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1066069 Posts in 70844 Topics- by 18677 Members - Latest Member: KVBianchini
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61  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 08, 2017, 12:56AM
Chris I told Kim that we now need to return to Scotland so I can try the Holton with the new valve set.  :)

No, no, we can come to you  :D :D :D

Chris
62  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 07, 2017, 12:39AM
Hey Chris, how's the Brasslab valveset working out?

George

I thought you might be interested.... luckily, they give me just what I was looking for... more slotted and solid in upper dynamics, more matched between open and valve notes. What I lose is the vibrancy and life at very low dynamics.... though it is still great in ppp .... just in a different way. The instrument is physically heavier now too.
I took the valves off my modern Conn, fitting that with the Minick set, built from Conn parts... and have gained a more Conn-like response in the low register of that instrument as a result... so it's a win win.
Chris Stearn
63  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: flutter tongue on pedal E on: Apr 06, 2017, 02:22PM
The clue is in the words 'multiphonics no particular pitch'.... this is a composer who does not really know what they want and what instruments can do. Multiphonics  should be specific... but then the composer needs to know what they are doing...

Chris Stearn
64  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 06, 2017, 08:51AM
Chris S,

Speaking of valve wraps, do you happen to have any Holton bass valve tubing lying around spare that I could monetarily compensate you for? Or does anyone else, for that matter?

The reason I ask: Remember the long D slide I had made for the second valve of the independent 169? It's a clear blowing improvement over the combination of two valves with standard length slides, but it was made out of spare 88H bits - so the bore is smaller than would match (being .562 vs the desired .585). This is (I feel) readily discerned in the blowing and sound response, and I would like to try it with a valve slide made of correctly-dimensioned parts.

Am I right in thinking that any Holton bass valve tubing from later models will do, Holton never having changed from .585 bore?
Valve tube size changed during the 169 run... I may have tube... we should PM about this.
Chris
65  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 06, 2017, 05:35AM
I wasn't trying to start a new business for you Chris. Just trying to make a humorous statement.

Ha Ha ! I was just making sure that our resident techs don't think I am trying to jump on the' band-aid 'wagon...
Perhaps when I retire.... no plans for that yet though...

Chris

P.S.  you should know better than to try and inject humour into the forum.... wraps are serious  Amazed Amazed Don't know Don't know Bad dog.  No Biscuits. Bad dog.  No Biscuits. Yeah, RIGHT. Yeah, RIGHT. :/ :/
66  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 06, 2017, 12:31AM
Yes well I meant in the UK.

I think Bill is referring to the fact that twos weeks ago I rebuilt and installed a set of Minick built indi rotors on my Conn bass and this week installed a Brasslab built indi section in my Holton 169. All work on my own horns... I don't do work for others for money... that is a whole different gig. I have done work for friends, but not for money... and sold on some frankenbones after they were built. I have tried open wrap second valve tubes on a 62H and closed wrap versions and could find no real differences between them, so the OP should go for a less open wrap that gets out of the way of his neck.

Chris Stearn
67  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Sackbut questions/reviews on: Apr 05, 2017, 03:17PM
What is a real sackbut! When is a instrument bad? If we are talking about intonation, the "real" sackbuts I played, meaning not copies, but trombones made in the 16th and 17th centuary, they all intonatate very different from modern trombones, and more, very different from modern "real" sackbuts, s.c. good copies.
The B&M/Giardinelli "sackbut is a pretty good horn to play, it is not really a sackbut though, it has a lead pipe and a conical gooseneck, that is why it is so good for playing, Does it sound like a sackbut? Not if you ask me. I did play that horn som years in the 70th, yes it sound nice and have good intonation. But it is fake.
There is some talk about the Finke horns, I played Finke bass Eb in the 60th, well that was the sackbut you could get by then. Was it good or bad? Well there was nothing to compare with, I used it in proffesionell occasions.
When you talk about Finke, do you talk about those first copies or the late copies made in 2015?
Whery different!

About "hackbuts", some time they was used by proplayers I know. The problem with hackbuts is not the thicknes in the bell as much as the profile of bell, the gooseneck and the leadpipe.

Wery different from "real" sackbuts? Not really. I say "real" sackbuts are most often wery different from the original sackbuts, and the original sackbuts do differe from each other wery much.
Think about this: most sackbuts are gone! We only have a few original sackbuts to copy. I played a bass made in around 1637, fantastc horn. Not anything like any of the best "real" sackbuts made today.

Sorry about that.

If you want to "hack around" to feel what sackbut playing is about, a well "hacked" hackbut can be used as a start until the real thing comes along.

The most important is how you play the music. That is the big deal when it comes to music of all times.

Very well said. You have been through the whole period of discovery of this early music for performance... the' hackbut years'... and seen how things have developed. VERY interesting to hear your comments on original instruments... so few of us have ever played them.

Chris Stearn
68  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Sackbut questions/reviews on: Apr 05, 2017, 03:24AM
It's not an argument for playing 'bad' instruments... it's a question of where do you draw the line.
The one area I have to consider personally is that late 18th early 19th c period, music from which I have to play professionally.
So.... we are required to play 'small bores' .... whatever that means, in our contract.... natural trumpets can be required, as can baroque timps.... but all other instruments remain unchanged moderns... including horns. Our regularly used compromises bear no relation to original equipment and I think the whole situation is unsatisfactory. I would quite like to see instruments made that would do a better job than modern small bore trombones, but would be happy to use chromed slides and slide/bell locks.
Bad instruments.... there are amazing performers that spend hours getting 19th c original instruments able to play to modern standards of intonation... amazing indeed, but some of these instruments are probably the equivalent of modern Chinese low end products... mass produced for town and military bands in central Europe... should we try to revive these instruments simply because they are old ???
I was doing some recording work with Ian Bousfield earlier this year and he tried the c. 1850 A F Piering I was using... I may well mis-quote him, but he said something along the lines of being very impressed that the harmonic series was as good as modern trombones, whereas he had yet to play a Sattler/Penzel that had a decent harmonic series. Even the high stuff was not that user friendly.. at least in the early days of the large bore trombone.
The very small trombones produced by Hawkes and by Courtois in the latter 19th and early 20th c were fine instruments to play, though made of heavier material to cope with the bands and orchestras of the period.... could a lighter copy of these be a start point for a classical trombone ?

