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1088305 Posts in 71904 Topics- by 19303 Members - Latest Member: erin3140
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1  Practice Break / Food and Drink / Re: Butter in coffee, etc on: Yesterday at 09:24 PM
I use a frother too
2  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Mouthpiece/horn synergy on: Yesterday at 11:38 AM
Well, advertising material isn't necessarily indicative of reality.  Obligatory "teutonic" tone quality reference.  I can think of three players who do not use their signature mouthpieces unless at a sponsored event, though I'm not at liberty to say who they are. 

Of course, I don't think the OP is proposing that its the best fit for everyone, and the Remington pieces are loved by some. I don't know if you can get much more of an inference out of the 88 as it relates to this topic.
3  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Mouthpiece/horn synergy on: Yesterday at 06:03 AM
Out of curiosity: Where do you find this information, re: designed piece(s) for your horn?

I don't think that' official but given that the T396 is Alessi's signature horn and the 1C is described as:

This is Joseph Alessi's "work horse" mouthpiece. He plays the 1C for day-to-day playing. This configuration provides the carrying power necessary to sit on top of the low brass, as well as a warmth of sound and resonance in all registers.

That it is TOO big of a stretch to suggest there was some level of integration of the two.
4  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: New Bach 42t with a gold Mount Vernon style bell on: Yesterday at 05:52 AM
I went ahead and merged the identical topics.  We don't allow bump posts in the classifieds, but it hasn't been enforced very strictly and you're new so so a merge should be fine for now.  I'll remove future bump posts though!  We also typically frown on comments but for the sake of clarifying something that is an important aspect its fine.

A few comments as to why you're being met with resistance:

"Mount Vernon" manufactured horns are quite rare, if not special, particularly sine they haven't been manufactured in over 50 years at this point. "Duplication" of a bell isn't as straightforward as making a mandrel of a particular shape; the source material thickness all the way through the manufacturing process is quite important.  So describing something thusly is going to be met with skepticism unless there is evidence (perhaps even an correspondence from Bach that could at least be verified by someone interested?) to support that claim.

Similarly, or perhaps instead, a description of why or how the bell is thinner, or more "Mt. Vernon" like than any other bell produced since then. (Bell gauge, actual weight comparison,e tc.) I can't find the source on this at the moment, but its been reported by some of the techs here that a 42[Y] and a 42G bell actually start with different weights such that if you compare the two bells you're comparing both weight and bell material.  (The thread should have something to do with adding a brass weight to the bell near the stem. A "scientific" study of bell weight (and ONLY the weight) influencing sound... it was an interesting read to say the least...). Or, very generally, weights would be something like 42LW -> 42GLW -> 42 -> 42G -> 42H -> 42GH. Or in other words, this bell is probably improperly stamped as it would have to be on the opposite side of its normal spectrum of weight to be "much lighter than that of a regular light weight bell". Or it would have had to have been buffed a LOT to remove weight (in which case it would be clarifying about the process; although that would be quite the revelation that Mt. Vernon horns were heavy bells that had been buffed down substantially, etc.)

I'm sure it plays well. I have a similar horn for sale at the moment on Brassark.  Its one of the first Shires trombones produced (serial # in the 1000s).  Its from a time when heavy was in vogue, and the bell (unstamped, so just a regular "1" bell from the era) is quite heavy.  But the horn plays marvelously!  Not my cup of tea, but the horn plays very well with itself. I could easily see if I were to not know anything about its specs that I would call it a "light" horn. In other words, this ad might be the culmination of a version of "the telephone game" where one truth gets turned into something slightly off, etc. until "Mt. Vernon like" basically means the horn plays well and its a little thinner than a normal gold bell, etc.  I could be quite wrong about that! But any evidence that you can provide is going to help your case out for sure! Good luck selling it and if you'd like, perhaps start a thread on "instruments" about it because recording such an anomaly may well help someone similar in the future. Especially with some substantiating documents etc.  We love hearing about those types of things.
5  Town Hall / Announcements / Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Classified Bot on: Dec 09, 2017, 02:33PM
Bot is fixed, courtesy of my procrastinating on studying for my final  ;-)  Down to 15 pages in the classifieds  :-0

