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1072642 Posts in 71139 Topics- by 18853 Members - Latest Member: UtahTrombone
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1  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bach 30 on: Jul 06, 2017, 03:03PM
For anyone still curious, I finally brought the horn to Josh Landress in NYC for inspection and measurements. I used the horn on a recording session and it sounded amazing. Round, resonant, and could get quite loud.

The slide is gold brass tubes .512/.522 dual Bore, so weirder than I thought.

The bell is gold brass, 8 inches, but the bell throat is quite big--it must have been an 8 inch bell spun on a Bach 45 or 50 bell mandrel, its bigger than a 42.

The slide is the same width as an elkhart 36. It's surprisingly light--maybe lightweight gold brass tubes.

I play tested it against a Mt Vernon 34 and a MtV 36B and while all different, it outplayed both in my opinion...

I've reached out for the shop card but the guy in charge is on vacation until July 10th. Keep you posted.

This is truly a special horn and looking forward to using it quite a bit in the future.

2  Creation and Performance / The Business of Music / Re: What is a realistic salary for a professional trombonist? on: Jul 02, 2017, 06:36PM
I'm 27 and a professional trombonist.  I haven't had a day job for almost five years and I live in NYC. I'd say most guys in the low end without a day job in NYC make 30-35K hustling really hard...more experienced guys can play in wedding bands corporate things, gets to about $45-50K. At that point if you win an orchestral gig you'll start out between 50-60K trial year then it goes up. In NYC, that is much higher and if you get a Broadway show and Don't often sub out can make upwards of $150K. These numbers would probably be similar or lower depending on which city or state...maybe where your cost of living is also lower. Otherwise freelance touring with cool bands can get your money way higher. Don't expect to play any music you were taught in college to make a living. I also advise getting into electronic music-- I get flown out to play Coachella with a DJ and make more than tens times the Mingus band gig pay.
3  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Arturo Velasco's equipment on: Jun 20, 2017, 06:23PM
I thought he plays a Yamaha of some sort not sure mouthpiece...think he also played Bach for a time.
4  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bach 30 on: Jun 19, 2017, 11:22AM
Well I put in an offer of $2000 for the horn and he accepted so I will let you all know how it plays. I hope the bell tenon works for a 36 so I can use my nickel slide as well...I've been dying for a New York Bach horn and a straight bell section at that...I have an addiction!

5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Flugabone help on: Jun 19, 2017, 09:07AM
The Olds horn, a compact marching valve trombone, was the first design produced...everything stated previously is correct. I believe the Blessing factory made the Bach mercedes and Blessing horns they are the same design as the olds and often just as good. The King horns were the first Labeled Flugabone, and despite the claims that it was an "improved design" I feel that the King horns just don't sound nearly as rich in time as the Olds...too blatty and built for only projection in marching band.

I've used the Olds Flugabone since 2013 as a travel horn and an easy horn to carry. With the right mouthpiece I've also used it in Recording sessions to get a mellow French Horn like sound. Look up Beck's cover of "I Only Have Eyes For you"...you can hear me playing it on that track I did the horn arrangements for.  I also used it on TV mimicking French horn parts and melodies, see "Maya &a Marty- Broadway for Orlando What the world Needs Now".

It's one of my favorite horns...I brought it to a Bonnaroo this year and played with a DJ--the tone isn't so in your face but when I play loud everyone can hear and enjoy it--I also call it The Party Horn because I'll get in a crowd and rock out with people without worry that my slide is going to get banged up--this horn has taken a beating being carried in a backpack everywhere from  New York to Bangkok and it still holds up!

My friend Jon Natchez also plays an olds Flugabone with Father John Misty and a band called The War On Drugs--and we've both also used the horn playing with David Byrne.

More than just a utility horn!!!
6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: My visit with Roy Lawler on: Jun 10, 2017, 11:27AM
My Butler Slide made for my Conn set up fits on the lawler .500 perfectly but is a few inches longer...so even with the tuning slide in all the way it still plays a bit under pitch...I used it on a gig last night and it was great but some pitch issues.

Our friend Alex had a Butler outer slide made for his Lawler and he is enjoying it apparently.

Roy liked the idea of it and didn't notice much of a difference in the sound of his horn. Roy has lightened the design of his slides a bit, and compared to normal slides they are fast and light, brass one is comparative to a nickel Bach slide, but they are still heavy compared to Butler's slides.

I will be ordering an outer slide for my Lawler which will be especially helpful given its durability while traveling.

I doubt a collaboration between the two is possible but both Roy and David are making superior products.

I must say my horn looks like a science project...carbon fiber slide nickel neck pipe yellow brass stem and red brass flare...hahabut it's amazing!!!
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Elkhart Conn's Bell Characteristics on: Jun 09, 2017, 08:24PM
I believe the old conn bells have unsoldered steel rims...put a magnet to the rim if it sticks then you'll have your answer.
8  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: My visit with Roy Lawler on: Jun 09, 2017, 06:07PM
I've been in Nashville a lot working lately, so yesterday with a day off I finally made it to Roy's shop and met the man in person! Wow. He is truly a humble, kind, thoughtful person and his wife Tysh is so great.  I had a great couple of hours with them!

