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1066764 Posts in 70911 Topics- by 18692 Members - Latest Member: Ddorjdagva
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1  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Nartiss sackbut review on: May 22, 2017, 02:45PM
Anyone really did Monteverdi at 415?! That is ridiculous. We might play his work at 440 (because that's the standard of our time), or we might do it at 466 (organ pitch at San Marco in Venezia). Not much else are heard of, at least these days. Boy, musicology (and instruments) has come a long way real quick in the last few decades for sure. Pitches until recently were very localized. First "sort of" universal pitch was 415, brought about by the French court of Louis XIV.

Of course we are not used to Monteverdi in 415. We play Mv in 466 or rarely in 440.
Bach and Handel in 415, Mozart in 430.

It was so many years ago we played trombones in 415 so we did not remember what music it was, maybe it Mozart Requiem, last 20 years that music has ben played in 430 in Sweden.
2  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Nartiss sackbut review on: May 22, 2017, 02:40PM
I have a "High Pitch" trombone from 100 years ago.  It's shorter than a conventional tenor.  It plays like a Trombone in B when played against A=440 instruments.  So would this be a Trombone in C at A=415?

Personally, I've always wondered why the trombone was made in Bb.  My own (probably wrong) theory is that it was originally supposed to be in A (string instruments have one string that is also in A: top string on viola and cello and 2nd string on violin and double bass).  At that time standard pitch was A=465.  Now we adopt A=440 and we have these trombones that it's really tough to modify.  So we consider them instruments in Bb.
Yes the trombones was A , D or E trombones mostly.
But the tuning A was all over the play actually, sometimes as high as a moder C sometimes as low as a modern E.
Trombonists may be playing different tunings in the same town.
3  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Nartiss sackbut review on: May 22, 2017, 02:36AM

It didn't even occur to me to try it with the 415 crook, as we usually transpose down a step from 466 when we have to play at 415.

I am curious about what tunings you are used to?
Yesterday we played music of J.M. Krauss (orch chorus and solists) as we always do when playing music from the 18nth centuari the A was at 430. We talked about when the last time we tromboneists played in 415, that was many years ago! And we still wonder why, since there was no historically reason for Mozart or Monteerdi in 415. In Sweden 415 is used with Bach and Handel,not much tromboning there. As sackbutist I play 440, 466 or 420, never today 415.
So I wonder, when do you play 415?
4  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Greg Black Problem (not debacle) on: May 22, 2017, 02:15AM
Folks, writing debacle was an error on my part in the late hours of the night, as I had meant to write dilemma. You may remove this thread, because I have been reading your replies for some time and wondering just how long you felt it necessary to rag on me for my misspoken subject heading. I think that I outlined quite clearly in the subject matter, what my dilemma was. I truly hope that my short post on a forum deep within the internet did not destroy Mr. Black's career overnight. Thank you to the few that tried to bring some positive suggestions. Thanks to the hypercritical others and especially the one, crafty enough to know how to google search the definition of "debacle" for me. I will pass on this thread, since any actual comments seem to be far and few besides complaining about the heading.

You are absolutely right, there was no reason what so ever to jump on you, using the word "debacle" was a misstake but a very obvious on. Most people on this forum are nice, some read and react to fast, it does actually happend pretty often, still you can have som fun reading the posts, sometimes you get some good information.  Hi

We older forum members could also have a lesson. Do not jump to conclusion.
5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Greg Black Problem (not debacle) on: May 21, 2017, 03:01AM
Hey guys! The OP is not blaming Greg Black for anythinganything! Cool down.
He just has a mouthpiece that he wants to swap since the bore is to big for him.
For him the mouthpiece is not good, for him it is a fiasco, for somebody else it could be a success.
I donīt think he was blaming GB at all.
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bach Trombones on: May 21, 2017, 02:04AM
I don't believe that the inconsistency of Bach horns has anything to do with the company's size.  It is the inconsistency of the build quality or, perhaps, the specs of the individual parts.  I have tried many Bachs.  They are all over the place.  The most inconsistent horns out there, IMO.

Yes you are absolutely right.
The worst Bach horns are not as good as a good Roy Benson, sorry Bruce, but that is my opinion after testing probably hundred Bach horn and a few Roy Benson. I would not recommend a Roy Benson, neither a Bach if not tested.

That said, if you find a good Bach, you found a very good horn!
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ?? on: May 20, 2017, 03:16AM
I still have a couple of 1 1/2G mpc in my studio, sometimes I put one of them in one of my horns. The sound I make with this mpc:s is great. It is not really the size, it is something in the design I believe.

So why do I not play the mpc?

To me (playing small tenor, large tenor, sackbut of different size, tuba, euphonium) using many sizes of mpc:s, the 1 1/2 G would take some more practise time them I could afford. Now I play Laskey 85 GM, more easy form me, not to big not to small. Maybe if I only played the basstrombone I could still be on 1 1/2G.
8  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Tenor intonation and bass doubling on: May 20, 2017, 02:58AM
Playing that sharp is usually caused by a lot of unneeded tension in the face. Also, in my experience, from players who have an embouchure that sits too high in the rim (ie, mostly lower lip in the rim).

There is a partial solution -- the handslide.

Yes, since it is not a hardware problem it must be you. Most likely a tension problem. It could also be an ususlly small mouthcavity, but if the problem is new it is not likely. What mpc did you use before the switch? Have you started any new ways of practicing?

About "to high in the rim" we have exemples of players with mostly low lip in the area that plays very good.
Maybe there some players who play more "normal" who could play better with another mpc placement?

