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1003409 Posts in 67728 Topics- by 16709 Members - Latest Member: CamRandall
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1  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: Frankenstein! on: Nov 20, 2015, 03:38PM
Sounds like a gas! You are going to have a great time, enjoy it.
2  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: cup mute large bore tenor on: Nov 19, 2015, 01:08PM
There's one other really good fiber cup similar to those mentioned above, the Trum-Cor Classical Cup.  It's amazing, perfect sound and no missing notes in the low register.  I haven't tried the above mutes, so can't compare them.

Out of the rest, I strongly prefer the H&B.  It's just got the right sound.  I have had no problem using the regular model in my large bore horns, I've been using the same one I bought in high school for decades now.  But in the orchestra the other players are likely to be using metal cups.  I use the Jo-Ral.  I don't care for the sound of the Wick, but I seem to be in a minority on that point.  It may just be that I don't like Wick mutes;  my first straight was a Wick (which I also still have) and I very rarely use it.

I was trying to be diplomatic, I don't really like the Wick mutes either. I use the cup in the orchestra sometimes because it's the only one the colleagues have.
I also use the H&B in the orchestra for jazzy pieces.
The Mic-a-Mute is great.
In Ensemble, I always use the Peter Gane or Rath. In my double bell I like an Ulvén cup (not available anymore) because it fits in the second 8 inch bell well and is very light weight.

3  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: cup mute large bore tenor on: Nov 19, 2015, 08:28AM
I second the Peter Gane recommendation. It sounds the most like the Stonelined but with a low register and a variable cup.
I didn't know about the Soulo cup until now. It looks very similar to the Peter Gane and looks very promising.
Another great cup is the Rath cup which has a bit different sound. It fits perfectly in a large bore tenor.
The Wick cup is probably the best mute in it's line and is also fine. I prefer the others.
4  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: Frankenstein! on: Oct 29, 2015, 12:35PM
Yes, I have played this piece. It was about 15 years ago so I don't remember it that well. I do remember it was really cool, though. We did it with H-K Gruber himself, he conducted and did the text, which is really zaney. I also remember hearing Frank Lloyd split a note in the horn solo, which made me really happy because I never heard him do it before that, or after either!

I played a version with one trombone and I'm pretty sure it wasn't bass trombone. I can't be certain, though because I play bass parts on tenor. I don't remember the part being extraordinarily difficult.
5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Mutes on: Oct 10, 2015, 05:36AM
I like different brands for different types.

Straight - Stonelined Aluminum
Bubble/wahwah/harmon - JoRal
Cup - Denis Wick
Cleartone/Solotone - H&B Stonelined
Plunger - hardware store
Practice - Yamaha Silent Brass
Bucket - Soulo

This isn't quite as easy to answer as that.

Sure, these are all fine mutes but...

Straight - I, personally, like the Tom Crown or JoRal straight mutes better, especially with copper bottoms. The Wick is also fine and probably the best one to start with, although I don't really care for it.

Wahwah - I prefer the Harmon brand wawa to the JoRal. The Wick is also fine.

Cup - I like the Peter Gane cup best and the new Rath cup is fantastic. You can't go wrong with the Wick though, and the H&M is cheap and sounds great, if you don't need the low register. Hole or card, you still won't get the low register response like the first 3.

Cleartone - H&M yes, not many alternatives to this. I have the corks thickened so it works well in a large bore tenor. Original corks make it too high. Same with Mello-Wah.

Plunger - hardware one works fine but the best sounding one is the H&M Tuxedo, in my opinion. It depends what you want it for.

Practice - my fav is the Wallace or Maslet (it's the same, I think) The Best Brass fits in the bell all the way so you can always have it with you, if that's what you want. The new Yamaha may also do this.

Bucket - Soulo is great but the Peter Gane is much easier to get in and out fast and sounds totally different.

So, I hope I have confused you enough so that you can make your own decisions and not depend solely on someone else's recommendation. Everyone has their favorites.
What do your colleagues play? Go to a shop and try them out yourself. Recommendations are a great place to start but it is always best to make the decision yourself.
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Does a shallower cup mean a brighter sound? on: Sep 28, 2015, 12:10PM
If you want to try a Greg Black, I would try a 4GS, the 4AL is too shallow, like a 6 1/2 AL.
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Greg Black equivalent of a Bach 4? on: Sep 06, 2015, 08:47AM
Thanks for all the replies.

I did have contact with Greg and we decided the 4GS was what I was looking for. I now have it and can say, it's perfect, just what I wanted. The depth is about the same as a Bach 4, maybe a tad deeper. The main problem with a Bach 4 is the standard throat size is very small. I've had the throat of one opened and I have another as a Bach special order with symphonic throat and back bore. The GB 4GS plays MUCH better in all respects for me.

