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1080009 Posts in 71453 Topics- by 19045 Members - Latest Member: Old2TheBone
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1  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: Performing the L'Arlesienne Suite #2 by Geortes Bizet on: Sep 12, 2017, 01:35PM
If not for the composer and his nationality, I'd think a valve trombone would be appropriate. You can pretend you're in Italy or Eastern Europe during the 19th century playing Bizet. Then it becomes appropriate.

Looks like Bizet spent lots of time in Italy, where valve trombones were indeed the standard. The tempo you describe doesn't seem right though....

Valve trombone was actually in vogue in Paris (and France) at the time, so it is not unlikely at all that the trombonists at the Théâtre du Vaudeville were using valves, or at least that Bizet had valve trombones in mind.

Or maybe he just didn't know how to write idiomatically and effectively for the instrument - quite probable given how boring and insipid most of his trombone parts are :-P
2  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Amateurs vs. Professionals on: Sep 11, 2017, 11:14PM
That is a very interesting point and I can get what you mean. At a certain point, you dance with who brung you.

And yet there is an element of resignation and/or giving up that I am not comfortable with. I told my physician last month during a routine exam that this 69-year old runs 3 miles every morning and then lifts weights for strength gain for 1/2 hour afterwards. I told him I am not ready to give up.

And I don't think any player - regardless of what he has attained - should give up either. Now, that doesn't mean he should drive himself mad by unnecessarily pushing himself. But I think there should always be a certain amount of pushing oneself to do those things that he would like to do better, even if it isn't on the current dinner plate.

There is a gentleman on this Forum (I hope he is still on) who has retired from professional playing. Now he is trying to make those improvements to his playing that (if I understand him correctly) he had always wanted to do. Even in retirement, he is not giving up.

And I don't think anyone should give up trying to improve and just milk it for the rest of the time. I simply can not buy that any pro anywhere should resign themselves to not trying - on some level of effort and it doesn't have to be Herculean - to improve some aspect of their playing, always.

If we combine our thoughts, then a player will continue to work on his weaknesses. But his weaknesses will not be his absolute weaknesses. They will be his strengths that are relatively weak compared to his other strengths. He is still striving to make gains, however.


Yes I agree with that general sentiment. My point (and I think the point the author was making) was not that a professional should not try to improve and just milk what they have for the rest of their career, but more that at some point, your strengths will define the kind of playing you will do professionally, and you might want to put the time you have in improving those aspects of your playing that you are actually banking on.

In other words, finding ways to sell what you're already doing well (and to keep improving that) is more likely to make you succeed professionally than working on your weaknesses and hoping somebody will notice that you got generally better.

A good image is this : you want to cross a corn field that has a few pre-existing paths going across it. Even if some paths may make more turns, or lead to dead ends, it's still going to be faster to just follow these paths than trying to force and cut your way through the crops until you've cut down the whole field.

Another one : playing an instrument is a quest, but it's also an adventure. Circumstances affect your quest - and letting yourself find something nice you weren't searching for may be just as fun as finding what you were actually looking for.
3  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Amateurs vs. Professionals on: Sep 11, 2017, 03:43PM
On all other points, I tend to have his pro attitude. But on this point, I don't understand why it is bad to identify weaknesses and improve upon them. That is building from the ground up. Okay, when performing - focus on the strengths, of course. But when practicing, we only get better at the things we practice that we can't do. Duh.


It's funny I kind of see it the other way around. The author has some good points but many of the points he makes are insipid pop psych and motivational philosophy clichés. On the point you mentioned though, I tend to agree with them.

Applied to trombone playing, for instance - not everybody's a naturally good lead big band player - that doesn't mean you can't have a career as a section or low tenor player. I bet there are a lot of great 2nd orchestral trombone players for whom their high range or alto playing is a weakness. And I bet there are plenty of big band leads or orchestra principals that couldn't do such a great job in other roles. A natural lead could spend too much time trying to become an amazing improviser - there might be other improvisers who are just much more natural and better at it and will always be better, meanwhile that natural lead player's time could be better spent becoming the best lead player in town, an objective within their grasp. Sure in school we all work to improve their weaknesses as well as their strengths - but at some point you have to stop and think, and evaluate what you're good at and capitalize on that. That lead player might decide to improve their improvisation skills during their career - good for them - but that's not what will have made them successful as a top lead player.