I will discouse the OP:s mpc placement, but I do think there is a tension problem.
9  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: what 'key' is the trombone in? on: May 18, 2017, 08:12AM
Bb trumpeters play a Bb and say this is a C. Trombonists play a Bb and say this is a Bb.
F hornists play an F and say this is a C. Bb hornists play a Bb and say this is a F, go figure.
Sorry I didnīt help did I?  ;-)

Alto saxists play a C and say this is an A.
Tenor saxists play a C and say this is a D.

Tubaists when playing F, Eb, C or Bb tuba, play a Eb and say this is a Eb.

10  Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy / Re: Mouthpiece Buzzing on: May 10, 2017, 07:09AM
I could tell you a lot about drinking beer and playing music, some do it, some doesnīt and some do it to much, the same with mpc buzzing.  :)

Some players I know never do mpc buzzing, and play very good. Some do it moderately and play very good, some do it very much and play very good.

I do it very little, do not relly know if it doing some good, I tend to concur with bonenick, sing or humming is very good. I am not sure the mpc buzzing makes my embouchure better.

But as said above, some very good players swear by it.
11  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: What notes to not hit on an improvised solo` on: May 10, 2017, 06:54AM
Some notes sound wrong if you donīt resolv them. som notes allways sound ok or good. Play som "wrong" note and make them sound good going to a good resolving note. On C min7 the F does sound good anyway, on C Maj 7 the F does need some movemet, maybe down a half step to E. Good.

I 1985 Bill Watrous demonstrated that all note on all chords are possible if you can resolv them, going to a god resting note.
12  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: alto or tenor: Leonore #3 on: May 04, 2017, 07:52AM
If you get the chanse to play Beethover in an orchestra that want to only use period instruments you you are in a situation that can be a bit expensive. Among other things, the term "sackbut" is a modern name used to make sure you are talkiong about the period trombone. I Germany Pezelius wrote for Three tromboni, the oldest name for sackbut are; trombone.

In a modern orchestra you play alto if the conducter tell you to, or you figure you make the part better that way.
13  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: alto or tenor: Leonore #3 on: Apr 30, 2017, 05:15AM
Eh, there is no chanse of getting it hostoricly correct. The trombone in Beethovens time was still small bore, no lead pipe, no conically gooseneck, actually more like sackbuts then modern trombones in many ways except more of a flair on the bell.

Use the horn that you can make the music best musically.
14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Beer while practicing on: Apr 28, 2017, 02:43AM
" Zoot how can you play so good when you are so pissed?"
"cause I pracise pissed"
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bringing an Instrument up to Pitch on: Apr 28, 2017, 02:39AM
I have questions on a related note. My ~1978 Conn 88H, which has always been fine (1/2" or so of the tuning slide pulled), is now flat. I took it and had the leadpipe pulled, and some minor dents removed (no solder was disturbed). Now all the tuning slides are all the way in, and still flat.  I figure it has to be something regarding the leadpipe. They had an 88h pipe at the shop and put a collar on for a press fit to replace my rotted one. I got a Shires 2 pressfit pipe later, plays better but still flat.

I guess I can start cutting, but I'd like to understand why it changed. Could it really have gotten that much longer?
Sounds like there is some witchcraft involved.
Unless you have drasticly changed you playing or suddenly got a bigger mouth cavity, the horns must have changed some way. :)
The lenght can not have changed that much.

My guess is that something is stuck in the horn somewhere. In the elad pipe? Somewhere in the horn.
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bringing an Instrument up to Pitch on: Apr 27, 2017, 09:46AM
I did that on some oldies, tubas and euphoniums and trombones. Two centimeter. Then you may have the possibility to have a little room for tuning. Very little actually.
100 cent is almost 16 centimeters all together, 8 centimeters on the slide. 50 cent is about 4 centimeters on the slide (50 cent lower then 440 is 430 so 25 cent lower would be about 435) 25 cent lower would be allmost 2 centimeter on the slide.
So to make a 25 (435) cent low horn you cut 2 centimeter on all four legs to make it 25 cent higher (440).
17  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Developing centred notes on: Apr 24, 2017, 10:50AM
Leif you have a beautiful sound. Because you have been listening so much to good sounds, that is why you have a good consept.
18  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: I recorded with my C-trombone, please comment :-) on: Apr 20, 2017, 07:17AM
Hi Tom. I hear to much tongue, in the begining and often the end of tones. Pratice more air attacks, the toungue should never be necceary to start a tone, it just make the articualtion more clear, smoth i this music. Also practise ending tones' just stopping the air. Without collapsing the embouchure. Six tones. Just like some hornplayers you start the phrases soft a little weak, and with a crescendo, I guess you like it the way, well, are you sure about that? May it is because of the small bore that you are a bit unfamilar with? The sound can be more open I think. This romantic music could use a little vibrato In my oppinion, try it with a small jaw vibrato. In the last part of the longer tones.(Well it is called lip vibrato, it isnīt really, as the lip trills are not really lip trills either.) Sometimes your attack is a tad early, listen to that in the first take.

Wery nice playing Tom, you do play the music with much respect (maybe to much?) good in tune, you do make a good job of matching the prerecorded keyboard, you know the music well, the recording sounds good.

Well done!
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Good MP for switching between bass and tenor on: Apr 17, 2017, 08:24AM
It is not really helping you to know what I do, but I play bass trombone on a mpc like 1 1/G large tenor like 5G small tenor on like 11C tuba on like 18.

That is about typically for many doublers.
I have tried to find short cuts, but for me there is non.
20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Good MP for switching between bass and tenor on: Apr 17, 2017, 03:01AM
It depends on how good bass trombone and how tenor trombone you want to play. It is possible to play a basstrombone with a 4G, and possible to play a tenor on the same mpc. It will not be the bass trombone sound, but it may work in many playing situations. Not all. There are some strong players using 4G on tenor. Not many. One solution is to use the same rim on different underpart, works for some. The best doublers use different mouthpieces all together, using more more practising hours.
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