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1  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS/T: Shires Large Bore (Thayer) $2399 shipped Conus on: Yesterday at 05:56 PM
Pictures! (...finally...)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B21VppW4hdQeb2I2ZEhvTkFZemc?usp=sharing
2  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: What is your Favorite orchestral piece to play? on: Aug 14, 2017, 09:46AM
Reflecting on the thigns I actually was able to play, I have to say that Symphonic Metamorphosis was definitely among the most fun things I played with an orchestra.
3  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Conical Design on: Aug 12, 2017, 12:04PM
:). Ha!

Let me be more specific.  Why can't we have a  slide euphonium?

See here and here!

Quote from: Robb Stewart
For this page, I'm digging even deeper into my archives.  Very early in my career, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, there were a surprising number of Los Angeles trumpet players that were doubling on slide trumpet.  One influence was the Moravian trombone choir, led by the Philharmonic bass trombonist, Jeff Reynolds.  This was an ensemble of slide trombones from soprano in Eb to contrabass in BBb.   The musicianship was consistently high, attracting many professionals.  Several commercial players had also taken up the slide trumpet, including Chuck and Bob Findlay, and Maynard Ferguson was also very influential with his Firebird trumpet.  Both Larry Minick and Dominic Calicchio were making slide trumpets to satisfy local demands and it wasn't long before some of the younger guys approached me about making them.  The only inexpensive alternative at the time was the Getzen made in the 1960s, which was never intended to be a high grade instrument.  There were antique slide cornets around, but prices were already rising.  My first attempt, in 1978, was made by cutting down a small bore (.468") trombone slide and attaching a cornet bell.  It was playable, but not a very good instrument.  I also made a trumpet with three valves and a full length slide, like a soprano version of the Holton Superbone.  This was a disaster and my first lesson about not deviating too far from proven acoustic design.

I decided that it was not such a good idea to have my name associated with such inferior instruments and for the next one, I made up new slide tubes and the rest of the parts were new Olds trumpet and trombone.  I made about 10 of these over a few years and most had the F valve as pictured here.  In 1984, I was approached by trombonist Eugene Lebeaux, who wanted to play solos on flugelhorn as well as trombone.  He asked me to make him a slide flugelhorn.  This came to mind recently when a request was made for me to make a slide euphonium and I also discuss the impossibility of making a slide tuba on my contrabass trombone
page.
 

In all three cases, the nature of the instruments is largely determined by a taper through most of the instrument's length, ending in a rather large bell.  It is impossible to retain the character of flugelhorn, euphonium or tuba with a long enough slide to play the full range chromatically.  My suggestion to Lebeaux was the instrument pictured here.  This is certainly not a slide flugelhorn, but has the widest bell possible on a soprano trombone, has a dual bore (.438/.460") slide and takes a flugelhorn mouthpiece. Both the deep cup of the mouthpiece and the wide bell flare contribute to a much darker timbre than typical trumpets and cornets.  While not what we know as a flugelhorn sound, it is distinct from the brighter sounding instruments.  This is the bell that was designed for use on Olds bugle corps bugles in G and is also used on Kanstul Stadium and Wild Thing trumpets.  It was very successful and I believe that Lebeaux still plays it today.

While we're in the mood for pushing boundaries: The next photo is a piccolo trombone or slide trumpet that I made more as a novelty or experiment.  This was at the time that Larry Minick was still making slide trumpets, mostly in Bb, but a few in soprano Eb that used his own piccolo trumpet bells.  We both knew that this was the upper limits for a practical instrument, but I really wanted to know what could really be done with a true piccolo trombone in Bb.  It actually does play well enough to be used in performances if used judiciously.  I eventually sold it to John Schoolcraft of the Make Believe Brass (playing at Disneyland at the time) for use in their trombone quintet in which it was only brought out to surprise even the most savvy audience that wouldn't have known that such a thing existed.  I had previously made a pair of slide trumpets with F valve similar to the top photo, that they would use for most pieces, the piccolo was only occasionally taken out of John's pocket just for fun.


