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1057092 Posts in 70437 Topics- by 18342 Members - Latest Member: hotwing
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4841  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Rath R4 Slides on: Dec 06, 2003, 02:46PM
'jumps in'
Well, in the early days, each slide bow was made by hand and there seemed no need to be consistant with the size- thus each of my slides are different, but tend towards Conn size.
Slides are now all made to the same spec. and that is about the same as Conn, rather than Bach, though the slide stay position is the same as Bach now, due to demand.
If customers wanted Bach style slides, I expect that could happen, but it would make no difference to the playing of the horn.
Chris Stearn.
4842  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / 9",9.5",10"or10.5"? on: Sep 29, 2003, 11:41AM
All my Rath bells (4) are 9 3/8".
Same as most Holton 169 models, and the prototype New york Bach 50 I used to own. Also early Conn 70H's.
I reckon they can't all be wrong.
Chris Stearn.
4843  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / 71h/72h differences on: Nov 04, 2003, 11:39AM
Originally, main difference in valve wrap- Conn trying to rationalise production with 60H valve. Elkhart 72H's had red brass slide. Early 71H's had red brass slide, but later ones were yellow. Post Elkhart were mostly poor, but the odd gem.
Chris Stearn.
4844  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Rath Trombones on: Sep 18, 2003, 10:48PM
Like any hand-made instrument, Raths vary between one example and another, not usually better or worse, just different. If you try an example you REALLY like, best to buy it, rather than order one 'just the same'. As for poor examples, it is usually a less than ideal combination of slide/bell/leadpipe/mouthpiece. Mick has no control over the mouthpiece, nor which bits the dealer puts together. I use a slide that was sent back to the factory- a fantastic slide with the right leadpipe and bell on it, just needed a bit of investigation.
Chris Stearn.
4845  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Rath Trombones on: Sep 17, 2003, 09:22AM
I'm well known here as a Rath player, so I won't post all the hype here. They are the answer for me, at long last, after years of swapping between Conn, Holton, Bach and Edwards, with a few others thrown in, I found a new trombone that I felt at home on, really at home.
Not everybody will feel this- no trombone suits everybody, even with vast numbers of options- but I think Mick can create an instrument to please most people.
All the more amazing that he has done this with a work force of five, in less than ten years, from the first ideas to a complete range.
When you look at the quality and the small numbers made, these instruments may even be an investment- who knows what they could be worth in 50-60 years time ?
Chris Stearn.
4846  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Why aren't in-slide tuning trombones popular? on: Jul 19, 2003, 10:15PM
Nickel Silver, made to the same spec would be heavier than brass. N.S. slides are usually drawn thinner and built up light, as the metal is harder wearing than brass and more resistant to dents. Lighter metals are being tried, but sound seems to suffer.
Chris Stearn.
4847  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Conns, Raths and valves on: Jul 18, 2003, 12:17PM
Rath can fit a Hagmann dependent setup, which works very well. Your problem with that 62H is that you have already lost a lot of the neckpipe, so may not be able to go back to a single valve on the main tube.
I remember that trombone now- recently bought from Canada?
Looked very sweet.
Rather than take risks, go and see if you like Micks trombones and if not, wait for the new Conn.
Meanwhile, enjoy blowing ever harder on the old beast.
Chris Stearn.
4848  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Conns, Raths and valves on: Jul 18, 2003, 09:13AM
This is a really hard one. I know from experiments at Rath, that the traditional valve on the 60H not only makes the F side stuffy, but gives a large part of the feel of the Bb side of the horn.
Getting a Rath 62H clone might be hard, as Mick is thinking about putting that line on hold, in light of the Conn 62H tis news.
Steve is a working pro, with a reputation to keep up, so if he says the Kanstul is good, it must be. Is it good for you? Only a blow will tell you.
Beware of adding independant valves to a 62H- it can really wreck them.
If it were me, living in the UK, I would go to Mick and get a Rath built that is all the Conn 62H good stuff, but lots of other improvements too. You can build a standard R9 to be just what you want- honest.
Chris Stearn.
4849  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Conns, Raths and valves on: Jul 17, 2003, 01:58PM
Well, after years of reading Greenhoe valve hype on this forum (I know, it's not years), I finally got to try them, attached to a very new, very custom bass trombone that belongs to an ex-student of mine that is now a Conn endorsee.
O.K. I see what the hype is about. These valves are VERY pretty, indeed, the whole trombone is VERY pretty. The look of this Conn bass with the Greenhoes is stunning, BUT....How do they play ??
Very well, has to be the answer. The Hagmanns on my Rath and the Greenhoes on the Conn felt almost the same. I bet blinfold, it would be hard to tell them apart.
I would say the main difference between them, is that the Hagmanns can be more maintainence intensive, but the Greenhoes are much heavier. Pays yer money and takes yer choice.
As for the Greenhoe/Conn, it was the best Conn I've played- as fine as the Rath, but different, of course. Not too different though, and I would have to say that these instruments were closer in sound than any I've blown recently.
It will be interesting to see what the slide-tuning 62H that Conn are to issue next year will be like- yes, you heard it on the forum first !!!!
Looks like a real 62H is about to return !!!
Chris Stearn.