First of all it's clear that he is truly a master craftman! His shop is beautiful and unpretentious. It is about hand made quality over quantity or marketing scheme. He really is doing something else...he repaired my yellow brass flare for me which came out of alignment. He didn't have that many demos to try as everything he made is shipping out this week and he's going on vacation...but I was able to try a few variations.

I've been playing on 8 inch bells exclusively the last four years and had asked Roy to make me an 8 inch red brass with a standard beaded rim like a Bach would have. He made that for me and I loved it...but he also suggested I try a 7.5 inch Red Brass with the Bach rim he also made that week...I was skeptical but...

Just like Sheriff's flare, I was blown away. It works so well with my stem...it's become my main bell...almost like a Mt Vernon gold brass bell with a lot more projection and some bite...I'm super happy.

F Attachment horns are in development!

I'll be working with him on a small bore horn with F Attachment. I think with the right flare choice we can get something that far surpasses the mythical Williams Model 7s and 9s...definitely leagues ahead and a versatile commercial horn!!!

Keep y'all posted!


9  Practice Break / Found on the 'Net / Re: I'm not sure I would call that a restoration... on: Jun 04, 2017, 01:59PM
Their horns looks dope...they make art!! But hard to see the practicality...Mike modified my King 3B in an amazing way...he did the same exact thing to my Slide as he did the superbone--added the copper slide crook and did the scratched dark lacquer vibe...I guess my completely original horn isn't original anymore...

Also my horn is heavier than a bass trombone now and I can't hold it for more than 30 mins without feeling fatigue...

Fun to look at, hard to play...
10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Carbon Fiber lube questions on: May 28, 2017, 12:59AM
Carbon fiber outers-normal plated inners.

I don't think any company does truly carbon fiber inners--even daCarbo.
11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Carbon Fiber lube questions on: May 27, 2017, 04:58PM
Just use normal slide lube it's the same and won't mess with carbon fiber.
12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Adams trumpets on: May 20, 2017, 07:08PM
They're designing a trombone too...just finished it, classical style w f Attachment. Cool wrap...have yet to try one yet though.
13  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Small Bore Mouthpiece Recommendations? on: May 19, 2017, 08:41PM
Hey all,

I've been playing a Hammond 13M for almost seven years. I love this mouthpiece but it's starting to wear down after years of constant playing.

I could just order a fresh one again, but was wondering if there were any other options people enjoy playing? Any new companies doing a great job?

Greg Black pieces seem cool, but I only have seen large Bore 5G-4G pieces...any recommendations would be appreciated.

I've tried Denis Wick and warburton pieces and don't like them...Monette sounds good on small jazz stuff but that's it for me.

Also think I want something with more mass than the Hammond, but not into the Bach Megatones.

Thanks for your help!!


14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Butler Carbon Fiber Slide on: May 19, 2017, 08:34PM
This brace isn't just glued on...the fibers are woven in...it's secure.
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Butler Carbon Fiber Slide on: May 18, 2017, 10:01PM
1.) You don't have to send him measurements for the 6H Slide. The parts all fit interchangeably for me except the slide lock is a little bit off on the carbon fiber outer with the original conn inner...but that's because he made the slide to his different curved innerslide grip and different slide lock...if you just buy an outer for the original 6H it should fit well.

2.) the horn doesn't feel unbalanced at all...weight is in the handslide grip and it feels amazing with my old school ugly 60s conn counterweight...I took it off and the horn feels nose heavy a bit but I adjusted pretty quickly!

3.) these slides don't bend...at all. I played it at Carnegie Hall and smacked the outer slide on a table (I'm crazy) to prove how durable it was. Nothing happened. Doubt it will crack any time soon.

4.) if you send measurements and model of your slide David will make bigger bore outer slides for you.

It's a complete game changer for me. I'm not into the bell...I love the response of a brass bell from a great vintage...but the slide? It feels so good!
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Butler Carbon Fiber Slide on: May 15, 2017, 05:31PM
Hey All,

I just wanted to say some words about this new slide I got from David Butler, a trombonist in Dallas who owns Butler Trombones.  He is making complete Carbon Fiber horns, but I recently purchased a slide from him.

The slide is for my Conn 6H--the horn was originally owned by Wayne Andre and I bought it from Josh Landress' shop in NYC last summer.

I love the bell, its my favorite bell ever, but regular weight 6H slides are pretty heavy for my taste...since David designed his Carbon Fiber horn around a vintage 6H I figured I'd give his slide a try.  It's $800 for just the carbon fiber slide and $1500 for the complete slide made with all 6H inner slide parts with a Williams Style curved brace and removable lead pipe.  If you send him measurements and trombone model he can make a carbon outer slide for most any other model...Bach 16, King 3B, 36, 50, you name it.