Quote from: 'Robb Stewart'
These two contrabass trombones are all new (not modified used instruments) and somewhat unique designs.  Both are for playing the same contrabass trombone range, but each has it's own twist.  The first shown here was made in 1995 for the great Los Angeles session bass trombonist, Bill Reichenbach, after many discussions about the particulars of the design and what he wanted to achieve with it.   Anybody who has played a trombone with a double slide will understand Bill's reluctance to utilize this feature, but he thought that needing to use a handle on a long single slide would be worse.  I convinced him that there are advantages gained by putting the four slide tubes in a single plane rather than the usual, side by side, design seen in BBb and CC trombones.  Not only is it slightly lighter, but it necessitates less tube length, allowing a relatively longer bell section.   Keep in mind that even though this trombone is the same pitch as an Eb tuba, it has the slide positions of an alto trombone.  Another unusual feature is that it has 8 full positions in Eb rather than the usual 7 and a good 6 positions in BBb.  He wanted the valves set up exactly as on his regular work horse bass trombones, both the lever positions and the relative pitch changes (BBb and GG).  It also seemed ideal to have the bell in a "normal" relation to the player, although Bill does not need to gauge his slide positions by the rim.  If you look closely, you might not find the main tuning slide.  The upper crook on the slide pulls out for cleaning and has a very short allowance for tuning.  This worked out well since this instrument is intended strictly for use in the studio where the environment is predictable,  both in temperature and tuning of other players.  Bill has used this instrument on all his recording gigs that called for contrabass trombone.  Most of the important parts needed for this trombone were supplied by Zig Kanstul.  The bell is intended for his marching baritone horn and the crooks and tubes were for various tubas.  Zig specially made the slide tubes including chrome plating the inside tubes (.605" bore).  The cork barrels are Olds bass trombone, although I had to make the oversize bell and slide receiver and nut assembly.  The rotary valves (.656" bore) are the same that are made for my Eb tubas by Joe Marcinkiewicz and the lever assembly I made to copy those made for Bill's Conn 62H by George Strucel many years ago.  I honestly don't remember what I used for the mouthpipe, but something appropriate for the bore size and a tuba mouthpiece.  When Bill came to pick up the instrument, I was prepared for the fact that I might have to make some adjustments and I hoped that there would be nothing major to re-do.  He picked it up and put it to his mouth and played it as if he had been playing it all his life.  He is that kind of a musician; he can play any brass instrument well.  He has used this trombone for many recording sessions.  The fifth photo shows Bill prominently holding this trombone in the studio during a recording session for "Batman Forever" taken from Malcolm McNab's website.

The second case here precedes the first by eleven years (1984) and is related both in the fact that it is Eb as well as the fact that Bill Reichenbach borrowed this one when we were in the discussion phase of designing his.  This trombone was made for Paul Chauvin, a fabulous tuba and trombone player, best known as member of Make Believe Brass which originated at Disneyland.  This group was of a higher level of musicianship than one might expect from that park.  Anyway, Paul asked me if I could make him a "slide tuba" for times when the MBB would all play slide trombones and slide trumpets.  He wanted more than a bass trombone sound.  I told him that it was impossible to have the large tapered body of even a small tuba in combination with the long cylindrical tubing needed for a trombone slide.  I suggested that an interesting compromise might be to use a euphonium bell and body attached to a normal bass trombone slide.  This would give him five and a half slide positions and I added the third, whole step, valve to make up for the missing hand slide length.  One challenge would be holding it in playing position while freely manipulating the three valve levers.  The levers are pushed with the first three fingers of the left hand whilst the thumb and fourth finger are able to grip the bell section securely.  I can't claim that it is the most comfortable instrument to hold, but it works and Paul got some good use out of it.  This trombone was constructed mostly out of Olds parts, as I used in so many of my early projects.  The bell, branches and tuning slide are all for an Olds euphonium.  The hand slide (.562" bore) and rotary valves (.585" bore) are all standard for Olds bass trombones.  The valves are tuned to BBb, AAb with alternate GG slide (dependant on Bb valve) and Db (independant).  It was quite a challenge to design the valve levers to be easily manipulated by the fingers, but I got it to work well.  A big compromise for Paul was giving up a full 7 position glissando.   After some practice, he demonstrated that it was, indeed, possible to release the whole step valve in the middle of a slide glissando, making a good imitation of a full length slide.
4  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Hand rest solutions that have least impact on response on: Aug 12, 2017, 07:03AM
Here are the pictures:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B21VppW4hdQeV3NJVnFjYnVGOW8?usp=sharing