Of course, a 4.5GS would be even more similar to a Bach 4 but I wanted the 4 rim because I play a 4G-5G and a 4AL. Te 4AL is a great mouthpiece but it is quite a bit shallower than a Bach 4. It is exactly what the name says, a 6 1/2 AL with a 4 rim.
8  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Cheap Hard Case on: Aug 27, 2015, 01:41PM
I have both of these cases, the SKB 360 and the Gator CG. (I just got the Gator from Thomann, who had it for 65€, couldn't pass that up)
They are very similar, the SKB is sleeker, meaning, the body is more slender. The bell diameter is the same, though, so you don't really gain anything in overall case width. Correction, the Gator's bell part is slightly wider, due to the reinforcing ridge around it.

The Gator has it's advantages; for instance it comes with a really good strap, the SKB doesn't. Don't buy the SKB strap, it sucks, cheap plastic latches.
I had some problems with SKB with the staples holding the slide cover, they were coming out and would scratch the slide. I pulled the ones out I couldn't hit back in with a hammer. The Gator doesn't have this problem.

Overall, I like the SKB a little better because I like the thinner look but I have to say that the Gator is really just as good and probably the better buy, especially for the price I paid.
9  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Greg Black equivalent of a Bach 4? on: Aug 12, 2015, 01:36PM
Hi Michael,

for some reason I've always thought you were Steve Ferguson!? SORRY!

I have 4 Bach 4s, 3 small shank and one large shank. All of mine are the same cup depth. One of the small shanks and the large shank are special orders from Bach with larger throats and back bores (the small one, too much and the large one, not enough. So much for special orders from Bach). One of the small shanks has had the throat opened and one is original.

I also studied with Swallow at NEC and he always played his 4 with his 36. He must have had the throat opened up but I can remember if he told me how much or what.

Anyways, it seems like the 4GS is probably deep enough. I want something different than my 4G-5G and not too similar otherwise, what's the point?

10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Greg Black equivalent of a Bach 4? on: Aug 12, 2015, 12:38PM
Hi Steve,

thanks for that info.

I have a Bach 4 and it is deeper than a Bach 5GS, so I was thinking probably a Greg Black 4GSD would be the one.
I play a 4G-5G and a just got a new 4G-5G with a #1 throat that I love (much easier high register). I also just got a 4AL which is great for the Conn 78H and Bach 16, but it's significantly shallower than the Bach 4.
I'm looking for something to play in my Rath R3 slide (tenor  receiver). I've been using a Bach 4 with a larger throat, it's OK but not really totally convincing. I really like the two new GB mpcs, so was thinking of getting one to replace the 4.
I was just chatting with Greg and we were deciding on the 4GSD, so thanks for saving me there.

BTW, Bach 4 large and small shank are the same depth.

11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bach "sound" vs. Conn "sound" vs. every other sound on: Aug 11, 2015, 02:58PM
OK. Here's my take. And this goes from small bores right on through basses, although it is based mostly on experience with pre-UMI horns.

Bachs-They have a very clearly defined overtone system above the notes. From ppp to fff and from the lowest tones to the highest. Same sound no matter what. A good sound, I suppose, but somewhat monochromatic.

Conns-They color more easily. Volume and range. Push a Conn in terms of volume and it starts to snarl. (Higher harmonics sounding.) Back off and it gets "darker." (Less harmonics/lower harmonics sounding.) More expressive than a Bach sonically, but not as reliable. Not as "civilzed."

That's my take, anyway.



I think Sam is right on the money here.

I used to play a Bach 42, in fact many players here in Germany used to play Bach. In the last 20 years or so many players have switched to German trombones (mainly Lätzsch but also Thein, Pfretschner, Kromat) The players who still play American horns now mainly play Conn, or Conn type horns (Rath/Shires) because they blend much better with the German horns. German horns are designed to change color with volume, soft - dark, loud - bright. German trumpets do this also. A Conn leans more in this direction, as Sam described. A Bach stays much more uniform, color wise, in the dynamics. This was the epitome of the American sound as I learned it, but I think things are changing and surely has in Europe.

Listen to recordings of the Philharmonia/Klemperer or Phliadelphia/Ormandy for a typical Conn sound.
Chicago/Reiner, Solti etc. for a Bach sound.

Nuf said.

12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Greg Black equivalent of a Bach 4? on: Aug 11, 2015, 02:21PM
I am wondering what the Greg Black equivalent of a Back 4 mouthpiece would be, I would imagine a 4GS or a 4GSD.
I know that both would have a much larger throat and but I mean cup depth. Does anyone know which would be closer?
13  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Case suggestions/BAM case problem on: Jul 18, 2015, 12:26PM
Is that bad for the horn? How so?

