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1097054 Posts in 72565 Topics- by 19541 Members - Latest Member: Zorgnot
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1  Practice Break / Religion / Re: Religion Matters: Take 3 on: Today at 11:11 AM
Where does it say in the Bible that torture is to be condemned or condoned? Answer; No where.
I would think that would be covered by Matthew 7:12 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Golden Rule
12 ôSo whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.   So I would think that unless unless you are a real masochist (I don't know too many who would want to be tortured), so torturing someone else would be against this the Golden Rule.  


Torture is also specifically mentioned in (Hebrews 11:35). In every case, we see that the godly are the victims of torture, never the perpetrators of torture. These are just two examples but I'm sure there are other verses that could be used to condemn the practice of torture,
2  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Valve bone? Why? on: Feb 12, 2018, 04:30AM
I had thought about getting one a few times, a could see playing one for bebop style jazz as being really helpful for me since valved instruments were my first instruments and I'm faster on them.  I've tried a couple models years ago and was under enthused with the ones I tried. I'm sure there are some good ones out there I just haven't found the right one.  I would say try to play them first before you buy one. 
3  Town Hall / Comments and Suggestions / Re: Politics and Religion sections on the TTF. Keep them or lose them? on: Feb 08, 2018, 01:35PM
Well I come here to check for trombone related talk, and will when I have some time read through the off topic sections and make a comment.  If the religion and politics sections weren't here I would still come for the Trombone and music related content.  If the religion and politics sections went away, I'm guessing I wouldn't miss them, but it doesn't bother me that they are there, and I do occasionally find the discussion interesting.  One of the advantages of a religious discussion on a site like this is you do get some diversity of opinion on those subjects that you wouldn't usually get on a religion only forum.    
4  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Opinions about King 3B valve trombones? on: Feb 07, 2018, 09:50AM
Since you have a 3B valve section already and it's in good working order, I would look for a used 3B bell (if you get one with a slide, then you'll have a horn that can go either way).  No reason to go out and get a whole new valve trombone, you might find something slightly better but would it be worth it?
5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Feel.... the real obsession on: Feb 07, 2018, 05:50AM
The sort of feel I am talking about people chasing..... you pick up an instrument and play a few notes ... you think OMG I've never felt anything that amazing...
Same with mouthpieces.... then, of course after a while you think there might be something more amazing out there and start the search again....
Not simple comfort.... a WOW factor.