The shop only charged me $5 per ring and didn't even bother for labor because it was so simple.   Good!  The Neotech was about $20.  THe only problem wtih this, of course, is that if your handbrace is lacquered it will be more in labor and if you ever want to sell the slide, you might have to get them moved to fit other people's hands. Mine, likewise, are quite dainty. So for me the its perfect becasue It gives me something to grip and gives a lot mroe control over the instrument.  Worst case scenario, it doesn't work at all and you're out way less than any of the other braces that cost a lot more money.
5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Why Coprion? on: Aug 12, 2017, 06:57AM
THe answer is another question in and of it self: "Why not?" They tried all sorts of stuff we might think retrospectively are a little crazy!  That said, trumpet players still use them today to some degree; Schilke makes them under the name 'Beryllium Bronze' (http://dallasmusic.org/schilke/Bells,%20slides%20and%20finish.html).  If you search Dillon you can place an order for a few models of them. 

One characteristic not yet mentioned is the lack of a seam.  Trombone bells generally are two piece with a seam towards the flare.  Bach bells (and the 'copies' or 'inspirations') are typically one piece with a seam going down the length of the bell.  Electroform bells are seamless.  Its hard to compare the bells for just this characteristic alone but there are differences between the one piece, two piece, and I'd imagine with the seamless.  Evidently trombone manufacturers have either decided this difference isn't something people would generally want or that the cost to get the proper tooling of that size is prohibitive.   Though Rath does offer "bronze" parts, I don't know what the actual makeup is of the material, nor do I believe they are electroformed.  (What we as trombonists call 'red brass' ,90% copper - 10% zinc, is often referred to by other people as bronze in some cases. So he might just be going with the conventional indication.)
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Hand rest solutions that have least impact on response on: Aug 11, 2017, 07:04PM
I don't notice a difference with the Neotech. I just put one on all of my horns, even my small bore tenor. So comfortable.

Aa far as the clamp style ones  are co concerned, I would really be surprised if they made such a difference that it is perceivable in a recording for the vast majority of players (which, of course, means that you could be in tat population!) If I wanted to test it, I would put just the device on the horn without the part your thumb goes on and record it. Then do the same without. Have someone else label the tracks then play them on shuffle and see if the difference is both discernable and secondly negative.

You may be sensitive enough that it makes a difference but even then the"dampening" might not be a bad thing. The placebo effect is pretty strong and if you anticipate something having an influence it will! Actually, on that note, when you record, have someone else attach the brace and blindfold yourself!

Just like adding a counterweight, it might just take some time getting used to as well. In my mind, it boils down to whether or not to you the difference in sound is 1) compensated by extra time you could  practice and play in general without injury, 2) compensated by increased control over the instrument, and/or 3) actually perceivably less desirable.

It seems like there are plenty of people that 1,2,and 3 don't apply. I'm definitely not one of them.

