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1052282 Posts in 70048 Topics- by 18201 Members - Latest Member: kballard
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81  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Counting Rests on: Oct 22, 2016, 02:31PM
It's the bass trombone players job to count the rests, and be at the front of the queue to buy the tea's at the interval!

So that's where you guys go in the breaks..... and why you miss entries....

 Evil Evil Evil :) :) :)

Chris Stearn
82  Creation and Performance / Trombonists / Re: Jazz Bass Trombonists on: Oct 21, 2016, 01:11PM
You can hear Ray Premru in action in most of the Philip Jones Brass Ensemble. You must know Three Cats by the same composer? I think Chris Hazell wrote a couple of new cat portraits more recently.

There's also a trombone quartet CD with Ray Premru. Can't remember the name, sorry. And of course, early 007 scores.

That PJBE video is really nice because they look like they're having a lot of fun. What a great trombone sound from all of them. I recognise John Iveson playing 1st. Phil Harrison and Dan Jenkins on 2nd and 3rd?

You are a generation out ! Phil and Dan were rather young then... it's Dave Purser and Roger Brenner with the 'tash.

Chris Stearn
83  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Looking to try a different bell on my Edwards Bass on: Oct 19, 2016, 10:31AM
Have you thought about the other end of the instrument.
In my "limited" experience, changes of leadpipe and mouthpiece have a bigger impact on whats going on than the bell.
Leadpipes (for example) are more readily available, cost a lot less, and there are a lot more options.

I think the thing that makes the biggest difference is development of the bit that plays the instrument  Evil Evil

Chris Stearn
84  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Giddings mpcs? Where's Webster? on: Oct 17, 2016, 01:15AM
Did I miss a thread discussing the departure of Webster from G&W?


Chris Stearn
85  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Ideas For New Wraps For Bach 50B2 and 50B3 on: Oct 17, 2016, 01:13AM
Two things here.... old guys with spare cash/time often mess around with valve wraps to amuse themselves... don't ask me how I know....
Young guys should look on and smile while they put in the important face time, to grow into old guys with spare cash so they can eventually...... you know...

Old guys that have messed around with this stuff realise that open wrapping usually makes little difference to the blow in itself.... but stops the build up of water in the system, which is valuable.... but they also are more demanding when finding a case that they will fit into.... and can take up more space in small playing areas.

Listen to the techs who say that a skilled rebuild can often improve the blow of valves, just by building all joints correctly and getting rid of stress in the build. I recently improved the blow of a traditional F section by moving one stay less than an inch.

Custom building can be very expensive.... usually better to buy a trombone that works well in the first place.

Chris Stearn
86  Creation and Performance / Music, Concerts and Recordings / Re: Rethinking Mozart's Tuba mirum on: Oct 16, 2016, 12:40AM
For me, my old friend Sue is the gold standard of authentic music performance. That version just works.... the style and the instrument seem to make so much more sense of the music. Well worth discussion, thank you Douglas. Let's hope it gets players thinking about this important passage.

Chris Stearn
87  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Last show, concert in a serie on: Oct 16, 2016, 12:28AM
Not these days. Usually a good drink after though  Good!

Chris Stearn
88  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: TIS blow compared to Bell tuning on: Oct 14, 2016, 02:58AM
Looking at the 70H / 72H issue.... I've played many examples of both... they all vary but the 70H was the original design and the 72H was an attempt to 'modernise' it with bell tuning that I feel did not work as well in most respects.
89  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: TIS blow compared to Bell tuning on: Oct 13, 2016, 01:21PM



Thank too  Good! Good!

Chris Stearn
90  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: TIS blow compared to Bell tuning on: Oct 13, 2016, 12:17PM
Well...yes and no, Chris.

I have a lot of experience w/pre WW II Conn TIS horns of all sizes, some earlier Olds horns, a few Wallace/Williams '30s tenors and a number of shortish tryout periods on Greenhoe TIS horns, and in answer to the original question about "TIS blow compared to bell tuning" my own answer would be "There is a great deal of difference in 'blow' among tenor trombones."

I am not so familiar w/bass TIS horns, although I have played and enjoyed a number of them for short periods of time and played in sections w/wonderful players who used them, but in my experience the difference in "blow"...at least as I generally define the term...becomes greater as the horn is played higher. It is in the upper partials that the differences really become evident for me...7th partial and above. Suddenly everything feels very...even. No more surprises; no more sudden changes in pitch and/or resistance. Equivalent Conn horns that are not TIS also play less open in the middle and lower registers than do the TIS models.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if Mick Rath deliberately twaeked his TIS horns so that they are less different from his non-TIS models...a great designer can do wonderful things...but the Conn tenors that pretty much define the TIS experience historically (most of them designed by Jake Burkle, I have been told) are radically different than their bell tuning brethren. Different blow, different formants in the sound, different flexibility vs. focus characteristics, etc. I actually prefer them, although they are so different in sound...especially the dual bore models that I most like...that I cannot use them in contemporary non-orchestral NYC freelance work because they simply do not blend well enough with the predominant horns in use here.

My 2 cents, for whatever it's worth in this inflationary digital system in which we are now all swimming.



The thing is Sam, that you are talking about whole designs .... one element of which was TIS... and these were great designs that exploited every inch of the designer's skill. The heavier slides were balanced with light responsive bells... a that was just one of many elements. They were indeed great horns... my 1927 14H still gets regular use. But, is the TIS the key element ????
I was indeed involved in the development of the TIS versions of the Rath horns, and as part of that process, I converted two of my Raths from Bell tuning to TIS... yes, I converted them myself.... the guys on the production line were too busy meeting orders.... and I tried different TIS designs in the process. Those trombones were a little different, but by miles the biggest difference between a Rath and a Holton is that they are products of different makers... and I can say that as I have both Raths and Holtons in the next room..... and a few TIS Conns... and bell tuning Conns.
To me, the most important thing to say to a developing student is that they should make a choice in terms of equipment, and then realise that it is not going to answer all problems, just offer a path forward... and a slightly different path to previous equipment. During development, it is better for young players to be stable with equipment and REALLY learn how it works.
Lots of time later to refine the tools.... when the soft machine is much more stable.