I have had so many friends and colleagues stop playing and become sad about music just because schools always push us to become the best in a pre-determined set of parameters...Yeah, they didn't have what it takes to win a major symphony audition (neither do I), but some have strengths that make them much more qualified to be a specialist of contemporary music, or early music, or improvisation, than the person who'll win that orchestral audition. I think it's meantally healthy to accept our strengths and weaknesses, to a certain point.

Some of the very top players have the capacity of doing everything; lead, improv, orchestral playing, crazy virtuosic new music, playing sackbut almost as well as people who study just that for years...but although they certainly put in the hard work to get there, I don't think it is  because of that hard work that they are capable of doing it all. Admiring the best is fine, but cultivating the notion that everybody can get there if they want it badly enough and work for it enough is not healthy. For most aspiring professionals, knowing our strengths and knowing how to sell them will get us a lot further (and happier) than trying to be the best in every single aspect of our playing.
4  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Intermediate trombone on: Sep 03, 2017, 04:48PM
Always better in general, at least financially, to buy used. An instrument typically looses about 40% of its value on initial purchase, and then keeps its value (or increases it, if it's a good vintage) as long as it stays in good shape.

There are some 100 year old instruments out there with no issues and some brand new horns with severe problems. Most of the best trombones I've tried or owned were not new. 

I would never recommend to a student to buy an intermediate instrument, especially a new one - it's just a waste of money and time.

What I always recommend : find yourself a good 88H or 42, and have improvements made on it as you go. You'll have a great instrument with ever increasing value, easy to resell or trade should you choose to move on to another instrument.
5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Help Identifying Instrument on: Aug 30, 2017, 05:11PM
To the OP : I would bet early 20th century French or British import.

 Those decorated ferrules are probably not actually engraved, they would have been roll-pressed against a steel negative template which is "engraved" (often using acid - you draw the "engraving" pattern you want using a coating that will protect the steel underneath, then dip the piece in acid and clean it off. Only the unprotected areas will have been affected and eaten through by the acid, with the coated areas intact - creating a deep "engraving" with sharp relief. Then, that steel piece plus the roll press can be used to very easily, quickly and efficiently turn plain brass sheets into dozens and dozens of identical ferrules, braces, sleeves or whatever you're using them for)
6  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS : German trombone - $250 on: Aug 30, 2017, 07:07AM
No, not yet!
7  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 11:58PM

I'll say that again. WOW!  A lot of work has gone in to dreaming up pointless objections to IMSLP. Yeah, RIGHT.

Example: Making a public announcement between Christmas and New Years is deemed too suspicious.   :/

Example: Asking people to give money by subscribing (for a specified additional) benefit is bad. Asking people to give money for no additional benefit is good.   :/

If you think it should be run as an explicit non-profit and that would be clearly superior... why isn't someone doing that? What's stopping you from setting up another PD music service to your own taste?  The music is all free. You believe the operation tasks and costs are trivial.

Why hasn't it happened?

If all the objectionable aspects of IMSLP you cite are really just corrupt, greedy, unjustified maneuvers then surely your non-corrupt vision would win everyone over and IMSLP would be shuttered.

IMSLP or anyone else can't do a thing to stop you so why aren't you doing it? In Canada, like you want.   Don't know  ??

Why is nobody else doing it? Because people who download the scores don't care about all this, for the most part, and it has established itself as by far the single best resource of its type for years. It won't get supplanted. The resource works, everybody uses it. That doesn't have anything to do with the morality of its governance though. Because I (or someone else) can't or won't try to replace them doesn't have any link with the morality of how they operate - saying that what they do is right because I couldn't beat them by doing it more ethically is not only a very obvious fallacy (like there's no company that's both successful and immoral out there....), it misses the point entirely.

