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1088979 Posts in 71983 Topics- by 19325 Members - Latest Member: StanKenton69
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61  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: List your Shires Bass setup on: Jun 08, 2016, 02:09PM
BII 7GLW bell
B62 NLW slide
BYB tuning slide
Dependent axials
B1 Leadpipe
Greg Black 1 3/8G

I got this used as a set a few months back, and I'm still trying out all three leadpipes to see which one is best. Probably going to be looking at nabbing a B1.5 or a B2L leadpipe at some point if I find one for the right price, but it works well for me, despite being a bit unconventional.

For what it's worth, the thing that was the biggest boon to my bass playing since getting this horn was getting a Doug Elliott mouthpiece to use on my TENOR that doesn't confuse my chops as much, since I have to switch horns daily (Tenor Monday, Bass Tuesday, Tenor Wednesday, Bass Thursday).

I really think that the B62NLW slide *makes* the setup, though. Having the immediate response from the nickel pieces in the lower register is wonderful, while the BII taper on a 7-construction bell gives me the breadth of sound that I need while not sacrificing responsiveness.
62  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Bass Trombone Syndrome on: May 20, 2016, 01:32PM
The problem is partially the way a lot of bass trombone parts are written in band/orchestra,  and partially a matter of maturity as a human and a musician.

In the one hand,  it's easy to want to "dig in"  when given a chance,  since many of the parts that high school bass trombonists run across are nothing more than simplified trombone 2 parts with whole notes rather than quarters/eighths but in the same general register. On the other hand,  you see parts that are largely between D below the staff and pedal F and since those are what you find fun as a high school level player,  you feel an urge to optimize for those parts.

That's where the maturity angle comes in.  It is entirely too easy to look down on "high school trombonists" when you move past that phase,  but those players will mature and eventually choose equipment and playing styles that make ALL of their playing needs easier (or quit playing), and then the next generation will be making the same stupid mistakes and maturing for themselves.

I don't see the catastrophe.
63  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: untuned band in the wild on: May 14, 2016, 06:48AM
My guess is that they swapped instruments for this thing. That would explain how special the harder to play instruments are, like the Oboe.

Honestly, I'd still rather watch this than watch a band director hold up a CA-30 and have everyone in the band blow a concert Bb.
64  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: My New Bach 50 AF3 on: May 11, 2016, 08:07AM
Lol. It is not comfortable for most people. Have you tried it?

That was what struck me on looking at the pictures. There's a certain amount of clearance needed between the left hand slide brace and the Gb lever to allow the valve to actuate. That includes the non-valve fingers of the left hand. Simultaneously, there's a certain distance from the brace that most comfortably allows someone to reach the valve without having to stretch too far.

Having a solid inch worth of metal and wood as the finger surface for the lever greatly complicates finding a position that is comfortable for both purposes.

Of course, if the initial setup is right for the individual player who owns the horn, this is concern is moot.
65  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: E trigger on tenor trombone? on: Apr 21, 2016, 04:14PM
In case anyone's curious, a Shires trubore single valve setup (at least on tenor) nearly reaches Eb when pulled out to its limits.

Confused the hell out of me when I suddenly needed B-naturals in some piece or another, and wound up almost getting B-flats at the end of the slide.
66  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Success removing 4047DS/4147IB leadpipes? on: Apr 20, 2016, 07:24PM
A lip? Don't know  Never seen that.  Does that mean you couldn't slide the inner tube up through the top of the cork barrel?  It can only slide down? 

The Olds Studio does the same thing. Leadpipe is mounted in the inner tube before the inner tube is mounted. At least in the Studio, the mouthpiece receiver is part of the cork barrel proper.

Not sure if that's the case for the 4047 models as well.

I agree that it's silly, though. Try a bunch of similar leadpipes (say Kanstul OL leadpipes) and no two will play exactly alike.

Then again, I've never met someone with a 396A who has so much as touched the harmonic pillars, because "Joe Alessi doesn't use them, and he sounds great". Perhaps it works the same way for 4047IB buyers and Bousfield.
67  Teaching & Learning / History of the Trombone / Re: Use of Trombones in Orchestra on: Apr 20, 2016, 12:55PM
I've only done Beethoven's Fifth once.  I enjoyed the rehearsals very much, even my tacet movements. I enjoyed being able to sit and observe the other musicians put their part of the show together without having to be on the edge of my seat ready for my next entrance.

I agree with this. I've "done" Beethoven 5 twice, and the second time we only played the last movement. I enjoyed it much more when I had three movements of waiting before I got the chance to play, it means so much more in the context of the entire piece.
68  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: stock Holton TR 180 on: Apr 18, 2016, 10:36AM
Which begs the question as to why a supposed expert on brass instruments would accuse my son of having the school's TR180.

I have no doubt that your son bought the horn in good faith, but based on the pictures of TR 180 knuckle joints we've seen on here, there's a great deal of variation in the spacing of "TR     180" etc, there's no way to prove that it is or is not the school's trombone. That doesn't justify their having confiscated it, but, well, presumption of innocence and individual rights on college campuses are the targets of the current wave of national conversation.