Chris Stearn
Ah OK, Yea I've really never gotten into that myself, I'm pretty much an if it ain't broke why fix it kind of equipment user, but I do know musicians who are always chasing that next horn or mouthpiece that is going to be it!!
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Holton Superbone? on: Feb 07, 2018, 05:45AM
I played in a big band here in Rochester with a guy named Pete (can't remember his last name) retired military musician who I believe at the time was a student at Eastman.  He played a Holton superbone on lead with the big band, and it worked very well for him.  From what I observed of him playing it he used the valves when playing fast passages or solos, and used the slide when he wanted to gliss or play legato passages with the section where he wanted to sound more like a trombone player than a small bore baritone horn.  I don't recall him actually using the slide and valves together much. I do think it is an instrument that is more suited as a Jazz solo instrument, I'm sure this wasn't the horn he used at Eastman for legit work.  If you want to pick up a used Superbone with the idea of using it in a jazz combo, it could work very well for bebop playing or faster jazz pieces, but it does have some serious ergonomic issues to overcome, probably take it along with a regular small bore horn as a novelty for a few fast pieces and go back to your regular axe when needed.  Of course if you are only going to use it as a secondary horn a valve trombone would work just as well (maybe even better).  As being a Euph / Tuba player before being a trombone player, I've consider getting one of these myself, but the bore is just too small for me to play well on without putting a lot of time into it, so it would probably turn into another item to sit in my closet and seldom be used.   
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Feel.... the real obsession on: Feb 07, 2018, 05:24AM
I think feel is really too broad a term for this discussion, I think the term Comfort is more specific to the topic at hand.  I've made equipment decisions based on comfort, because if a horn or mouthpiece isn't comfortable you aren't going to be inspired to practice on it.  I stay with my old dependent Yamaha 612 Bass with the dual thumb levers, because of trigger finger in my left hand that makes playing the second valve with the paddle lever on the bottom very uncomfortable for me.  I have one vintage euphonium mouthpiece that I love the way I sound on it, but I can't play it for a long period of time because it has an unusually sharp inner rim.  So it's really a matter of your equipment has to provide a level of comfort that will allow you to play for long enough periods of time to meet your goals.  I don't think you'll ever find an instrument that is totally comfortable for you all of the time, but when something is noticeably uncomfortable it will detract from your ability to play and sound good for long periods of time.  There seems to always be some compromises between comfort and sound and playability, but the fewer the compromises the better the instrument will allow you to make great sounding music over the required time. 
8  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Euphoniums on: Feb 06, 2018, 07:09AM
Well prolevel horn can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people.  I assume there are some Chinese made instruments that fall into the category (I have no experience with them to comment, one way or the other), there are a couple of reasons that I would go used: 1)  Unfortunately as a pro perception is still an issue, you can hand select the finest playing and sounding Chinese made instrument and some people will still look down their noses at it.  Since I retired from the Army Band and I don't have their horn to play on I've actually been playing on a Yamaha 321 (modified with a Medium bore Shank from a b&H) and I get grief because it isn't compensating, even though by using alternate fingerings I have no problem playing any band literature I've been given in tune (including the Holst Sweets for Military Band, which someone tried to tell me couldn't be played on a non-compensating horn. 2) If you ever get in a bind and have to sell your horn or you decide Euphonium just isn't for you you can usually get what you paid back for a used Besson, Boosey and Hawkes, Sovereign, Yamaha, etc.  With a new Chinese horn resale is going to be much lower than you paid for it.  I've bought all of my horns used, and when I decide to upgrade I have no problem recouping my investment on a well maintained well playing name brand horn. If you can afford it and can find one you like I would go the used route, which is why I asked about price range the OP was looking in.  If you can find one in your price range used in my mind is a better investment.  I'm not dissing the Chinese brands like Wessex, and Mack Brass, and the more expensive John Packer line that are starting to get a very good reputation, I just have a preference for a good used instrument myself.   
9  Creation and Performance / The Business of Music / Re: Going to be a high school band director, is it worth it financially? on: Feb 06, 2018, 06:31AM
I'm not a music educator, but I play and I am good friends with many of them.  From what I've seen they seem to be making a pretty decent living, and they supplement what they get from the school districts with paid playing opportunities, and giving private lessons.  I agree with those who have stated there are better paying careers for people with a degree (here in NY it requires a masters), so if you're in it for the money pick a more lucrative career field.  If you want the reward of teaching young people the love of music, and working with young people while making a living wage Music education can be a rewarding field, you will get good government benefits like a state pension, and paid medical in most districts.  I would check into how competitive it is to get teaching jobs in the state you want to eventually live in.  If you feel called to be a Music educator and you want to work with children/teens then it's worth exploring.  Good LUck!!  
 