Im not saying it isn't a good resource (it's great!), nor that I could do better (I couldn't). I'm not saying Edward Guo is an evil person; he most certainly is not. I'm merely pointing out that IMSLP became the amazing resource it is today precisely because it was perceived to be a community effort as opposed to an entity serving private financial interests, in the same league as Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg, and the open-source software movement. It used to be described as the Project Gutenberg of music scores. It made associations with other organizations which have open, free sharing of information as a goal. That's just fact.

If you do not see the contradiction in standing for those principles while also  being a privately owned, for-profit company with no transparency at all, I don't know what more I can say.

If you don't see the moral issue in trying to turn a profit off of contributions of volunteers who in many cases would not have contributed at all in the first place had they known someone would make a profit off of it, I also don't know what more I can say.

Asking for donations to a transparent effort for a common cause is good, yes. Trying to turn a profit isn't bad in itself, no, that's not what I'm saying. I enjoy getting paid for my work. But trying to turn a profit while pretending it's for a common cause and then failing admirably at giving any justification or reassurance to the people that embraced you because they embrace that cause is at the very least questionable.

Maybe that's not what they're doing - I'd de thrilled to be proven wrong - but it's the impression they have given in their response,and they haven't done or said anything to change that impression.

Anyway, this has been a long digression. I'm not saying don't upload scores there, I was saying, if you do so, be aware of what IMSLP appears to truly be. So if Harrison's goal is to partake in the open, free sharing of scores that he believes should be accessible by all in the future, it is entirely possible (even probable) that IMSLP will not live up to those principles.
8  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 10:11PM
By the way, I assume you're joking when you talk of making profits off of an edition of a Michael Haydn piece for horn and trombone? :-P

I wouldn't expect to make any money out of that edition.
9  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 09:58PM
That would cost just about nothing to digitize.

I will not share the original on IMSLP, for the same reasons regarding that particular website; or elsewhere, for those other reasons I mentioned already : someone qualified in handling ancient documents digitized it as part of their work at the library - that costs something (say, a couple hours of work, taking individual pictures of each page while carefuly manipulating the score, using very expensive scanners that do not damage old documents - cause you obviously can't just run it through a photocopier. It does not "cost next to nothing to digitize", far from it). Someone has to store and preserve the original, that also costs something. I would love those scores to all be openly available for free online. I believe in that idea. But I also respect and appreciate the work that has to be done by the institutions, and respect their prerogative of how they choose to operate within very strict financial conditions. They are under no legal obligation to share their collections online - you can always go see them in person. Hopefully in the future more and more become available. That's the current trend anyway, we're slowly getting there.

Also, as you very well know and pointed out earlier yourself,  when requesting a digital copy of a manuscript, you are typically asked to sign a contract which stipulates that the copy cannot be shared. Whether or not that contract is legally binding given the public domain status of the works, and whether or not I agree with the institution's policy on principle (I don't) are both besise the point - how can I as a scholar expect institutions to grant me access to sources in the future if I go behind their back and do exactly what they request me not to do?

Let's say 20 trombone scholars share 20 previously unknown scores with trombones, we go YAY! 20 new pieces! How great!

Now let's say those 20 scores all came from one institution who asks scholars not to share copies without permission. Let's say that institution has 500 scores with trombones. And now they're angry because f@#ing trombone scholars can't behave, so they decide to refuse further requests for digital copies from trombone scholars.

Yeah we got 20 scores but we just closed the door on 480 more. As I said, very short-sighted.

Same with Urtexts being posted online (yes, there are Urtext on IMSLP, not nearly as much as reprints of course, but still quite a lot of them). Serious, professional Urtext editions are a ton of work to make, and we should all really, really want more and more of them coming. Posting them online and reducing their already tiny niche market is counterproductive. It might be legal (although only because of Canada's friendly law - it's definitely illegal in the US), but we can still question the morality.

