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1061141 Posts in 70640 Topics- by 18465 Members - Latest Member: diddyjt
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1  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: What to do with overly-loud trumpet players? on: Mar 21, 2017, 04:03PM
there have more than a few times when I wish I had used some ear protection, band or rock concert or otherwise.

protect your ears

T
+1 on this, seems like the simplest/best solution if everything actually sounds good to the audience
2  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Okay, grammar folks... on: Mar 21, 2017, 09:34AM

I'll agree if "usually" just means more-than-50%.  I've heard lots of English that was pretty much incomprehensible. By native-born Americans, even.  :D

:-P :-P
3  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Okay, grammar folks... on: Mar 20, 2017, 09:30PM
The funny thing is, we are hung up on all these grammar rules as if they have been engraved in stone since English was a language instead of having been developed in the 19th and early 20th century.  Look at writings from before that time.  Spelling wasn't fixed.  Capitalization wasn't fixed.  Punctuation wasn't fixed.  All these 'rules' were developed in by English professors trying to make English adhere to Latin rules.

But even then - you've gota admit that it IS nicer to have a slightly more coherent structure to a language. English, in all its flavors, seems to have pretty stable rules for each variation. It's just that people don't seem to use 'em!
4  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: Brass Band Woes on: Mar 20, 2017, 03:18PM
I can definitely say I know the feel, to a degree ... Couple of years ago I was involved in a youth big band- GREAT high school and first-year-college players, it was a fantastic experience for me. We were heading to a competition in winter and were playing "Concerto for Cootie" and "57th Street Mambo" (great tune, look that one up if you haven't heard it!). We'd practiced like mad, and it sounded GOOD in the rehearsals. Got to the performance venue, were warming up, one of the trumpet got the bright idea that we shouldn't tune and that we should just go on. Instructor goes along with it, given how good we were sounding in the rehearsal room.


WHAT. A. BOMB. The instructor counted up a bit too fast - things were out of tune, it was just a colossal failure. No clue whyt we did that. We bombed it, more or less, if my memory recalls.
5  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Okay, grammar folks... on: Mar 20, 2017, 03:00PM
...or swedish. The verb does not change in swedish depending on who wins (or who win?). In Sweden everybody is a winner (oops!! everybody is a group too, isn't it..oh no another one right away. Can't make a post without making at least one new example).

//
Gryffindor vinner!!!

Interesting topic :-)
/Tom

That's the most particular language (or group - knowing Norwegian is the same) I was referring to.

Must be a COMPLETE MESS in Finnish, knowing that they have the craziest number of grammatical rules and slight variations in spelling on completely different words based on such tiny details.
6  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Okay, grammar folks... on: Mar 20, 2017, 12:21PM
"Gryffindor win!!!!"

All the American kids is scratching they're heads like "whuuut?".

I remember being very disturbed by that line in Harry Potter. Because Gryffindor wins. They don't win.  .... wait.... It doesn't win. ... wait. ... Gryffindor don't wins

There we go

Looking at this though, we DO we say (in the case that Gryffindor is reffered to in singular) "Gryffindor wins", but adding the "doesn't" make it so that "Gryffindor doesn't WIN"? Obviously we don't typically say "Gryffindor win not", like in other languages, but we also sort of remove the reference to whether it's still singular or plural (if I'm thinking straight). Sounds just like an evolution of grammar thing regarding the words don't and doesn't.


Gryffindor don't wins. Gryffindor win.

Funniest thing I've read all day!
7  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Re: Okay, grammar folks... on: Mar 20, 2017, 10:09AM
ah, the joys of English grammar...
Bingo. We've got some stuff that I find to be just silly.