10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Euphoniums on: Feb 05, 2018, 06:29PM
What is your budget?  I've heard good things about the Wessex horns, but don't have any personal experience.  There are quite a few used prolevel horns on the Market, I personally would look for a used Yamaha 641, or 642, or a Besson, or Sterling, etc.
11  Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy / Re: Learning as B-flat on G clef, C on F clef on: Feb 04, 2018, 04:42AM
I don't understand. For CC tuba, my transposition trick is to read it as if it were alto clef. 
When I play CC Tuba I'm not transposing, I just know the fingerings, because they are the same as Trumpet/Treble clef Euphonium:  C on trumpet/treble clef Euph. is an open note, just like it is on CC Tuba, B Natural is Second Valve, etc.  So the fingerings and note names for Trumpet and Treble clef Euphonium are the same as the note names and fingerings on CC Tuba.  The difference is Trumpet and Treble Clef Euphonium are written in Treble Clef, and CC tuba is in Bass Clef but the note names and fingerings are the same.
12  Teaching & Learning / Pedagogy / Re: Learning as B-flat on G clef, C on F clef on: Feb 03, 2018, 11:57AM
After I learned Bass Clef euphonium in school, I went into a junior drum and bugle corp and their music was all written as if you were playing Bb trumpet fingerings in Treble clef (all the horns were actually in G at the time).  So yes I can read both now, and it has helped me easily pick up CC tuba since the fingerings are the same as Treble clef Euphonium (but in Bass clef).
13  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Advice on looking for and financing a new horn. on: Feb 01, 2018, 01:55PM
I'm not very familiar with the Shires or Edwards horns, but does it really play that much better?  I'm not saying that getting a new upgraded trombone isn't a nice goal to shoot for, but how immediate is your need?  The Bach 42 is a horn that is used by a lot of professionals, so if yours is in good condition and plays well I would advise taking your time and working summer jobs, etc. to earn the money.  If there isn't an immediate need I would avoid financing, and paying interest on a purchase of this size. The more you can earn and save before the purchase the less you will pay in interest. 
14  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Using GoFund me to finance a new horn on: Feb 01, 2018, 01:17PM
I'm curious about how many of the musicians here who are upset about this GoFundMe also vote as liberals who support social programs, not just in the States, but worldwide. That would be pretty interesting to know. Most musicians I know lean pretty liberal, so I really don't get what the upset here is.

I lean right, and I'm glad that people can freely ask for money, not necessarily by approaching people in person but in a written forum, using their right to free speech, and that others are free to give or not give. I vote in a way that I think is against forced giving. For a demographic  (musicians) that in my experience leans left and often votes for what I see as forced giving, it's surprising that this thread is such a big deal.

I realize that this is a super simplified comparison, and it only represents my personal viewpoint, but I am trying to use it to ask again, "what is the big deal?"
As a Liberal myself I understand his right to ask for whatever he wants, if someone wants to donate to him I have no problem with them doing so.  Myself as a retiree I have limited funds to give to charity, so I'm particular about what causes I give to.  For myself I choose not to give to someone who is asking for what I consider a Luxury item.  There are many very good used professional level horns that he could be looking at, or he could ask for the funds to have his current horn over-hauled, and those options would serve him just as well.  If he were trying to come up with say a used 88H, 42B, Holton etc. I would be more inclined to donate a small amount.  How many of us are gigging or have gigged on horns that are considered inferior to what he is trying to raise funds for?  If you were doing a go fund me page because you needed a reliable car to get you back and forth to work would you post your need on social media stating that you wanted to raise funds for a new BMW or Maserati, or would you ask for funds to buy a reliable used vehicle? 

