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1052521 Posts in 70059 Topics- by 18206 Members - Latest Member: Lchughes5
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1  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Trombone : shake or lip trill? on: Today at 08:28 AM
With the chin.
Yes.
2  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Tight lips on: Today at 02:58 AM
It's not an exercise, it's a concept and feeling.  You should not be pinching in ANY way or trying to make a buzz in whatever way is not letting air through.

The whole point is that the air MUST be able to pass through freely.  Otherwise it stops and you get no vibration and no sound.  When you start to understand the balance between freely blowing and getting a vibration going, then you'll be at a good starting point.  NEVER force air through, it should always flow through freely.  Pull your bottom lip in and blow down - with enough air flow, your top lip will start to vibrate and then you'll understand.

==============================
For a low placement player, the sensation of blowing downward is actually pretty much the same.  It goes up in the mouthpiece, but the feeling is not really different.

Thank you!
3  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Tight lips on: Yesterday at 09:40 AM
Try these things:

Blow like you're blowing out a candle.

Now blow downward like you're trying to make the air hit your chin.

Now play like that, trying to hit your chin.  For most people, that will work.  Don't "try" to buzz, just get the feeling of freely blowing air downward.

Excelent Doug.

Just a question, if the op happend to be a person who place the mpc low, should he still be blowing downward?
4  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Tongue between teeth in low range? on: Yesterday at 04:34 AM
The gentleman I was referring to was Paul Chapuis, former solo trombonist with the Basel Radio Orchestra who then took over bass bone and then retired when the radio orchetra was merged with the symphony orchestra. We taught at the same school and my wife had trombone lessons with him while I was still teaching trumpet.

I don't speak French, but if I'm not mistaken the "tiu" you mention is done in a manner, that the tip of the tongue is anchored at the base of the lower teeth while the forward middle part of teh tongue arches against the upper palate to make the sound.

When I do my "seed spitting" for lower valve and pedal notes, my jaw is dropped slightly forward and after the tip of the tongue strikes the lips, the tip regress quickly and lays flat on the bottom of my mouth.

Oh, and greetings from snowy Lupsingen just outside of Liestal in BL. :-D

Your "tiu" seems to be what I call by "dorsal tounging" common in Sweden. The tounging between the teeth is common for tubaists French horninsts and trombonists in very lowe range, usually the jaw drops and move slightly forward. But the lips are still in contact.
Some players canīt do that, maybe they drop the jaw to much? Some players do have a sympatethic conection between the jaw and lower lip, when they lower the jaw the lower lip follow down and the apperture get to large. It can be cured sometimes at least.

Note " tounging betwen the teeth donīt nessecary means a bigger aperture at rest"
When you are playing a high tone has two appertures that the lips are moving between, close and a small.
When you are playing a low tone the two appertures are closed and big. On a very low tone the big apperture is very big, bur the small is still closed.

That said, if your playing is fine, donīt change anything!
5  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Tight lips on: Yesterday at 03:52 AM
So recently I've really found the right amount of "push" to use when it comes to airflow. 90% of the time my throat is well open. The problem as of recently has been that my lips just close up sometimes, most of the time in higher passages but not always. I'll play out of Rochut and I'll find myself not getting a few notes because I close up my lips too tight, maybe it's lack of air and I should try to breath a little more often? I don't expect an easy fix, just want to know how to go about fixing this/loosening up my lips. I'm also wondering if there might be relation to tone quality, it's okay for now, but progress has been slow.
This problem is so common! Funny that itīs a more discoussed issue, I really wonder why?

One way to go (there are more) is to concentrate on the air flow, try to make the air flow with as little pressure as possible. If u have to push hard your air isnīt flowing.

Be sure to have the corners fixed (not to hard!) and kind of pointing down, the chin pointed down.

Listen to your sound, maybe this should be the first tip, learn to recognise when the sound is open vs to closed. Strive for the open resonant sound allways.

The lips should not be tight together at all actually.
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Hackbut Theory: Given the cut bell, which features are most important to you? on: Jan 14, 2017, 02:10PM
To cut down a bass to tenor size make it still a bass, and that was done sometimes.
The trombones (sackbuts) in the 17th centuary was not made by the same maker, and the same maker could make trombones  that did differ from each other.
The big difference from modern trombones is the amount of cylindrically tubing, no lead pipe, no goose neck, the bell expansion came very late.
That made a big difference. The old trombones was much more cylindrically compared to modern trombones, to cut down the bell does make a difference, but not so much as to make it a real sackbut. It is still much to conically.
Never the less, hackbuts has been played with great succes, the Giardinelly bass (witch really is the same as an hacbut) has been played in the whole world, most listeners comment on how good a bass sackbut can sound.
I had the privilege to play trombones made around 1657 i think it was. Very fine horns. No modern copies come close.

If you like to use your hackbut and it blends with the other instruments in the ensemble, I think it is allright. Go ahead!

No one know what sound they made in those days, maybe their sound ideal was very different from ours, maybe they would sound like sackbuts on modern trombones?
7  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: That was a challange - Please listen and comment on my bonus recording (take 4) on: Jan 14, 2017, 11:56AM
I like it! Good of you!
8  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Hackbut Theory: Given the cut bell, which features are most important to you? on: Jan 14, 2017, 11:50AM
Good points Bruce.