Chris Stearn

69  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Sackbut questions/reviews on: Apr 05, 2017, 12:30AM
90% of orchestral music is played on the wrong trombones.... very little of the orchestral repertoire was written for the modern monsters... and don't tell me that playing the period instruments would not make a difference, because it would. Same with playing jazz from the 20's 30's and 40's.... different sounds from different instruments. It is nice to play these musics on the original instruments, as long as EVERYBODY in a group does so.... but how many can afford such a collection of instruments ?.... to cover most equipment from 1850 involves a huge investment.. and a lot of storage space....
How many instruments would you need to cover the much greater period from 1550 to 1850 ??? You cannot say that one size fits all through this period surely ?
Every player compromises to some extent... or runs a museum.... I can see very different ideas of compromise in the performance of music of different periods...

Chris Stearn
70  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 04, 2017, 06:17AM
I have seen Benn's work at Joe's apartment and it is indeed stunning... never seen better custom work.
That sort of work does not come cheap or quick and I suspect the OP is looking for a quick turnaround at modest cost... there are people who can do that kind of work in the UK... but not many.

Chris Stearn
71  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 04, 2017, 03:18AM
I looked again... I would want to change that too... not good... if you can find a tech who has a smaller bend (like the F attachment bends) you could get the tubes directed around the back easily and joined by the smaller bend... open wraps are more about fashion than function anyway. Just thinking...

Chris Stearn
72  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Sackbut questions/reviews on: Apr 04, 2017, 12:48AM
So the bottom line looks to be... buy a replica or don't bother.... oh, and don't buy replicas by certain makers.

If this were applied to other areas of non professional music making, most people would have to give up..

I'll just steer clear of sackbuts..

Chris Stearn
73  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 04, 2017, 12:40AM
New tube has a cost, sure... but new custom bends will cost a lot more... which the King style slide would involve.

Chris Stearn
74  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Valve Wraps on: Apr 03, 2017, 05:34AM
See if you can get the second valve tube turned around so it is on the same side as the F valve tuning slide.... you may need to get the F side open wrapped too... It's a job I have done on my own instruments, but it may be expensive to get a tech to do it.

Chris Stearn
75  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: How to get a better sound when playing loud? on: Apr 02, 2017, 02:13PM
I practice way to little loud, and in fact I practice to little soft. Its too much in the middle like mp-mf. So I think I play too little in the real extreme volumes. Well, just have to put it in during the day. Focus on good sound all the time. I noticed I have a tendency to use more tongue when playing, loud. Maybe it should be less in fact?

Leif

We work at what we need to. I have to play very loud and very soft with control and an acceptable sound. I have to play simple things exactly as they should be. An odd job in some ways. Nice to play good tunes in moderate dynamics as you show us so often.

Chris Stearn
76  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: How to get a better sound when playing loud? on: Apr 02, 2017, 01:16AM
Denis Wick used to say that most people cannot play loud because they don't practice loud.... has to be pretty central to it. Most young players only play loud in ensembles, expecting it to just happen when needed. It does not.

Chris Stearn
77  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ?? on: Mar 31, 2017, 02:08AM
Chris, I'm really interested in how this turns out.

EC

Well, this is not my project.... as you can see, I have my doubts, but the guy doing it is very confident and the Zirconium Rath B2 copy was very accurate, apart from the rim, which changed under polishing. What they have is an early Mt Vernon example with periods after Mt and N Y and the slightly longer early shank. I think they plan to do it in brass first, then perhaps Zirconium, which I far prefer to Stainless.... a clone in brass would be fine with me...

Chris Stearn
78  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ?? on: Mar 31, 2017, 12:58AM
I bought an Artisan 1G a while back out of curiosity. In that case, I think the weight helps it tremendously, and the other design tweaks they did are excellent. It ends up being a credible alternative to Yamaha Yeo mouthpiece, a Griego .75, a Greg Black 1-1/8G, or something like a 113/L or M Doug Elliott.

As far as I am aware, Vincent Bach never made a 1G, so I don't know what they found in the 'mouthpiece fault' but that 1G generally available could indeed do with some improvement.  As for the 1 1/2G, there are enough people out there that love their Mt Vernon examples to create a demand for copies that are the same as the original... however, I doubt that they can be recreated, which is why many of the copies have been 'improved'....
We shall see.

Chris Stearn
79  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ?? on: Mar 30, 2017, 02:52PM
Well, Bill (WGW) tried the Artisan today, and I think felt the same as me.... whilst not a bad mouthpiece, the extra weight and change of distribution of that weight on the outside does not improve the mouthpiece.... why did they do it ??
What is wanted is a real top quality copy with no messing around... no 'improvements'....
I have sent one the my mt vernons down to someone in London who will have it copied on a CNC lathe.... holding breath.....

Chris Stearn.
80  Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members / Re: Adrian Hirst, Black Dyke Band, UK on: Mar 29, 2017, 03:36AM
It is good to hear such positive news. It may be a long road back, but it looks like the road is there to be travelled. Having had a nasty accident myself years ago, I know how the world can change in a second... and how you can get back on the treadmill... with time and effort.

Chris Stearn
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