I'm not sure if it is bad, I just have a funny feeling about it. I have used the case with my Rath and nothing bad has ever happened. I just don't think it is optimal. Also, I have molded the slide padding so the trigger lever fits in it better.
I forgot, there is another problem, kind of. The bell section rests on Rath slide receiver turn key. Not really a problem unless the horn falls and gets a good bang. I can imagine the slide receiver may get damaged in this case (pun). I suppose one could put some extra padding between the case and goose neck.

Like I said, it does work. If you can live with the caveats, go for it.
14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Case suggestions/BAM case problem on: Jul 17, 2015, 02:48PM
I have a Rath R4F and an Eastman case. It does fit, kind of. The valve is half engaged when the case closes, probably not good for the valve. So, I don't like to do it.
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Bruno Tilz mouthpiece question on: Jul 17, 2015, 02:42PM
Tilz is probably the only mouthpiece maker that is even more confusing than Marcinkiewicz, you've gotten yourself into deep waters here. If you want to play a German mouthpiece, try a Josef Klier, much more understandable as far as rim diameter and depth. Otherwise, contact Tilz and tell us afterwards what everything means.
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Another fine alto mouthpiece on: Jul 15, 2015, 04:12PM
I also discovered a great alto mouthpiece recently, a Marcinkiewics 8H-S. The intonation of the partials in a Lätzsch is perfect, right up to high g and even b-flat (above high e-flat). Even the pedals are right in tune, the first mouthpiece I've found this to be the case. An Marc. 8H-AL is not in tune. It sounds really well but it is flat in the upper register and sharp in the pedals. The only difference between the two is the 8H-S has a larger back bore. Both of these mouthpieces have a 26 mm rim diameter, so they are good for players who like large rims.

As with your mouthpiece, Heinz, I honestly feel that altos need bigger throats and back bores to work well, nothing worse and more tiring than having to lip up in the upper register. The section blend in an orchestra also doesn't work for me with extremely shallow mouthpieces. A Lätzsch alto, for instance, is really nothing other than a German Weite 1, which is the same bore as the Weite 1 German tenor, it's just in Eb instead of B-flat. So an alto mouthpiece should correspond to the mouthpiece one would play in a Weite 1. That's my opinion. Of course the smaller altos like Bach or the Voigt may need something smaller.

17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: not happy with my Edwards bullet brace on: Jul 14, 2015, 03:26PM
Rath includes plastic shims with its hand rest to accommodate thinner bell braces. Wouldn't it be nice if Edwards should did this also.
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: How to get a rotor valve working again? on: Jul 05, 2015, 04:16PM
I bought the horn new and the valve was about 3-4 months old when it froze up because of the shards. Of course I explained the problem to Shires, the reply was that that was the first time they had heard of that happening.
I played the horn for a couple of years after that but, like I said, the valve never worked well enough for me. It was always slow (I tried about every oil) and the oil would always get in the slide and mess it up. I got tired of constantly cleaning the slide after oiling the valve, which was every two days or so. I'm talking about cleaning the slide every 20 minutes, 10 if I played anything fast like scales or etudes. The slide was perfectly aligned and worked fine when I could get it free of oil and play it with the straight gooseneck.
I have the feeling that the shards scratched up the valve core enough so that the oil would't stay in the valve and leaked more easily than normal into the slide. This may be baloney, though because I had problems with the slide before the shard attack. Shires even replaced the first slide I had because I complained about it.

Too bad, I fell in love with the Shires, especially with the Tru-bore, and waited a long time to get it. But like many love affairs it became a love-hate relationship and was better ended.

I now play Rath trombones and have none of these problems.

19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: How to get a rotor valve working again? on: Jul 04, 2015, 04:01AM
I had to take my try-bore apart after it had frozen up in a concert. There were metal shards, hiding in the cut-outs (the non-used holes in the core) of the valve and one had got itself lodged between the valve and casing. There must have been 12-15 shards in there. That's not what I would call precision engineering!

I've tried all of the oils and advice but have never been able to get mine working well enough to be happy. I don't play it anymore.
20  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: What does Amateur, Semi-professional, Professional mean to you? on: Jul 02, 2015, 04:12AM
You are right :-)

I get your point but please tell more about what you think is a good or better definition of each word.  I'm intersted in your thoughts of the complete picture Hi


This is kind of difficult to answer. How does one describe the relationship of player's musical quality to the money he makes?  I don't know.

All I know is, I just want to play with players who can do the job, as professionally as possible, be it amateur, semi-pro or pro.

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