Chris Stearn
91  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: TIS blow compared to Bell tuning on: Oct 13, 2016, 12:21AM
It's not about TIS or not. I've owned Raths with TIS and with bell tuning and the difference is small. You are talking different characteristics of different makes. Any instrument is a collection of vices and virtues.... you have just changed that mix and you will have to find ways around areas that are now weaker... and be thankful for the strong areas you have gained....

Chris Stearn
92  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: stock Holton TR 180 on: Oct 12, 2016, 01:46PM
Okay.... at long last I am going to lock this topic. It is going nowhere at the moment as has been pretty destructive for some time. The OP can PM me when there is a real development and I will open it again.

Chris Stearn
93  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: New Group on: Oct 10, 2016, 10:15AM
Isn't it just as easy to simply not go to that section? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just not understanding why it's necessary. I don't want to read/write on here regarding politics so I just don't go in the section.

You have self control.... not all members do.

Chris Stearn
94  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Best bass trombone for me? on: Oct 10, 2016, 09:30AM
You are going from 'new school' to 'old school' in terms of sound and feel. One of my recent students went from XO to Elkhart Conn 73H.... he has gotten more busy with pro orchestras as a result.... 95% his talent, but that extra 5% is useful.

Chris Stearn
95  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Monette BT2 on: Oct 08, 2016, 02:22AM
I played on a Monette BT2 for several years,due to the fact that Shires bass trombones don't work with a 1&1/2 size mouthpiece. This was as close as I could get. As Bill W. said,the throat is way over sized,which made soft playing very difficult. I've sat next to tenor trombone players using Monette pieces,same problem-trouble playing soft. My experience was with the heavy version. I know you can get a lighter version now,but realize,the whole Prana,Alexander technique stuff should be taken with a grain of salt. One other point-maybe not related or maybe. There are all these signature mouthpieces out there. X player is playing on a particular mouthpiece designed for them(at their particular stage of development)Why should anyone assume,buy purchasing one of the said models,that they will in any way,be able to play at the level of the said endorser of that particular model?

Well Don, I very much agree with your take on the BT2... the OP will get a chance to try one when he comes to see me next week... and then feel good that he saved the cash... or he might be one of the very few that love it... then I'll have to decide what it's worth.
I was very interested in what you say about the Shires basses and 1 1/2G mouthpieces... I have two new students with shires basses.... one on a Stork 1 1/4 that seems to work... the other I have just downsized from a bucket.... in trying his horn with my Bach 1 1/2G I chose the B3 pipe as working best for me.... any thoughts of your own would be interesting... drop me a mail as this is off topic...

Chris Stearn
96  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Looking for New Horn on: Oct 07, 2016, 04:46AM
Rotors... Truebore... Hagmanns... Thayers....
All different and all being used by world class players.
You have to try them for yourself to find out what floats your boat...
Also consider the weight of some systems... that is important.
Chris Stearn
97  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Alto trombones on: Oct 06, 2016, 10:51AM
I tried the old model and new large bore model alto at Wessex about a year and a half ago. No competition... the new big boy works better.... but I am a bass trombonist.
From the listening side, I heard around 60 players auditioning for us at the beginning of the year. Those playing the Conn seemed to cope with intonation more easily and mostly made a very good sound. That is no reflection on the boutique altos being used... they might simply take more getting used to. And the couple of Elkhart Conn altos I heard were pretty dreadful... all over the place. Not easy instruments.

Chris Stearn
98  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ?? on: Oct 05, 2016, 01:32PM
Just remember Ethan, that in the earlier stages of learning, practise and lessons are more important than the ultimate equipment.... and that is good news for you.
The time to refine the hard machine is a little later... college and early career...

Chris Stearn
99  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ?? on: Oct 05, 2016, 11:04AM
If the search for a good Bach 1.5G fails, I'll continue to pursue and find my holy grail.  I thought that the topic was praising the Bach 1.5G.  Well, my English comprehension just scored a new low. :/

Read post number 1.
I was talking about a Mt Vernon 1 1/2G.... still am.
Comprehension... now there's a big thing....

Chris Stearn
100  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ?? on: Oct 05, 2016, 09:46AM
The best Bach 1.5G I owned was a MV that had been an experiment. The donor of said mouthpiece had reamed it out to open it up and of course the experiment did not achieve the desired result. The price was right and I parlayed that into a Holton 1.5G with a trade to an opera bass bonist named Herb for a Holton 1.5G. I used the Holton in a Yamaha 321 for 12 years.

My next purchase of a Bach 1.5G was done by mail order in 1991. From the day it arrived it was terrible. I could sell it on eBay, but my conscience prevents inflicting this POS on somebody else. Of course, this "frog" could turn into a Prince for somebody. But I think my frog kissing days are over.

I expect I'll go back to the Holton 1.5G it I'm able to get my good friend to sell me his Yamaha 321 when he stops playing it. The horn is so much fun with a good 1.5G.

Small digression.... have you seen Herb lately ? How is he ? About 15 years since I last saw him and the Opera Canada guys.
Bach 1 1/2G's vary massively ....
The Holtons (and the 87 model that preceded it) were basically copies of a Bach 1 1/2G with a longer, wider bore. They blow well but can sound a little harsh if not controlled..
Chris Stearn
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