I have no problem with posting reprints or editions that are just yet another edition that doesn't add anything valuable to our understanding of a piece. Upload that Kalmus and Dover and Lucks and even Universal who's sitting on copyrights for decades all you want. But why would we want to bite the hand that feeds us?
10  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 09:18PM
I see no reason why scans of the original documents  (not urtext editions) should not be disseminated as widely as possible. That is pro scholarship.

Again, that's all nice, but who pays for the digitizing, the storage and the preservation (and/or restoration) of thousands and thousands of precious manuscripts? That can easily cost in the millions. I agree with the idea of free sharing on principle, but unless we're collectively ready to make sure these institutions are properly funded (which in most of the world is not the case), I would exercice caution in passing moral judgment on those institutions which do not openly share online. Also, note that the scores are not held in a vault where nobody can see them. They are easily and openly accessible in person. That you have to pay for the digitizing of a score you want to consult seems to me like a reasonable expectation. It's not THAT expensive either. It cost me around 20$ for the score of the Haydn concertino.

How do i exercise "caution" with IMSLP? What do i do differently?

It's unrealistic to expect such a large service could be run for no money and no central guidance. Suppose they had consulted with the contributors... what would that have gotten other than a myriad of mostly unusable ideas and still left the need to pick one path to go with?

By exercising caution, I meant simply  thinking twice before uploading scores on that site.

I don't mean it shouldn't be run with a central guidance, but there is a big moral issue.

The point is, IMSLP as it exists now could not have existed without the hundreds of contributors who went through the process of scanning scores and uploading them throughout the last decade+. The product that is now being monetized is not one they built, it's one that was slowly gathered through the efforts of unpaid volunteers who did that work under the assumption that the site was part of the open sharing community and that nobody would profit from their work.

That's the core issue. To make that decision without consulting those contributors and knowing that it goes against the very idea those people though they were contributing to is not illegal, but it puts IMSLP on very shaky moral grounds.

I would be surprised if that model is paying the bills, so i wouldn't be surprised if some mandatory fee happens down the line.

It seems unlikely anyone is getting rich running a classical music library that gives out music for free.

When they announced the change 2 years ago (by the way, the announcement was made between Christmas and New Year - a rather cynical timing if you think about it), they
A) admitted that they were not actually in need of more funding,
B) would not divulge any financial plans for the future or explain what the money would be used for
C) admitted that doing an annual fundraiser like Wikipedia (or this Forum) does every year was not an option they had considered or would consider for the future (but isn't that the first thing that comes to mind if you're trying to raise funds?)

It was then pointed out that IMSLP, despite pretending to be based on Canada and claiming to operate in accordance to Canadian copyright laws, is actually incorporated as a US Limited Liability Company.

You asked me how I think it should be run. I know many contributors expected that it was registered as a non-profit, to start with. The founder and owner being a Canadian lawyer, I'm sure he is aware that incorporating a Non-profit in Canada is extremely easy and hassle-free, that you get automatic 100% tax exemption under 50K revenue (unlike the US), that you don't even need to file taxes under 50K, that you have accountability to your members, not to the general public and don't have to share your financial data publicly outside of your membership (also unlike US non-profits), that getting public funding from various federal or provincial agencies would have been easy. And, more importantly perhaps, that being registered as a non-profit will make people comfortable in making donations when a call for donations is made (I don't know many people who will donate to a for-profit)

When asked why it was not registered as a non-profit they replied that
A) It was too hard to do, which I know is not true for having started 2 different non profits in Canada myself - a few of us pointed that out, they changed the subject
B) they might consider becoming a non profit "once the long-term financial viability is secured", but again without any justification of any of its not currently viable (remember, they said they were not lacking funds to run the site before the change), not any time estimate or plan, even vague. And given the lack of transparency, when they will have reached that point of viability, there is no way for anyone to actually know it. We pointed out the contradiction of referring us to a future event that we'll have no way of knowing has happened, again they changed the subject.

The announcement raised lots of concern and questions from many contributors, and the company's response has been in general very dismissive.