And it is a bit suspicious that it happened to pop up in a pawnshop at the same time that the brass tech noticed the other one missing.

If it were proven to be the school's horn, and proven that your son purchased it in completely good faith, what would your preferred outcome be?

Have you tried sending the details of this case to FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, http://www.thefire.org )? A lot of their work is on first amendment stuff, but I imagine that they'd at least be interested in hearing the details of a fourth amendment case, and might have some suggestions about where to proceed from here.
69  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Trigger register means above high Bb, right? on: Apr 16, 2016, 10:22AM
Has anyone else experimented with playing notes above high Bb with the f-attachment (or F and D) attachments engaged, but such that the note is in the position such that the horn is at its natural length for the harmonic series in which that note is tonic?

ie.
1   - Bb
2   - A
3   - Ab
4   - G
5   - Gb
6   - F
7   - E
T1  - F
T2  - E
T3  - Eb
...
TT1 - D
TT2 - Db

For example, you might try playing  (15va) in T1, rather than open 1, for more security and improved resonance? Or even  (8va) in TT3/T6?

I've found the notes to speak easily and clearly while doing this, and while it makes sense without thinking about it too hard, I'm curious if I'm noticing a real phenomenon or if it's entirely in my head.
70  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Damage that Hurts on: Apr 15, 2016, 06:36PM
Story from high school: A friend of mine was borrowing our mutual trombone teacher's Mt Vernon 42, for a period of a couple months, while his horn wasn't around for some reason or another (backorder, or warranty work, or something, I don't remember the exact specifics).

No problem there.

But... as soon as he got his own horn back, he took it to a football game, put it down, and forgot to engage the slide lock, leading to the outer slide being launched between the bleachers, and managing to destroy the slide in one fell swoop.

Since he had the lesson before me, I got to hear the tail-end of that discussion (probably could have heard it from halfway across town), since it was obvious that my friend hadn't been exercising best practices while borrowing the teacher's rare and precious horn, either.
71  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: What mouthpiece would you recommend to get a orchestral sound on med. bore on: Apr 13, 2016, 04:37AM
You might be surprised if you asked your sectionmates what they think of your sound for blending purposes. At least on the principal book (in a lot of repertoire), a more-brilliant sound isn't necessarily a bad thing.

For what it's worth, though, in one of the orchestras in which I play, the principal is using a Stork T1 on a 3BSS, of all things, and he manages to make an entirely pleasing orchestral trombone noise with it. Storks are also reasonably economic, so could be a good way to try out a different mouthpiece if you want to try something different, but are happy with the rim size on your 6.5Al.

Choose the mouthpiece that gives you the best flexibility and response, make the "tone quality" with your lips and air.
72  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: How to sell a frankenbone on: Apr 12, 2016, 03:41PM
If you part it out,  you're probably going to take a bath on the tuning slide,  but the rest of the parts may sell better.

There's a hard floor to the price of a valve section, but dependent axials are not the most popular configuration (despite playing them myself).

Bell is listed on Edwards website as a popular option,  so you have that in your favor but the fact that it has been cut is less-so. Same with the modified tuning slide hardware on the Shires valves (do you have the original hardware?)

I might try to sell whole,  first.  Contact high schools and music colleges within 75 miles or so,  and see if anyone is interested in coming to give it a blow. If that doesn't pan out,  contact someone with market presence,  like Noah at Brassark to sell on consignment.

I don't know what your number is,  but it sounds like it would make someone a wonderful horn at 3500-3750 or so,  considering that the most recent dependent-axial Shires,  nearly mint and all parts Shires and interchangeable with any other Shires bass parts,  sold at "4500 obo" and took a good while to sell,  at that.
73  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: I know what I like - buying sight unseen... (T-350 compared to T-396A) on: Apr 12, 2016, 02:20PM
Only side-by-side experience I've had with Edwards is playing next to someone who owned both a T-396A and an Edwards Custom with a Greenhoe valve. He sounded noticeably better on the Edwards Custom.

There's an idea for you, though- Order the bell, slide, and tuning slide that you want, and have them shipped to M&W to have them build a rotor section to match your horn. That might be the best of both worlds, since you know that you like the parts that are attached to the Edwards you're borrowing.
74  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Lightweight Conn 88H slide? on: Apr 11, 2016, 05:52AM


Embedding your picture into the post to make it easier for mobile viewers, etc.

This SL4762 at Dillon Music also appears to have short oversleeves:
75  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Slide repair recommendations please! on: Apr 09, 2016, 08:10AM
A Yamaha 354 slide is in need of repair. There is a visible indentation on the inner slide stocking and the slide probably needs an alignment. There is no visible wear on the inner stockings and there are no visible dents on the outer slide. I live in the Boston area.

Any recommendations?