9  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: Please listen and comment on my final recording (take 3) on: Jan 13, 2017, 04:43AM
Tom I do allways like your playing. The first take does have a freshnes that the other are missing, it sounds like you are watching yourself in a not entirely good way, like you are on the guard.
It is true that you could work on your legato. And actully slide wibrato. Do listen to singers. Jay Freedman answered my question about vibrato "do not listen to orchestra players for vibrato, listen to jazz players, the most beautiful vibrato is slidevibrato, that does take lots of practice". That was years ago, today there are plenty of orchestra players with a "vocal" vibrat, like Joe Alessi, Håkan Björkman and others. And airflow. Somebody said inconsistent airflow, and that is true, even the weak jaw position.
Your playing does show musicality good phrasing and you play with good time and in tune, mostly. :)
It is very difficult to make a recording in the livingroom for to be judged on the forum, you did make a good job of it Tom!
That said, I know you can play better.
10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Hackbut Theory: Given the cut bell, which features are most important to you? on: Jan 13, 2017, 03:12AM
It depends on what you want. If you want a fakebutt that will fool wieuvers to think it is a sackbut the bell cutting is enouph.
That will not work as sackbut. If you look around you may find a bell that could work. You have a slide with no leadpipe (that is important)
you have a tech that van build the absolutely cylindrical (no gooseneck) from the slide and through the bend and maybe one or three inches, then you use the cut bell for the last maybe 45 cm. That bell has to be very thing at the smallest end.
 
Good luck. It may work it may not.

I forgot to say, the bell rim should not be at 3rd pos but on 4rth. Just use the last part of the bell thou.
The trombones made aronud 1650 in Sweden does not have very thin walls.
11  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Airy tone on: Jan 12, 2017, 02:53AM
Some players play with an airy tone and like it so. Many players can play with an airy tone as a way to change the sound just momentarelly.
Some players se the airy tone as a problem. I can make my tone more airy then what it usually is by flexing the muscles in the center of my embouchure.
12  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Trumpet player starting on the Pbone on: Jan 11, 2017, 07:18AM
You have an Amati valve trombone? You donīt like to use it? The mouthpice in the Amatin might fit the Pbone. There a few different Pbones around, often the mouthpiece to those are close to Bach 11c and not bad at all, many players on this forum are not used to play that size, but more often that not the mouthpiece are ok. Just as good as Kelly.
I do play profesionally (for about 50 years) I have a Pbone and have used it for some gigs, nobody noticed that it wasnīt a regullar trombone.
13  Creation and Performance / Trombonists / Re: Joe Alessi Interview on: Jan 09, 2017, 08:36AM
Great! Read it! Listen to it!

14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Smallest bore tenor trombone? on: Jan 09, 2017, 02:05AM
This?

http://www.kuehnl-hoyer.de/product/bb-tenor-trombone-bart-van-lier-48088-mk-ii-basic-model/?lang=en

Got one, love it.
[/quotre]


I played the 500 bore for a while, very good horn, but I did not like the way the braces was made. Your horn looks more normal that way, i am sure it is a good horn, kuehn hoyer makes very good horns. I dont think there is a better small bore around.
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Doubling using a Douglas Yeo mouthpiece??? Desperately need advice on: Jan 09, 2017, 01:44AM
Douglas Yeo has an very well developed embouchure, he is a very strong player. His mouthiece is desinged for him. He spend many hours on that piece on his mouth every day. Does he play tenor? Well he play lots of instruments, if he play tenor i am sure he does it extremely well.
His mouth piece is to big for me, are you sure it is right for you? It is a very demanding piece.
I have doubling many years, i can say i tried everything. The Bach 4 ore Faxx 4 recomended by Bruce does work for many players. Some doublers like Sam play big bass piece (around 1 1/4?) And sometimes a least 11c on tenor. It took me sevaral years to find my set up witch is Laskey 85 or similar to bach 6 1/2 or similar and Bach 18 or similar on tuba. That does not matter you find out what works for you.
16  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: transition from buzzing to not buzzing on: Jan 07, 2017, 05:05AM
Lindberg doesn't buzz, and he plays great.

So I'm pretty sure any of us can sound just like him, if we only stop buzzing.

PS  I'm not being 100% serious.  But if avoiding buzzing is such a great idea, how come more of us don't play like Lindberg? 

Hi hi, if put about 1% of the effort and time he did, I am sur you would play much better.
Christian payed his dues.
17  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Tongue between teeth in low range? on: Jan 07, 2017, 05:00AM
Do what works. If something is not working try to correct it.
Som of you might know who Derek Watkins was, if googl him. He told me that he tounged every tone betwen hes teeth.
Years ago a tuba player in the Roysl opera hous in Denmark was very admired, so was asked to write a tutor.
People got very surpriced whe the read that he recomende tounguing between the teeth.

Some very fine musicians do that. You may not do that, if you donīt do that donīt start now.

But if you find out that it is the way you can plat the best, well think about it.

It is how it sounds that count.
18  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Bill Watrous trill lick on: Jan 07, 2017, 04:47AM
Man is he really playing!
19  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Intonation on a different horn on: Jan 04, 2017, 04:20AM
With the Edwards tenor slide it's a very flat Bb, almost an A, at about A = 432. That holds true regardless of mouthpiece rim size or cup depth.

How about the lead pipe?
20  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Articulations in low register on: Dec 25, 2016, 11:39AM
Aidan, when you say most people, do you mean students or professional players? Ok there seems to be many ways to skinn a cat, but in my opinion most pro do not open the aperture very myck in the pedal range, at least not in Sweden, and I know several American bass trombonists who donīt either. Many bass trombonists lower their jaw but donīt open the aperture. I think there is a big missunderstanding about that.
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