It's hard to estimate how much the site's expenses are, but I don't think they would be as high as one might think. A very large portion of the content is hosted by other organizations (non profits) that either decided to share their material or merge with IMSLP (but are still hosting their files), or are donating hosting services (for instance, last I heard, all their European servers are run by another organization)

I have stopped uploading scores there for now, as I don't want to contribute to a project that is pretending to be for free sharing but maybe is not.

I'd really, really love to be proven wrong and hope it will happen, but I'm fairly pessimistic about it...
11  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 04:29PM
Oh, I am committed to getting the big 4 alto trombone concertos put up on IMSLP. If I had scans of the originals, it'd go straight up on there for the exact reason you state above. I believe that perhaps Howard W. and Will Kimball have copies of the originals, but that's just based on what I've read from them. It was Howard who gave me a wonderful run down of where all the pieces are located. He made it seem easy to get access to them, but it is not so easy, unfortunately.  I know there are scholars who have scans of these pieces. None of the scholars who have copies of the originals have put them up on IMSLP though.

The reason none of the scholars (myself included) have put copies on IMSLP is that we respect fellow scholars and researchers, and appreciate that storing, preserving, studying, digitizing gigantic collections of precious, rare old scores is a really hard task, time consuming and expensive. I encourage everyone to respect each institution and ask them permission before sharing material. Some well-funded libraries (in Germany, especially, others as well) share their materials for free and some even have agreements with IMSLP to facilitate sharing. That doesn't mean all institutions can afford to and should be expected to do the same.

I also urge caution with IMSLP. It is a very nice and convenient resource, but it has also been exposed as a for-profit company with absolutely no transparency whatsoever on their finances or governance, who are ready to engage in the same type of corporate bullying as they were victim of a decade ago. Their decision to monetize the website was made without any consultation of the many contributors who uploaded scores for years thinking they were donating their time and efforts to a non-profit in a 100% free and open community. It's very cynical and I may very well be wrong, and I certainly hope I am, but I expect free access to the service to disappear in a few years and subscription fees to go up and up.
12  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 04:14PM
Thanks IMSLP!

The fact that they post recent scholarly editions (stripped of all the research report) is one of a few big ethic issues I have with IMSLP (which is otherwise a terrific and invaluable resource). Very short-sighted...

The big problem for me is when the PD originals are very difficult to obtain and you can't check to see if published editions of a piece are actually accurate against the originals (***ahem*** all the published editions of the 18th century trombone "concertos"), so music that should be free to use and distribute is not.

It's genius actually. "Check out this piece by Beethoven, that we are carefully guarding the original of. No it's not PD. No you can't use it without paying us. No, we won't tell you if or what or how we changed the inherent music to modernize it. It's faithful, but we put enough work in that you can't have it. No, you can't see the original without signing a legal document stating that you won't release it in any form"

Most manuscripts are full of ambiguity so aren't that much help on their own - what you want to check is both all manuscripts and all early editions.

Most manuscripts are in libraries - you can usually look at them for free or cheap if you can physically be there. If not, you can always order scans/microfilm, but it can get rather expensive. I don't think it's so much about malice and preventing people from seeing them, it's more that preserving rare old documents is expensive, digitalizing them too, and they are typically public (so generally underfunded) institutions.

But yeah, not the easiest thing to do, especially at first when you don't know where to look. When unable to examine the sources, I would generally trust certain Urtext publishing companies (Barenreiter in particular) to be, if not 100% accurate, at least very transparent about what they changed and why. Especially editions from the last 25-40 years.

You mention the 18th century trombone "concertos". Those are relatively easy to acquire. The solo part of both manuscript copies of the Wagenseil are in appendix of a dissertation you can easily find online. I made a (yet to be published) Urtext edition of the Michael Haydn concertino for horn and trombone based on a digital copy of the manuscript held in the National Széchényi Library in Budapest. I believe the other Haydn piece is in that library as well. The two Leopold Mozart pieces might be there too, if not I'm sure they are easy to find, I just haven't looked for them. For the Albrechtsberger, there is a very good edition based on the manuscript and without editorial additions, by Mattijs van der Moolen (who's occasionally on the Forum). It's self-published, he sells it directly on Sheet Music Plus. It's a better edition than anything on the market.

