is not the people's vote. Trump lost that. Hence his butthurt rantings. He was only elected narrowly by an antiquated system he himself called illegitimate prior to his election.

Now, it is coming out the millions of fraudulent voters that voted for Hillary, now brings her numbers below Trump's.
So trump's "special" committee on vote rigging came to a result before it was ever formed? That sounds credible.

Nah, Trump came out barely ahead by a system even he doesn't think should be in place anymore, and lost the popular vote, in an election that was tampered with by a foreign government in his favor. It's that lovely point when he ran against a poor candidate, cheated as much as possible, and STILL barely squeaked through. His legitimacy as president is questionable at best, and it makes him act like a toddler who finally got his toy, but none of the other kids want to play with anymore, and it irks him terribly. In addition, he has consistently the lowest poles of any modern president, has no real agenda of his own, and has no clue how to actually follow through on his biggest promises. And thanks to an overblown ego and pride, he refuses to ask others or try to follow people's advice who DO know how to do things.

In addition, he is now under considerable attack from congress, the states, and private groups... basically every claimant level possible... because his sketchy business practices are coming to light as he demands to keep everything going in his new position. As well, his ethics are non-existent, and legal strategy only stands currently because his own party feels they could lose more to challenge one of their own. If Trump loses even a single chamber of congress.... he's forked.

Shoot, he may be forked anyhow due to cheating his way to barely winning an election.

Basically, trump is already an illegitimate failure, and he only just begun. The best thing he could do for himself and his part would be to step aside and give it to pence.
20  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Jun 22, 2017, 03:21AM
That's too funny. The democrats and establishment repubs are liberal. Let's just put them into one category: establishment.
From one category to another. Way to think outside the box!

The American people voted for Trump and are too smart to fall for the establishment folderol.
Actually no, the american people voted for hillary. The electoral college voted for trump.

Trump has been proven right again. There were millions of fraudulent votes cast in the election like he said.
Oh, yeah! Based on that investigation committee he was going to form to investigate, but then never did! Because they really had no case other than trump's wounded pride of losing the popular vote in the election. Damn media reporting the facts. He DID have the largest inauguration crowd in history too! I mean, he could see it! Way back there! Screw what the different perspective pictures said. THEY WERE THERE!!!
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