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973868 Posts in 64652 Topics- by 15820 Members - Latest Member: Pasuuna
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1  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Notes - Euph. vs Trombone? on: Mar 25, 2015, 02:07PM
What generally gets referred to as "resistance" on TTF is actually acoustic impedance.  Resistance is what we feel when blowing through the instrument without buzzing and only comes into play in airflow through pipes at much higher velocities than we can blow.

There's a "physics" answer in there somewhere, but damned if I know what it is.

Some of it is in here:  http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/z.html  , with the key sentence being:
The acoustic impedance of an instrument for any particular fingering is one of the major factors which determines the acoustic response of the instrument in that fingering. It determines which notes can be played with that fingering, how stable they are and it also helps determine whether they are in tune. 

At the bottom right of the web page there are some plots of impedance spectra for different instruments, a cylinder and a cone. The differences illustrate that the shape of the instrument has a significant effect on its response.  The theory of response based on shape would be very complex, but based on this I think we should expect a euphonium to respond very differently to any trombone.


2  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Something to mess around with on: Mar 12, 2015, 02:44AM
Have you investigated a theremin ?
3  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Does the single tonguing section in Arbans complete method for trombone work? on: Mar 11, 2015, 12:51AM
There may be an issue with tension in the throat and back of the tongue which is slowing you down. 
If you think there might be, check out this old thread...

4  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Pedagogical Myths on: Mar 10, 2015, 05:27PM
Corners aren't used in coronet playing????
That's pretty much how I recall it. The muscles that got tired playing the cornet were around the middle of my mouth - I never experienced tiredness in the corners as they weren't doing much.  This may have been a result of using too much mouthpiece pressure as a proxy for developing a properly strong embouchure.  I eventually decided that I just wasn't very well suited to it. (Life might have been different if it hadn't taken me 20 years to figure that out !)

I should say that my focus is playing a large bore trombone in a brass band, so the "good tone" I'm aiming for is toward the symphonic end of the scale.

Bill Watrous plays a lot in what is for most people the trumpet register. I'm guessing he somehow manages to play with a trumpet-like embouchure on an 11C-ish mouthpiece. I bet he would sound better than resonable playing a trumpet.
5  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Pedagogical Myths on: Mar 10, 2015, 02:22PM
That characteristic may be linked to DNA, but it still could possibly be improved upon.
In my case it's probably linked to 20 years of trying to play the cornet.  I think that gave me strength but limited flexibility in the centre of my mouth and not so much strength at the corners as those muscles weren't used so much. I've spent 5 years on trombone trying to build strength at the corners and flexibility in the middle  ( and still working on it).
6  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Pedagogical Myths on: Mar 09, 2015, 12:48PM
Good tone comes from playing correctly.

But playing loudly can be a way to improve the correctness of playing.  And once learned, it can be possible to transfer the correct playing to quieter dynamics. 

Theory based on what seems to work for me (YMMV):
I think sometimes poor tone is the result of the lips not buzzing across the full inside diameter of the mouthpiece, or with the lower lip buzzing less than it should be.  This is a sign of insufficient embouchure strength and flexibility. The best way to build strength may be to practice at a higher volume (e.g. mf or f rather than mp).
I think the most important thing to remember is Sabutin's point that in order to play well the player needs to build "resistance at the lips".
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: What have I found??? on: Feb 28, 2015, 05:21PM
A little more detail.
Euphonium writing is varied. It includes a lot of octave doubling of solo cornets, bass parts, counter melodies and florid accompaniments. There are 2 euphoniums usually playing from the same part but with often solos and division. The principal euphoniumist is one of the main soloists in the band.

Baritones play from separate parts 1st and 2nd. They typically play tenor voiced parts, sometimes team up with the euphoniums particularly for a tenor like melody or counter melody. They also play lighter accompaniments that need to blend in such a way that wouldn't be possible on a euphonium. These accompaniments can be very intricate. A first baritone player is more than a 3rd euphonium player. They can form a lower extension to the tenor horns. It is harder to make a baritone project as a solo instrument when the horns, trombones and euphs are all playing. Consequently, the baritone is lest frequently featured as a soloist.