13  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 12:10PM
Also depends where. In Canada, the music itself is copyrighted, not the physical  engraving; no new edition of a work already PD can qualify for copyright protection. The law establishes a "threshold of originality". An adaptation, arrangement, reorchestration qualifies, a new edition of an existing, PD work (even if it was never before edited or published) doesn't.

Which is how IMSLP gets away with having Barenreiter and Henle scores - they take out the protected parts (preface, critical commentary, etc), keep only the score and/or parts themselves and host them on their Canadian server.
14  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 12:06PM
Well, aside from Urtext editions, most editions of PD music are old enough to also be PD (Dover or Kalmus reprinting an old Breitkopf edition with their stamp added doesn't qualify as a new edition and is not protected under any copyright law, despite what they sometimes write)
15  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Question on copyrights... on: Aug 29, 2017, 09:46AM
there's a reason why a lot of music has a picture of a copy machine with an X over it. It's not legal to copy it.

Yes, although to be fair, I can think of numerous instances where I've seen that symbol or a notice forbidding copying or "all rights reserved" on music that was most definitely in the public domain.

Those markings have no legal power anyway -
a work is protected no matter whether it says so on the work or not (I.e my editions are protected even if I just write Cura et studio Maximilien Brisson, with no explicit copyright notice - ironically though, they are protected in the US but not in my home country because Canadian copyright law considers that a new edition of a Public Domain work does not cross the threshold of originality required for protection to apply).

Publishing companies will put these notices on everything even if it's just a reprint of a public domain work, because it confuses customers and makes them afraid to infringe a law. It has been argued that these markings constitue a form of corporate bullying.

It has also been argued that the "all rights reserved" mention is an abuse of copyright laws since ALL rights are never, ever reserved - there are exceptions and exemptions.
16  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Trombones on China Airlines: International flight horror stories on: Aug 25, 2017, 09:23AM
Same as Doug, when I flew whitin China was with a touring orchestra, with tons of instrument, which can be a quite different experience than flying alone, but I don't remember any body's instrument getting hurt and anybody being forced to check their instrument.

I considered using my SKB golf case for that trip, but the oversize charge for an international flight to Asia was something like $400.  I have used it before to Brazil and Europe with no charge.
Fortunately I have never had a problem.

I used my SKB golf case then, because the tour promoter was paying for everything and I didn't care about expenses. Every tour I've done I used it in fact, but I might change my mind...

A colleague of mine, bass sackbut player, uses the same SKB golf case, with her bass sackbut in the original wooden case inside of it. It sustained damage repeatedly, especially in the last year or so. The bell got bent and compressed, slide issues, stuck tuning slide...TSA told her it's because the oversized luggage sometimes doesn't manage to scan through both the SKB case and the wood case, so they have to open it and probably don't put it back right...

Also that SKB case, filled, is pretty heavy, and it's roundish - I suspect it is prone to falling off the luggage ramp when they unload the plane.
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Solution For A Frozen Trigger? on: Aug 22, 2017, 09:13AM
I agree with that
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Solution For A Frozen Trigger? on: Aug 21, 2017, 08:50PM
Yup, the OP sure is a dummy for asking about it. You're right. He must be a soup sandwich. Since when is rotor maintenance a competative sport? You're basically calling the OP dimwitted, and you pretty much called everyone else trying to help on this thread dumb as well, dude. "Come on folks, this isn't rocket science". Not cool. I know you mean well. You have the right answer, but Bruce knows what he's talking about, too.

Wooooah wait a minute! First, please don't put words in my mouth.

If you can reset a valve in 30 seconds, you're either a professional tech BUILDING valves or your bearing plate is so jacked up from trying to rush it that it doesn't seal/seat properly and you've already got a wrecked valve.