But English phonetics is where we really take the cake in the "making as much confusion as possible"-game.
8  Practice Break / Found on the 'Net / SUPER-long bell taper on this'n on: Mar 20, 2017, 10:08AM
Looking at this: https://reverb.com/item/4489413-h-n-white-the-king-medium-bore-low-pitch-1925-silver-with-gold-leaf

Is it just me or does it appear to have a much 'longer' taper in the bell, more like a sackbut? If so, would it get more french horn/sackbut-like sonic qualities? Or what would be the acoustical effects caused by this difference in design?
9  Practice Break / Chit-Chat / Okay, grammar folks... on: Mar 20, 2017, 09:26AM
Not sure why, but I was just thinking about this this morning....

We say, "He finds the chicken is too dry", but "They find the chicken is too dry".
But often times, you see written things like, "A group of scientists find that chicken is dry".

This is incorrect grammar, is it not?

Seems like it should be "A group of scientists finds...", since we're basically saying, "A group finds..."

We're referring to "A group" of scientists, not the "multiple" scientists themselves, eh?
10  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Sight-reading THIS bad?? on: Mar 19, 2017, 06:03PM
I guess I don't understand. If you look at transposed treble and can read it as if it were tenor clef, and you understand that some accidentals are off ... why does it matter if you call a Bb a C? It's the same note. It is much LESS efficient to learn the transposed clef in C as you describe. Why would you want to learn that the note that is read as a C needs to be transposed down a whole step to Bb and then dropped down an octave? You can just look at it and know, "ok, this is transpsed treble music. A C is on the exact same space as a Bb in tenor clef. It sounds the exact same as a Bb. When a trumpet is playing a C, a Bb actually comes out ... ok ... I got this. And I don't need to bother with octaves. I just need to have good ears and know what key I'm in."

There's another thread like this about a british band solo.

Didn't mean to say I'm manually going through the entire process of transposing down an octave and a step - no, no! I'm saying, YES, I look at a tenor clef - which looks like a D in treble clef - and yes, I KNOW what the pitch is because I'm just reading it as a C clef, adding in the accidentals and fixing the keys.

I just fumble with it.

I *get* the system I'm working with, more or less - see a D on the treble clef line, but instead read a C as if it's a tenor clef line and play it in C-tenor clef. Then it DOESN'T matter what I call the note (as long as I use correct terminology with my treble clef-speaking colleagues). Like I said, I just fumble with it.


I think I'm gonna just pore through what's been written here, pick out what sounds best and give it a shot for a few weeks.

Thanks for recommendations and comments so far, guys. I need to get to work  Good! Good!
11  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Sight-reading THIS bad?? on: Mar 19, 2017, 05:48AM
What you're describing is not knowing how to read tenor clef or having an ear for pitches though.

"One is that some of the mental process is tied to the physical proprioceptive memory that includes holding the instrument."

True. Trumpet will be different to hold and push buttons, but once you learn the concert pitch of each of those buttons (same as trombone) then it is much easier to realize that   and  Tenor Clef are both Bb rather than one being a C and one being a Bb.

"I find that on alto everything feels so different that picking an F out of the air, even if I remember the position ... This is apparently more complicated than it seems. "

Whoops

"Sure, you can look at 3rd space C and realize it's Bb concert and fingered open.  By that time you're three measures past."

Reading is a perishable and practice worthy skill.

But Harrision, I think it is exactly that - and you'll see it on what I wrote after Tim's quote down there - I don't look at a chart or piece written in Bb and read it as Bb, I AM actually reading it as tenor clef. When I pick up the horn, my first thought goes to playing in concert pitch - generally no thought given to Bb.
My C-reading isn't really there, I could read in C once 3 or so years ago but I forced it out of my thought-process to stop confusing myself while learning tenor clef. Of course I can name all the pitches, but no where near as quickly as I can call out pitches when looking at the staff as a tenor-clef staff. The notes names have (more or less unfortunately) become second nature.
But when I'm looking at something written in Bb-treble clef, I "see" all the notes as notes on a tenor clef staff in C, and then calculate the key signature accordingly.



It's not JUST that it looks different.

It might just be (sorry Harrison, I have a different take on this) that it IS different with a different horn in your hand.