As a Liberal I give as much as I can to help others, but I try to put my limited funds where they will do the most good.  I don't have a problem with him asking for funds, I just have a problem with him thinking that he needs to have a high end Shires Horn to reach his highest potential as a player.  Many professionals have done phenomenally well with instruments that weren't new or that high end.  Save the expensive boutique horns for when you can afford it and get something more affordable but workable.  Just my opinion, but he is asking for my money so in that regard my opinion counts. 
15  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Using GoFund me to finance a new horn on: Jan 30, 2018, 08:26PM
I guess it just goes to show there really is a sucker born every minute!! 
16  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Using GoFund me to finance a new horn on: Jan 30, 2018, 09:50AM
If he wants to beg for money for a new horn on the internet it's his prerogative, as it's my prerogative not to give him any money.  He already has a good horn (that may be in need or repair), but I am very particular these days about who I decide to give my money too, and a kid who wants to upgrade to a fancy expensive horn isn't high on my priority list.  I've been playing used horns I've saved and shopped for bargains on, why would I want to finance someone else.  Unless the person asking had demonstrated a real need and extenuating circumstances as to why they couldn't earn and save for the horn they wanted I wouldn't be inclined to donate to his cause. It isn't particularly rude of him to ask, nor is it rude of me to decide his cause isn't worthy of my dollars.  I do think that it is a little naive of him to think that people will be inclined to give him money for a horn when there are plenty of kids out there that would love to have the horn he is playing now. I would be more inclined to give to him if he were asking for help raising a few hundred dollars to repair his current horn.   
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Trombone step/up on: Jan 27, 2018, 10:18AM
That 88H doesn't have to be a "back up horn", it can be the main axe for a college student or any professional player. I don't have anything against boutique horns, and I've tried some that were stellar, and yes they have been the trend for a while (and for good reasons). If you can afford them and the best (for your needs) horn you try happens to be a custom or boutique horn, by all means get that. But they're not inherently superior or better. Many, many professionals, some among the best in the world, play 42s, 88Hs or clones of these. The very best modern trombones (for my taste and my playing) I've ever tried were Bachs and Conns (including Greenhoe optimized) and the Courtois 88H clone.

Students getting told that they NEED a Shires or Edwards or whatnot and that a 88H or 42B is not good enough or serious enough anymore for a college student or for professional life is frankly one of the many things that are very wrong in the current trombone culture (particularly in the US/North America). First the horn doesn't have to cost 4-6K$ to be a good horn, second it's not about the horn, it's about how you play it.

Plus there are potential big downsides in getting a custom boutique horn as a student : when you're in high school you most often don't know quite exactly what you want, or know how to get it; and what you think you need at 19 vs you actually need once you're further in your studies or done with them are often very different. The nice expensive Shires with a very specific combination of parts you get at 19 might not be easy to sell when you want to switch. Many people are looking for a 42 or 88H, and so they are easy to sell, with a more or less predictable resell price if it's good and in good shape. People who buy custom instruments usually have a more specific combination they're looking for, and the chances of your horn fitting what the buyer wants are often slim. I see a lot of custom horns either taking months or years to sell, or selling for much less compared to the original price than stock horns do. I have also had many friends who bought nice Shires with weird specs in college, then switched to conventional stock horns by the end of grad school.
I agree with everything you said:  I didn't mean to imply that the 88H was an inferior instrument, I own and play an older Elkhart 88H myself as my primary tenor, and have no desire to change that now.  My point was it doesn't fit in with the current fad / trend of pushing designer instruments with high price tags. The majority of my post was to convince the OP to repair his 88H and play it until at College where he may find that they want or encourage him to play something different. He may actually be steered toward bass when he gets there, so why spend a lot of money now when he has a good prolevel horn (as long as it can be economically repaired). 
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Loosening a thight screw on: Jan 26, 2018, 06:16AM
I would try penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench or WD-40, I would avoid pliers I've twisted the head right off screws that way and had to drill them out an tap the hole, not something you want to do on a musical instrument.  Use the grippy rubber pad thing to get a better grip on it but avoid pliers. 
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Trombone step/up on: Jan 25, 2018, 04:37PM
I would echo what a lot of others have said here, get the 88H fixed (you'll need to do that if you want to sell it to help pay for the new one), and wait until you're in college or at least have some input from the Trombone department at the school you'll be attending.  An 88H is a good pro horn, but there are more modern choices that seem to be preferred these days in the boutique and custom lines.  There are a few good reasons for getting the 88H fixed, one is you can sell it with a clear conscience and you'll get more for it if it's in good working condition.  If you decide not to sell it having a good backup horn is never a bad idea for a student or pro who depends on their instrument.   
20  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Taking Trombone up later in life on: Jan 25, 2018, 07:09AM
I really recommend finding a teacher, and contacting the music teacher at the local high school would be my first step.  Local colleges with a Music Education degree program or similar might also be a good choice to try to find a teacher.  Good luck with you playing endeavor!!
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