Three Recommendations (in order of proximity to Boston proper):
1. Osmun Music in Boston.
2. Dave Zoni in Newington, CT http://brassinstrumentservices.com/wordpress/ (he has his own machine shop, and previously worked building slides for Shires. Does really good work)
3. Bill Korzick in New Haven, CT https://www.facebook.com/groups/bkorzick/ Miracle-worker.

I have had my horns worked on personally by the latter two, and Osmun is well-known for having talented repair staff.
76  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Less is more? on: Apr 09, 2016, 06:47AM
Hi, I have a question that cross my mind many times.

The musicians from the past that musicians of today try to emulate or being inspired by played on instruments that they can find and practice on it, so why today many musicians play on custom horns, mouthpieces, etc?

I am an awful hacker of a weekend warrior. I own two custom trombones.

The reasons why:
1. I try to find things that get me closer to the sound I have in my head, which may or may not be the sound of someone I'm trying to emulate, or something new, or an amalgamation of a bunch of people, pro and amateur, modern and historical to whom I've listened. I'm not sure. I just know the sound that I'm going for.
2. Build quality: Shires, Edwards and Rath make some of the best horns on the planet. True, Thein and Courtois make equal horns in non-modular configurations, but in each case, it's more expensive than the non-modular alternative. Yamaha also makes fantastic horns at a phenomenal price with great build quality and some real quality of life improvements (the spit slide on the 822g), but they may or may not be precisely what I'm looking for out of the horn.
3. Leadpipes, in particular, are an intensely personal choice (the closer to the face you get, the more personal it is, I find at least). Having the ability to swap out leadpipes to get that last bit of the horn working to my satisfaction is extremely... satisfying.
4. Valve configurations: I knew I wanted modern valves (thayer, hagmann, trubore) and I wanted them in a dependent configuration. The only ways to get these were from Shires, Edwards or Rath. Nobody else even tries (with an honorable mention for Kanstul putting their Controlled Resistance valve on their 1662 in dependent configuration). On my tenor, the choices valve-wise were Shires Trubore, Rath Hagmann and Bach Hagmann, and Bach had been having some issues with their Hagmann valve 42's.
5. Modern intonation: One thing that you'll notice about an Edwards, Shires or Rath horn is that the D and F above the staff in first position are closer together than they are on a Bach/Conn. That's the sort of thing to which you can adjust pretty quickly... but why?
6. Shires 7*LW bells: They're a miracle of modern art and science, aiding timely and precise articulations while still supporting a full and clear sound. Magical.

You can also make arguments about ease of repair by being able to quickly remove various parts without unsoldering anything, but that's starting to push it a bit, since it wasn't a consideration in either of my decisions.
77  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Different bell on Rath horn on: Apr 04, 2016, 09:55AM

As for horns flying apart in your hands, John Beers, Jr.? With enough solder, or duct tape, or C-clamps from the hardware store, anything will stick together. Epoxy will work. JB Weld epoxy is great on crappy horn repairs.

And yes, John Beers Jr., I myself, while still a professional bass trombonist did also own my own propane torch and solder to remove things from my Bach bass. And along the way saw a lot of Frankenhorns made with Holton parts.

Clearly you have a mechanism in mind by which attaching the wrong bell to the horn for any length of time destroys the value of the instrument for eternity thereafter.

I was just hoping that you might expand upon the mechanism by which the rest of the horn is tainted.
78  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Different bell on Rath horn on: Apr 03, 2016, 05:37PM
And yet we have a working pro in this very thread who did the same mod to his Rath bass, and it somehow didn't start vibrating wildly and shatter into a million pieces. Go figure.
79  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Looking for large bore-suggestions?? on: Apr 03, 2016, 05:32AM
There's also an Edwards here: http://trombone.org/classifieds/instruments.asp

$2200 with a nice gig bag and a very good mouthpiece.

Unfortunately, the guy doesn't give any information about configuration of the horn, and it could be something peculiar. But at that pricepoint (JUDGING SOLELY BY THE PRICES EDWARDS GIVES FOR VALVE REPAIR: http://www.edwards-instruments.com/edwards/faq.php ) it could be worth consideration, even if it needs valve work. Especially since it's relatively recent (When I spoke earlier, I was mostly concerned about, like, a 1993 horn).

Find out what the parts are, and PM someone here who knows what s/he is talking about with Edwards bell numbering(read: Not me), and see what the story is.

As for the slide, I'd be careful about getting anything that was T-DBN or -AN. Nickel slides and dual-bore slides can work, as can slides that are both, but that's starting to get into the specific-use side of the spectrum.
80  Creation and Performance / Trombonists / Re: More YouTube Trombonists on: Apr 01, 2016, 03:35AM
Eastman Trombone Studio group recital:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khboEy1D7Tc&t=17m15s

Timestamp is for the Creston Fantasy, which seems to have become a rarity in recitals recently. The Creston is preceded by a student playing a very nice, vocal sound with which I'm not familiar. Afterwards, another student plays the Bourgeois Concerto, followed by a trombone quartet with which I'm also not familiar.
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