I wouldn't be put off from believing this in part. I'm not born and raised on valves like I am with the tenor bone, so even after this much time and practice, it's still not quite "home" like the trombone is yet.

So YES, I am transposing from C-tenor to Bb-treble - up a seventh, right? (right??) - and then having to figure out keys and accidentals on the spot. I think that's part of what tripping me up big-time though; I haven't begun thinking in a way where the key of C for the trumpet is concert Bb, or the key of Db is concert Eb. I'm trying to think in a way where I transpose the key first (easy part), then 'calculate' the accidentals on the fly while reading the part as a tenor-clef part.


Is that inefficient? How do I get more comfort and security when my process seems to use a bit more brain-power than might actually be necessary?

It's a good thing I'm only playing for fun as of now!
12  Teaching & Learning / Beginners and Returning Trombonists / Re: Advice on Hitting High Notes? on: Mar 17, 2017, 05:49AM
Do (we) trombonists talk about compression differently than trumpeters do? Or are there two kinds? (I've heard it sometimes referred to the valves, and other times to the air/tongue system)
13  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Sight-reading THIS bad?? on: Mar 16, 2017, 09:58AM
 Yeah, RIGHT.
What you're describing is not knowing how to read tenor clef or having an ear for pitches though.

"One is that some of the mental process is tied to the physical proprioceptive memory that includes holding the instrument."

True. Trumpet will be different to hold and push buttons, but once you learn the concert pitch of each of those buttons (same as trombone) then it is much easier to realize that   and  Tenor Clef are both Bb rather than one being a C and one being a Bb.

"I find that on alto everything feels so different that picking an F out of the air, even if I remember the position ... This is apparently more complicated than it seems. "

Whoops

"Sure, you can look at 3rd space C and realize it's Bb concert and fingered open.  By that time you're three measures past."

Reading is a perishable and practice worthy skill.


Thing behind ALL this is that I'm pretty confident I can READ tenor clef nearly as well as I read bass - since I actually learned it first and used, or dare I say, USE it when I'm looking at Bb. It's just so strange. My mind disconnects rhythm and pitch when I'm actually going for it in realtime. I CAN look at any pitch on the bass, tenor, or treble clef and finger it correctly on the horn (trumpet OR trombone), and I CAN look at a wide variety of rhythms and correctly tap them out without a lot of preparation. But when the combine, then everything clogs up, big time...

Perhaps I just need to do it more to get my brain acclimated to the process of reading? I haven't done a lot of playing from the sheet in the past two years, and have done extremely little in Bb. To make it worse, I have of late had *none* of my practice time devoted to sight-reading or reading skills in general. So maybe I just need to dig it up, brush it off, and see if the reason is not because I CAN'T read Bb, but because my brain isn't ready to process it fast enough to read it on the fly, and that a couple weeks of practice will get things moving. Maybe!
14  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Sight-reading THIS bad?? on: Mar 15, 2017, 11:43AM
Painful trumpet practice session today. I decided I'd sit down and try to just read through some tunes, but for whatever reason, my Bb reading is just not a thing. It does not exist on this plane of existence.
I don't know why, but my tone gets really gross and uncontrolled, my rhythm reading goes out the window, note-distance relationships and note-recognition are all COMPLETELY gone when trying to sightread a tune in Bb.
Funny thing is, my bass clef sight reading and general reading are pretty good. But Bb I just cannot crack.

Any tips? There's got to be some secret keys to making this all work... I practice SO much trumpet and my tone, range and technique have gotten pretty decent, but my reading is so bad that it negates all the good completely!
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: King 606 vs Yamaha 354 on: Mar 14, 2017, 03:54PM
I would hazard a guess that you need new slide bumpers (felt disks that fit in the cork barrels).  You may not even have your old ones.  Getting the old ones out is a PITA, but putting in the new ones is really easy.

Is there a lot of play in the slide when you engage the slide lock?