The slide is so light its amazing...so easy to play fast--it's mind blowing.  It's 1/8th the weight of the original slide.  It doesn't feel fragile like some other light weight slides I've had made for me by other makers.

There is an adjustment period...the first few days I loved the slide...then kind of felt like I was playing into a toy (the response is different), then after a few weeks I noticed how well it sounded on Pro Recordings, TV stuff, and Rehearsal tapes and was so impressed.  I messed with some lead pipes (playing my Roy Lawler "15" pipe in it instead of the 6H pipe) and now I'm hooked.

It definitely tightens up some articulations for me...feels more like a nickel silver slide in that regard, but way lighter.  Playing my Bach 36 w nickel slide on a session last week and was complaining about how heavy that slide is!!

Anyway, I feel like I have access to a whole new way of playing on this amazing bell now that I have a modern slide that is so fast...it is also very durable so great for flying or if you bump into someone its fine.

The carbon fiber slide parts fit my original slide components perfectly...precise measurements...so it's like having 4 slides in one...for chamber work I will probably put the original outer on my Butler inner slide with the curved grip.

David is also a very nice guy and he's making a superior product that is half the price of a daCarbo trombone made in Switzerland...and he's a gigging player on the Dallas scene.  If anyone is looking for a modern slide option for their vintage bell or maybe just an extremely lightweight horn...I recommend you check his stuff out and see for yourself!!


17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: My visit with Roy Lawler on: May 15, 2017, 03:32PM
Talked to Alex last week too...I still have my Lawler which I love, but I've been rocking the Wayne Andre conn 6H bell I have with a new Butler carbon fiber slide and the Lawler 15 leadpipe...maybe everyone can try everything out! Think I'll be home May 31st if you end up having an extra visitor slot.

I'm touring with a pop country band out of Nashville this summer so hoping to take a few trips to Roy's shop and try out some new stuff...I really want him to put an f Attachment on a .508 horn for me.... ;-))))


18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: BAC Modifications on: May 08, 2017, 07:01AM
He means what he said...some of the horns Mike made were just soooo heavy they were too tiring to hold for a long time.

Mike can make amazing instruments and do amazing work--up until about a year there was another former employee helping to work on horns while Mike was in china securing manufacturing deals for their student lines and marching band instruments--this guy did a pretty bad job on horns, on a regular basis. Horns that Mike personally handled all the way through were much more concise.

I dropped thousands of dollars on two horns with him and they both needed so much repair work it made me sick. Eventually after getting him on the phone he agreed to completely rebuild my 3B and add a custom F Attachment with a rotor from the Williams parts cabinet he owns for free.

It is really an amazing horn and although pretty heavy (has some solid brass weight built on like a Elliot Mason's horn) one of his best builds.

He has a new team and is doing the custom work on his own now. The quality has gone way up. This is just in the last year or so, honestly.

There's still a lot more work to do on his end--it seems like more attention to detail is spent on the horns he makes for the famous guys and I think his prices are way too high--the quality control isn't there with Shires/Rath/Boutique honestly, but if you are looking for an amazing horn with a lot of character, I suggest visiting Kansas City or trying out his horns at an event in person and finding one you love!
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Small bore horns: light or heavy. Which do you prefer? on: May 07, 2017, 05:35AM
I've been leaning towards thicker and generally heavier bells paired with lighter slides. Don't break up and can play fast and play for longer on long endurance amplified gigs, pop stuff, etc.

My 36 has a pretty thick gold brass bell and a nickel slide.
My 3BF has a custom trigger and solid brass weight built on it with the nickel slide.
My 6H is an older nice thick bell and I've been using a new Butler Trombones carbon fiber slide on it for the pop gigs---this combo has been amazing. Bell sounds amazing, but the slide was too heavy for brass band gigs and long endurance gigs...this solves it and articulation pop more like nickel silver...
My Lawler I use the least now, but when I do with the thicker Bronze bell. This seems to be the thinnest bell I play on and the lightest...breaks up on me for some of the work I currently do.
20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: My visit with Roy Lawler on: Feb 22, 2017, 12:09PM
This thread inspired me to reach out to Roy again yesterday, as its almost been one year since I received my horn from him.  He's going to loop me into some play testing for the new things as well.

I've been playing the 15 lead pipe...but recently felt like I needed a bit more resistance and have gravitated to the 5 lead pipe and I'm really into it.

I also needed to blast some low E-Flats on a recording session last night...pulled the tuning slide alllll the way out and it sounded SO GOOD.

Other modern makers I've worked with made me horns that wouldn't even sound in tune if I pulled the tuning slide all the way out or all the way in.  His horn is so in tune.

I'll always love my vintage horns, but this horn really is, to me, the modern day answer.
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