Will get back with everybody that's messaged me recently very soon, very very sorry for the delay. We're finally getting settled back down and I only have a few more pieces of IKEA furniture to assemble!
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: bach 36 conversion to shires leadpipes on: Dec 09, 2017, 02:19PM
Interesting, I thought the Shires slides were basically 508 all the way up.  The large shank actually worked better than I imagined although I definitely don't use that setup anymore either.
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Mouthpiece/horn synergy on: Dec 09, 2017, 02:17PM
I definitely did not have the same experience playing on the Pete Sullivan mpc on the Xeno that I played for a number of years! (E.g. definitely neither was a good match for me).I did play an 8820 not too long ago and on a cup similar to the Sullivan (which itself is sort of 5GSish) it worked better than other, deeper cups in my arsenal.  (I used a Shires 6.5AL (large shank) threaded for XT rims.  More on that in a second.)

I also tried some of the 600 series Yamahas not too long ago with a Nils piece that was threaded for Doug's rims.  It worked similarly well with that setup vs. other similar cups (doug's C+ was the other I tried). Better than deeper and shallower (XT A & a Shires 5GS underpart threaded for his rims).

Backbore is very important. There's a reason Doug has so many options, and evidently the AR pieces even more.  Beyond the cup, I matched the shank as much as I could too.  That is, for 508 bore, a #3 in Doug's size. For the Xeno, I used a Shires 6.5AL threaded for Ellott rims.  The Shires 6.5AL basically has a small shank backbore attached to a large shank receiver --- Just like the Sullivan mpc. 

In other words, my experience leads me to believe there is at least some benefit to designing both in tandem. On the other hand, I also have yet to find anything that works better for me than Doug's rims and largely Doug's underparts too.  But I've had some success with other underparts for certain applications (like the Shires 6.5AL  mentioned earlier).  Obviously if you aren't in the 'large' rim camp your experience might even be better with signature pieces on smaller horns. The bottom line that I think you'd have a lot of trouble finding someone to disagree with is that at least the backbore and the cup have to play nice with the leadpipe ad bore of the slide.  If you can get that right, you're probably in good shape.
8  Teaching & Learning / Schools, Colleges and Conservatories / Re: Help Wanted: Topic for Scholarship Essay on: Dec 07, 2017, 04:50PM
Here is some food for thought without giving you a topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics#Business_ethics

In particular, you might want to focus on the difference between Deontology and Utilitarianism. I took a debate class that most of the groups chose to argue from one of those perspectives, and consequently against the other assuming that the opposition took the other view. You may also wish to do some research on egoism as that is another popular ethical framework.  Basically, if you approach an essay from an actual established framework you'll do well. I bet a lot of people won't enter with this knowledge and attempt to build their own framework which probably won't go over too well.  Utilitarianism is probably the easiest to argue from (e.g. it is unethical to use engraving software because it puts people out of jobs, etc.) (I'd recommend not using that that one, btw!).
9  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Plastic Mouthpiece for 30F Concert... Worth It? on: Dec 05, 2017, 08:44PM
Note that the Kelly mouthpieces tend to run larger than their specs would otherwise indicate. At least on their trumpet pieces, I can't speak of their trombone ones. The 3C is evidently very close to a 1.5C and I'm told most of the trumpet mouthpieces are basically one size larger.  Sometimes plastic pieces feel smaller than brass ones so that may explain partially why why that is.
10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Double valve tenor on: Dec 05, 2017, 05:43PM
For fun, I build a double valve Eb-Bb-G tenor.  Kinda like a bass trombone and a tenor are both in Bb, this is an Eb tenor.  I had to take it apart to fix a valve issue a could of years ago and haven't put it back together yet.  My whole point was for a pit instrument.  If I put a screw flare on it, I think I could get it into a 24 X 17 x 4 briefcase.