This is a very polite way of saying that there is a standing joke among players of other instruments that  baritone and Eb horn players are specialists in playing off-beats.  Evil
The extent to which this is true depends on the laziness of the arranger.  Some more recent test-pieces for brass band have challenging parts for all players.
8  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: British Brass Bands on: Feb 24, 2015, 12:22PM
...in the days when the whole band stood around the conductor in a circle at contests...

Not sure why you used the past tense. It still happens...

If they used french horns the bell wouldn't collect rain.
9  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: British Brass Bands on: Feb 23, 2015, 02:37PM
But if you were designing a brass band, from scratch, what would you change?

For a start, ban the snare drum from being played in anything except marches.   Evil
10  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Australia in Eurovision Song Contest??? on: Feb 12, 2015, 09:58AM
They should open it up to all the former colonies and oppressed territories.

Wouldn't it then include everywhere except Japan and maybe parts of China ?
11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bb? on: Feb 07, 2015, 10:57AM
au contraire, I know at least a dozen people who can sight transpose concert pitch music to their Eb instrument.  I'm not one of them, but then I don't play an Eb instrument either so there's been no need to learn.

It's not always as difficult as it seems. Brass band Eb bass players can read concert pitch bass clef by pretending it's written in Eb treble clef and adjusting the key signature .
12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: How many horns do you own? on: Feb 06, 2015, 10:46AM
Getzen 4047IB Bousfield 2014
Conn 88h 1969
88h 1959
88h 1967
8h 1967

Hi Tim
It would be great if you could do a review of the Getzen, using the Conns as a reference point.
13  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bb? on: Feb 06, 2015, 10:28AM
Another idiosyncrasy of the brass band is that an Eb horn is called a "Tenor Horn" where the name "Alto"  would be more appropriate.

Having a mainly brass band background, I think in Bb (but making myself learn to read bass clef).  What would be quite useful would be a piano in Bb .

14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: What are this?!?!?! on: Feb 06, 2015, 01:27AM
They are way thinner than any standard o-ring cross section, so an instrument repairer /supplier is probably the best source. Old ones go brittle and the fit of the cap is less secure. Best to replace every 5 or so years, like a water key cork.
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: HELP! Nickel trombone cleaning issues on: Dec 24, 2014, 03:40PM
Who silver plated it? I could see a non-reputable player not cleaning the nickel underneath well enough and some oxidation bleeding through the silver plate. Other than that it must be your water...
I bought a silver plated Bach cornet new in 1989. Some of the tubing is nickel silver, and the plating loss from these bits is much worse than on the rest of the instrument which is brass. Maybe there is some inherent difficulty with silver plate on nickel silver ?

16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Holton bass trombone query on: Dec 13, 2014, 11:48PM

JohnL's website
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: What are the really nice Straight 525s? on: Nov 26, 2014, 03:28PM

Check out this thread about a chocolate 36.
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Where to rent a Contra? on: Nov 24, 2014, 07:30PM
Baltimore Brass have a used miraphone listed. They might be worth a try.
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: instruments as investments on: Nov 19, 2014, 10:14AM
Anyone know what the most expensive trombones are.

Thein stuff is up there. Here's their contra...
20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: instruments as investments on: Nov 16, 2014, 09:01AM
Quote from: SilverBone on Today at 04:39 AM

[I agree with the sentiment that trombones are terrible investments.  I buy bones that give me pleasure to own.

OTOH, trombones I bought 50 years ago are now worth more than I paid for them.  I don't know if the increase outpaced inflation.]

Back in 1964 I was pricing trombones and was interested in a King 4B or a Conn 88H (top of the line pro horns of the day).  List price was $495 and street price was just under $300.  Back then a car cost between $1600 and $2000.

An 88H bought for $495 in 1964 would need to be worth $3,800 now just to hold its value.
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