Quick sidetrack - are there any tutorials on this? Got a '56 Ambassador that plays great but really needs new bumpers. Can they just be placed right over the old ones - if there are any?
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Help! Dented tuning slide- everything I play is flat?? on: Mar 14, 2017, 10:32AM
False alarm, guys! After extensive testing on my three horns (even going through the tracking phase for a new recording I'm working on), I'm finding that Burgerbob's assumption is right. The tone exercises I've been doing have lead me to playing with a FAR less pinched embouchure - something I didn't even realize I was doing. This results in a generally flatter "tonal center", if it can be called that, that accompanies the fuller tone.

On my large bore, I can still pull the slide a bit before I'm in-tune (except when doing bass stuff where I need it pretty much all the way in. Chops haven't gotten quite strong enough yet for the 1.5G)

You may be playing with a more open oral cavity than before, bringing your pitch down. If it sounds good, just play with the tuning slide all the way in.
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: King 606 vs Yamaha 354 on: Mar 12, 2017, 10:40PM
Recently I found a late 1970s 606. It needed a new hand built spit valve screw-- they are obsolete. The late 70s ones have all yellow slide. I also needed a few alignments does to the slide and now it is perfect. Total cost of the repairs by a master, including remaking from scratch a new screw for spit valve? $66.

My 606 is now my go-to horn for all small bore professional use. Better in all respects than a silversonic 1963 HN White 2B I had. The 606 has an astonishing upper register and guts to burn. Nio idea how the new 606 plays, but the 40 year old one is hands-down the best small tenor ( including a Rath I owned) I've  ever tried.

How does an all yellow 606 compare to a 354? The 354 feels and sounds like a toy compared to a 606. The 354 feels flimsy compared to a 606.

I may well have to get my hands on a 606 to test this. Maybe a local shop has one for rent.
I LOVE my 354 - but then I haven't played a host of other small bores. The extent of my use of other small bores include only a small bore trigger Roy Benson and some other cheap Chinese horn. The only other horn I've tested extensively is a '56 Olds Ambassador - found that it plays a little bit like a larger-bore horn than my 354, but it sound more compact, bright, and direct. Just a *teensy bit* too much work for my tastes for a small bore.
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: What DOES a "pro" horn bring to the table? on: Mar 10, 2017, 10:55PM
Did I miss it?  Where is this mentioned?

Perhaps I shoe-horned that one in. Hadn't read / interpreted the topic thoroughly enough.


It seems like the OP might be just trying to justify a decision to stay on student gear. No justification is necessary. Play what you like.

I only wrote the topic to raise the question - since it's just always been a mystery to me. I know I really will have to try a host of other horns of all types, manufacturers, etc. before I can *REALLY* understand these differences on a multi-faceted level.

Or, I can just stick with what I've got and get as good as I can to keep doing what I wanna do. Pant I'm not planning to go pro, and I don't see myself ever playing on a level where I'll really NEED these little factors adjusted to make the horn perfect for me- as long as I'm having fun and playing exactly how I want to play, then the horns are doing their job as far as I'm concerned!
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: What DOES a "pro" horn bring to the table? on: Mar 10, 2017, 07:51AM
Wow  Amazed This gives me a slightly wider perspective on why some guys move to the priciest horns available and why some of us (plebs, dare I say) are happy with our 354's!  :-P :-P

It seems a lot like a combination of (strong) personal preferences towards certain sonic/feedback characteristics, being drawn towards certain build qualities / model-specific features or advantages, as well as the desire to impress the other guys in the section. I'll need to get out there a bit more and try more horns. Even after the wide array of what i HAVE tried, I don't feel like I've really gotten a taste of the full spectrum from the worst to the greatest.
20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Help! Dented tuning slide- everything I play is flat?? on: Mar 09, 2017, 11:58AM
Whoops - I'll try to get audio posted in the next few days. It's not *notoriously* flat, just a lot flatter than I'm used to horns being when pushed all the way in.
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