For what it's worth, another mod I recently had added were two trumpet pinky hooks on the upper slide brace. One on top, the other on the bottom. My fingers do t have to stretch at all to grip the slide. Super comfortable. If I remember, I'll post pictures tomorrow.
7  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Resting the horn on your shoulder. on: Aug 11, 2017, 10:49AM

Ahhh that's pretty cool. I may have to construct one of these 'deadly weapons' to give it a shot  ;-)
8  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Resting the horn on your shoulder. on: Aug 10, 2017, 12:06PM
List member naj invented a counterbalance support that totally removes the weight of the horn.

It was a rod that connected to the balance point of the horn and extended back over your shoulder, with a weight on the end. 

He patented it but did not manufacture because it looked too weaponized. 

I built one but had trouble with the connection and with slipping off my shoulder.  I still think it has promise especially for awkward instruments like a valve trombone.  The weight was far enough back it only took one pound to balance my 42B. 

Sorry for the veer off topic. 

I don't remember seeing that? Was there a thread on it here? Would be interested in seeing that!
9  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Leadpipes on: Aug 09, 2017, 11:53AM
It's probably just smooth. I don't recommend twisting, you may end up either really wedging the leadpipe threads closed or worst case scenario tearing the leadpipe with enough time. Just drop it in. Just don't hold your horn upside down and it'll be fine  ;-)
10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Replacement slide for a New York Bach 6 model. VII on: Aug 08, 2017, 03:46AM
Why not remove the existing broken leadpipe and set the slide up for removable pipes?
Worst case is that you may need to replace the upper inner tube, which still preserves most of the original slide. With the many .485 pipes already available, you can fine tune the sound to your liking. Old Bach trombones are not like antiques, and the modification would add to rather than detract from the horn's value.

485 tube might be hard to come by that would work with the existing out er slide though.

I don't know if such a mod would make a horn more valuable. There are lots of people who want as close to original as they can. On the other hand, It isn't a museum piece! Meant to be played and if that means replacing the leadpipe I wouldn't let that alone stop me
11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Eastman Bass Trombone Case vs Protec Pro pac Bass Trombone Case on: Aug 08, 2017, 03:11AM
I'm a big fan of the Eastman cases (but I'm also bias as I'm selling a protec at the moment  ;-)) I've seen them fit overhead before but it was on a big plane. I'd imagine if a protective fits overhead the Eastman will but if one won't fit then the other won't either. The bells are meant to accommodate up to 10.5bells so they're both over a foot in diameter at the bottom.

The Eastman are lighter and to me easier to carry. They're also watertight for times when you're carrying in rain. I make up for the lost space by putting oil in the main compartment above the bell and then using a mouthpieces pouch to store my mouthpieces and I nest that in the valve section of the horn.

12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Sizing on: Aug 07, 2017, 11:00AM
Quote
I'm no David Vinning, but I know what works for me ... and many others.

Maybe!  Its easy to assume you do but unless you've been formally trained in the physiology of breathing, that you may not be doing it right (or that something incidentally works for others, or at least gives the perception that it does). Breathing pedagogy is a major component of most music ed programs; I even had to take a breathing proficiency, diagnosing common problems that most students will face --- and those habits don't die when you become an adult.

Part of Vining's pedagogy, or at least what he mentioned when he did a masterclass at my school, was creating an accurate "body map" -- that is, knowing what is actually inside of your body.  He very strongly cautioned against using metaphors that created anti-body maps or things that were physiologically impossible - such as breathing through your toes.  Its an understandable shorthand, but given the plethora options out there for showing students what actually happens, there isn't much of a reason to substitute and students can easily overcompensate, attempting to follow imprecise instructions. 
13  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: best mouthpiece for jazz? on: Aug 07, 2017, 10:04AM
hi!

i play a king 3b and a selmer paris MB-40 with a vincent bach 6 1/2 AL, i am thinking on trying a new mouthpiece, what do you think is the best for playing jazz?

:)

Generally, anything that at least someone else plays ranging from a 1.06" rim through a .96" rim size and a cup depth that is around the depth of your current piece or a little shallower.