4850  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Bass Trombones? on: Jun 24, 2003, 12:57PM
WHY ????
Chris Stearn
4851  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Bass Trombones? on: Jun 23, 2003, 01:10PM
Firstly Heath,
Berlioz wrote for a Bb tenor trombone- the pedal Bb would not be playable on a 'F' or 'G' bass trombone. He also wrote for two ophiclides, not tubas, so modern renditions, though impressive, are far from the composer's intentions. Your large bore Bb/F was some way from production at the time.
Second, great post Paul Hill, but I must correct you on the use of the 'G' bass in british orchestras.
The last player in London to use a 'G' orchestrally was I understand in the BBC Concert Orchestra in the late sixties. The BBC Symphony player changed in '64, LSO changed in the late fifties I think, and the other orchestras even earlier.
The 'G' bass lingered in British Brass Bands, to the extent that when I joined the National Youth Brass Band of Great Britain in 1970, I was told that I would not be considered for pricipal, unless I played a 'proper bass'(in 'G').
In all but the most skillfull hands, the old 'G' was a ripping, rasping, noise machine that died a timely death- I heard many at band competitions as a youngster- shock and awe best capture it in tonal terms.
Chris Stearn.
4852  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / New Kanstul 62H bass trombone pics on: Jun 04, 2003, 10:37PM
The last thing you said about a sound 'cutting through' is exactly it. In large concert halls you need to keep the sound concise and projecting.
I can remember many years ago hearing the Philadelphia Orchestra on tour in London. They picked up an extra bass trombonist from the London Philharmonic for the concert, so I got to compare the two players directly. The American was using a Schilke 60 on a Bach 50B with Olds independent valves, whilst the British player used a Conn 60H and Bach 2G. The players were very different, but I think the instruments also had a big effect- The American sound was lighter, and spread out whereas the British player was much more compact and projecting. Two very different approaches, and obviously both valid.
We in the UK seem to have a slightly different idea style wise, which Conn instruments favour.
Chris Stearn.
4853  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / New Kanstul 62H bass trombone pics on: Jun 03, 2003, 02:00PM
62H and 70H light in sound ???
Somebody forgot to tell Bob Hughes in the LSO about that.
Chris Stearn.
4854  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / New Kanstul 62H bass trombone pics on: Jun 03, 2003, 10:14PM
Well Steve, it looks stunning. Shame that I can't have a blow, to compare it with the Rath copy. Rath was recently accused of using Kanstul parts (which they actually don't)- hardly an insult, looking at the pics !!
Good luck with it,
Chris Stearn.      
4855  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Bach 50B Bass Trombone - New York on: May 11, 2003, 07:11AM
I used to own a prototype Bach 50B New York Trombone. It was made in 1945, had no model number on the bell (which was gold brass),it had a narrower, Conn width slide, with a Conn taper leadpipe. I got the details on the work card from Lloyd Fillio. I put it up for sale on the site here a few years ago, and had NO ENQUIRIES !!
It was quite worn, but still sounded great- I remember using it in one of the London Orchestras, and getting really positive feedback from the artistic director.
Chris Stearn.
4856  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / silver v. silver plate v. nickel silver on: Apr 18, 2003, 01:48PM
Although I have owned trombones with nickel silver and sterling silver bells, they were so different that I could not reasonably compare them (Rath R9 and King Silversonic). One common factor however, was clarity of sound- some call it quick response- they both had it.
Chris Stearn.
4857  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Trombone Modifications on: Mar 29, 2003, 01:40PM
The best way to 'modify' a Bach is to play it for hours and hours, every day, with the best musical concepts. They always get better.
Chris Stearn.
4858  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Rath/Hagmann on: Mar 10, 2003, 10:15PM
Daniel, I don't understand your point. Are you trying to say that Rath cannot supply instruments because they are waiting for valves ?
Chris Stearn  
4859  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / New Rath Dual Bore Slide on: Mar 11, 2003, 11:43AM
Frosty- I thought you and I were the dual bores, at least where Rath trombones are concerned !!
At our last test, they felt more like duel bores !!
What you need now is a bigger mouthpiece....
Let me have a look....
I might just have a.....
Enough of this folly
Chris Stearn          
4860  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / German trombone tradition/American slide tuning trombones on: Mar 10, 2003, 10:58PM
Wow !! what a thread. I was just browsing, but cracked open a beer when I got to Ed's post. This is an area that really interests me- the connection between US symphony trombones and the central European instruments.
To answer a question from Sam, when he first came to the UK, Alf Flaszynski (known as flash)favoured trombones made by Robert Piering, of Adorf in Saxony. He changed to the Conn (I think 8H) in the fifties. When in the Scottish National Orchestra, he also found a Piering bass for the player in the orchestra. I own three Piering trombones, two by Robert and one by his brother F.A. Piering. They are very fine instruments, even after a hundred years of use ! I have played one of them in an opera performance, and nobody noticed.
I recently bought an 'F' valve bass trombone, made in Germany, probably about a hundred years ago. It has a bell flare almost exactly the same as the early Conn 70H- I wonder if that model used an 'F' bass flare as a starting point ?
Any ideas ?
Chris Stearn.
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