Did I say I could reset a valve in 30 seconds? I said anyone (not me specifically) can take it apart rapidly (which is a fact), and that it's not particularly hard (also a fact). Can things go wrong? Of course they can. But you can also damage a slide by cleaning it with a rod or snake, possibly more easily than you can wreck a traditional rotor that isn't already damaged, and nobody is saying we shouldn't clean our slides and instead bring them to the tech to be cleaned every couple weeks. Again, you can seriously damage a string instrument if you're careless in routine maintenance like restringing. They still need to be able to do it themselves.

Telling someone with a stuck valve (ie, they don't know how to take care of their valve yet but want to learn how) that it takes 30 seconds and sort of implying that they're dumb like you did because they might be worried about doing it ....  brah --- my pointing that out is not hyperbole. It doesn't take 30 seconds to do. It doesn't take 30 seconds to learn. You can completely muck up your rotor if you rush it, especially if it's your first time. The OP SHOULD learn how to do it properly. Nough said.

Again, putting words in my mouth. I never said anybody was dumb. Or that it was stupid to be worried about doing it (which, by the way, the OP didn't talk about either, so what are you talking about?). My 30 seconds comment was hyperbole, as I've said already. Of course it doesn't take 30 seconds to do, and of course you should take your time to do it correctly. But again, it's not rocket science and being paranoid about it isn't helping the OP, or anyone else either.

That being said, I read back the context, and I will recognized that what was intended as a tongue-in-cheek comment to encourage a bit of DIY was not very delicate. There was some really good advise posted before my comment, and I certainly didn't mean to dismiss it. I sincerely apologize if anybody was offended by it, and I will edit out my comment if anyone asks that I do.

I will say this however specifically for Harrison : if the OP was offended, I will offer my sincerest apologies to them, both here and in private, but I find it a bit presumptuous from you to attack me on behalf of the OP without knowing that they were in fact offended and had interpreted my comment the same way you did (which was a totally legitimate way to interpret it, just...if it's the case, they can let me know). It did sound like YOU were insulted by my comments; then please say it and don't hide behind the "you insulted the OP" line, because I won't apologize to you through them. We can talk and avoid attacking each other.

Now let me temper my comment. It's not a question of being dumb or clever. I was only trying to encourage a little DIY philosophy instead of saying "go see your tech". It really isn't a bad idea to learn to do basic maintenance on our instruments (and it's somewhat lacking in the brass and especially trombone world). My point is, what if your valve got stuck backstage 5 minutes before a performance? Or on tour in a foreign country where you can't have access to a good tech for several days? You don't want that time to be your first attempt at doing maintenance on your horn. Better to have it figured out long before. There's a reason why in the military, they teach you to take apart and reassemble your rifle in the dark.

It certainly took me years before I dared to it myself - a horn player did the valve maintenance on his horn in front of me and said "you really have to be able to do that - do you need someone to oil your slide?" - but man am I glad that I did face it and learn it, because the first time I ever had a valve problem was right after sending my horn for cleaning, the professional tech put it back together wrong (cause they're human and can screw up sometimes too!), and it fell apart in the middle of a dress rehearsal, on Easter Sunday when of course everything is closed. More recently, I apparently forgot to dry out my valve in the big rush of moving to Europe for 9 months (so really, if anyone here is dumb, it's me) - coming back, I found my valve completely stuck in dried mineral oil, had a gig the next week while almost all the staff of my local brass tech shop had gone on vacation before the big school instruments cleaning and repair summer frenzy.

Again, I really didn't mean to insult or offend anyone and am truly sorry if I did.
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Solution For A Frozen Trigger? on: Aug 21, 2017, 09:13AM
30 seconds? Exaggeration


But seriously, with mechanical linkages (I agree, string linkage takes much longer), it doesn't take that much more than 30 seconds to take a rotor apart. You literally have three things to unscrew and one soft mallet stroke to give...
20  Practice Break / Religion / Re: Age of the universe? on: Aug 20, 2017, 05:24PM
If you dismiss the 24 hour day, and allow that the exact order of events may have differed from the Genesis story it is easy to allow for a God driven creation of the Universe that is in line with what the scientists are discovering. 

How I you reconcile evolution with the idea of creation?
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