Have you ever posted pictures of that? I'd love to see that!
11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Plastic Mouthpiece for 30F Concert... Worth It? on: Dec 04, 2017, 08:10PM
I purchased a lexan rim from Doug for that every reason in 2011.  I decided to try it out and was hooked from that moment. I rarely play metal rims unless I simply down't own something in that size anymore!  Glad I did marching band, oddly enough, since  probably wouldn't have ordered one otherwise (why fix something not broken!?)
12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Double valve tenor on: Dec 03, 2017, 09:55AM
I have a two-valve section for my Shires. I absolutely love it. It is dependent and sometimes I wonder if I wouldn't have been better off making it dependent because there are some cool combinations you can get with a G valve, for example, that would make more sense than they would on a bass in some ways. Certainly the lower stuff isn't as important as bass in most circumstances.  For example, if you have a tenor and a bass, you probably will play something like a cello suite on a bass. Or at least that's my tendency.

Now, my love for it doesn't necessarily mean it was the most prudent acquisition that I've made.  In hindsight, I would have been better of doing something with the funds.  I originally wanted to build a smallish bass that felt just a touch tighter than a Duo Gravis and have a really good tenor/bass setup built around that valve.  I had a 9" bell for it and it played very well but it was not a bass.  Basically any bass trombone functions better than it did as a bass.  In my estimation. It would have been a very fine instrument as a second bass for occasions that warranted something smaller... swing dance exclusive set, 3rd to an alto, etc.  But even then, I was in a swing dance band and one of my former professors commented that even for Miller charts, the bass I was using gave me a better commercial style sound. So it goes.

The nice thing about it is that it does give me a very clean access to the low B natural and any time I'm practicing flexibility it gives a very easy access into the lower register. I still like practicing that range on a tenor and on a bass because they are very different and playing one seems to help the other.  It also is very nice to have access to that rage on an instrument meant for improvising. I have a 525/547 slide made for it that I would necessarily play for lead in a big band but works very well for combo work.  

Of course, take that with a grain of salt. But I would say that in my direct experience, you would do better having a double bass and a single tenor. Because the cost of the additional rotor + tubing + linkages, etc. you would be well on your way to having a bass.
13  Town Hall / Announcements / Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Classified Bot on: Nov 29, 2017, 07:19AM
Hey all, so I've been deleting stuff manually for awhile.  One of the dependencies of my bot got updated and it broke it!  It isn't a hard fix but it will take some time.  I'd have fixed it sooner but I've been in the process of moving and doing a final project for a class! Yikes! At any rate, I'm now in Salt Lake City (met a couple of forum members already too, cool scene out here!).  My class ends in a few days and I'll take a look at it then, promise!  In the meantime, keep putting those messages if something sells and I'll try to be diligent about removing it.


14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Axials Vs Rotors Is it Really Worth It? on: Nov 28, 2017, 10:58PM
Ben Griffin has a very good post on this in the Shires Q&A, but its buried in there somewhere maybe around page 30.  In short, they typically put the valves on a spectrum where thayers are the most broad at the expense of some degree of articulation. Rotors are the opposite with a focused sound that has easy articulations at the expense of some depth of sound.  A neckpipe basically splits the difference between these two and a Tru-bore is a little bit more towards the Thayers whereas the Dual-bore rotor is a little bit towards the traditional rotary.

In general that largely matches my experience. But I will say that they aren't necessarily interchangeable in the sense that the horn is a collection of its parts. I have a Shires for sale at the moment on consignment at the brassark.  TB4762/Thayer/1Y.  One of the first ones made.  Awesome horn.  Not my cup of tea, but really good player. (I like my T47LW,2RVET7,Rotor).  But when I swapped out the rotors between these horns, I liked neither of the horns.  Neither worked as well.  Swap the slides out but keep the bell and it gets closer, etc. etc. 