That's about as good as you're going to get. If there was one mouthpiece that would work universally for jazz, there wouldn't be thousands of options!
14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: 2G or not 2G ? That is the question. on: Aug 07, 2017, 04:01AM
picked up a Greg BLack 2G after alternating between an Elliott 110/L and a G&W Chinook w/ Elliott 110 rim.  I stil like the 110 for some things, but I mostly do commercial stuff at the moment on bass so the 2GM works very well for me. Especially as a doubler.  The I don't like the wider rims though --- of course, that has something to do with the sound though.  How wide of a rim is your Mt. Vernon 2G?  I'm wondering if some of the 'magic' for some might be a wider rim. It cuts down on my flexibility but on the whole, I'm not dissatisfied. Just not totally used to it either.
15  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS: Bach dual bore 547-562 slide on: Aug 06, 2017, 05:20PM
This looks really similar to a slide I sold a few years ago. If its the same slide, this one does play well.  I do like a little nickel in my slides and the upper tube being nickel seems to give it a well balanced tone. Not too 'dark', not too 'bright' even with the lower .562 leg. FWIW!
-Matt
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Sizing on: Aug 06, 2017, 07:09AM
Could that be due to the number 13 being associated with bad luck? Or creating an element of doubt in the players mind, especially after playing a few clams?

And are there any successful m/p's with 13 as a model number? Hmm...



Hammond, though its sizes are definitely different than Bach's system!
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: ProTec vs Bags of Spain on: Aug 05, 2017, 01:16PM
I had one awhile back. I don't know if they've changed their lineup, but I wouldn't fly with it if they're like the old ones.  The one I had was really similar to the BAM cases which were all foam at the time.  So they were generally protective, or at least more so than a gig bag, but not necessarily airline proof.  If I were flying, I'd get an Eastman bass case.  They're also pretty lightweight, lighter than the leather Cronkhite bags at least.  Or get a gig bag and use a golf case when you fly and just assume you'll check it.  I mostly use a Cronkhite now and put it in the golf bag when I'm traveling with it or putting it somewhere where something like a suitcase might need to go on it.
18  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS/T: Protec Bass Case $195 shipped on: Aug 05, 2017, 01:13PM
It says "ProPac" on it and looks exactly like this one. Pictures will be posted shortly  :-0
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Replacement slide for a New York Bach 6 model. VII on: Aug 05, 2017, 01:01PM
Ah, I see what you are suggesting. You didn't mean just any old slide, you wanted one that was more or less identical.  That's harder because the lengths are a little different, or at least they were on my Mt. Vernon horns - I've owned two small bore Mt. Vernons over the years - compared to contemporary ones.  Although the difference wasn't that much. 

I did have a Shires slide with a small reciever on it. I'm not sure what horn it was intended for but it fit my Bach 6 bell section perfectly. Problem was that it was a 508/525 slide and longer as well as wider than the Bach 9 slide I had that bell section paired with.  It made the Bach 6 bell very flat but it played like a dream as far as how open it was!

Your best option may be to find someone (MK maybe?) who can draw tubes and have them ship that to you and get a local repairperson to replace the upper slide inner + outer as well as the leadpipe.   I did that to a King 3B with good results (added a 2b+ upper) and has the advantage that if you don't like it, you could switch back to the original tube or deal with getting the leadpipe pulled without needing to ship the whole horn somewhere. You could also add a Shires threaded collar to it. It isn't as likely to play like the original but then again, it might work better for you than the original did, although that isn't a totally valid comparison if your mouthpiece receiver is damaged.
20  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / FS/T: Protec Bass Case $195 shipped on: Aug 05, 2017, 10:04AM
I used this for awhile last year but switched to a Cronkhite + SKB Golf case for when I need more protection.  This case is a little on the heavy side but does have a side pocket, a pouch on the interior for oils/greases, and two mouthpiece slots. Very spacious and protective.  Will post pictures later today.

Willing to do a partial trade for the items listed in this thread:
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,101409.0.html
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