Or in other words, its hard to compare valves by themselves because the horn is the sum of its parts.  Too much depth and its really hard to articulate. Too much crispness and its too bright. A matter of finding goldilocks for you.  I'd suggest changing the valve only if you've first made sure the current valve on the horn is in good working condition and if you want to make a change in the direction that I paraphrased from Ben earlier.  That's the definite benefit... and detriment... of modular horns. You can try a graident until it works... or the horn itself is no longer playable (in extreme cases).
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Wessex 7B Copy on: Nov 28, 2017, 10:47PM
Obligatory "make sure it doesn't have leaks" suggestions.  You might be surprised how much a leak can make something play out of place.  :-0
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Technology / Re: Anyone can unlock your Mac by typing "root" on: Nov 28, 2017, 10:30PM
Interesting. Mac is an UNIX and that's *sort of* the standard for other UNIX machines. Except when you setup those operating systems, normally you are required to set a password for root and cannot continue unless you set one or go through a mildly tedious process to disable the password. I've never even tried to not set a root password on any machine I've setup but I imagine if you went through the process, you'd end up with a 'null' password, and have the same 'bug' even though it is technically intended in that circumstance.
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: A valve concept I've been conteplating for a while.... on: Nov 27, 2017, 06:10AM

No one has ever successfully used a tuning slide valve.

That's the picture I was thinking of! I'd also forgotten about the Bach with the drop in Eb valve.
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: A valve concept I've been conteplating for a while.... on: Nov 26, 2017, 07:39PM
There are horns that are kind of like that.  I can't seem to find a picture of them, but mostly altos. It isn't unheard of to put the rotors for those in the tuning slide such that if you were wanting to play without the rotor, they are basically modular, a feat that is more difficult to handle on altos.  

As others have mentioned, the downsides to this are that the tuning slide is a very important aspect of the design.  The taper of the tuning slide bow can greatly influence how the horn feels. E.g. the difference between the Shires taper and their "X" taper, nevermind the differences between single and dual radius bows, their material, etc. etc. Putting a rotor in the middle of that effectively eliminates a lot of the magic you can do with a tuning slide. If you were to put it in the leg, as the altos I mentioned do, you still get to retain that.

Another issue is that the tuning slide itself is heavier and will likely naturally lower by itself unless kept up by some other mechanical means.  That also means the linkage has to be of a variable length.  

The benefit you might get is similar to that of a counterweight.  The weight would be distributed perhaps a little better than if the tubing were protroduing.  However, note that in your design you'll also have to bend the tubing of the attachment a little so they don't run into the main bell braces.

That's generally the reason rotors are placed where tehy are. Actually, there's a really good thread from a few years ago where someone proposed something that is essentially the opposite of that. I don't recall in what context but it might have been in relation to the quadro slides.  In a nutshell, you find most brass instruments with their pitch changing devices very close to the mouthpiece. Think of a Euphonium; you're talking about being inches away, not feet away.  The idea was to put the rotors before the slide or some kind of arrangement where its ontop of both of the inners.  Its an interesting idea. Sort of like a superbone in some respects... that way you get the valves to change the pitch as if it were a longer slide instead of being a larger bore.

Food for though.  Also, there's been lots of R&D put into placement!  Its kind of funny to be coming from me, but sometimes convention works  :D
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Nov 25, 2017, 03:19AM
Stork, Hammond, and Doing Elliott seem to get consistently good reviews about the quality of their gold plating. They don't do the plating themselves but send batches to be plated and do prep work. I've used Doug in the past and the plating quality was very good. Price should be south of $133 although maybe the price of gold has risen a lot recently.
20  Town Hall / Comments and Suggestions / Re: Suggestion: Dark Mode on: Nov 22, 2017, 03:37PM
Unfortunately, we don't have access to the backends of the website. I doubt that'll be implemented, but I do know of some addoms for popular browsers. Which one do you use? I might be able o recommend one.
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