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1092611 Posts in 72301 Topics- by 19426 Members - Latest Member: BassBoneGatz
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1  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Too loose tuning slide? on: Jan 14, 2018, 07:23AM
I have experience this with one of my horns. I used the method to bend one leg a little and that fixed the problem.

Not my favorite method, but definitely the easiest to do without any tools.

It is better to make the diameters fit properly, but that requires tools, time, and experience.

2  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Getting a red brass bell on: Jan 12, 2018, 06:07PM

Does a person have to be lucky to find holton bells, or did you just find a holton bone and strip it?
A few years ago there was a cache of 280 bells (screw bells) that were available on eBay.

I was also lucky to get one, as was Blast.  It is a fun bell, but I still need to get a case to take advantage it.

3  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bach to produce a new Friedman model and reintroduce the 45 on: Jan 12, 2018, 06:03PM
Conn had (has?) the 88HK. 9" bell. Would be mated with .547/.562 slide presumably.

I haven't run into any in the wild. I'm guessing the market is not demanding this product.
Huh.  I love the 45B, I have two, but this is not going to be popular.

The sound fits in nicely as he said, but the horn as engineered doesnít fit in. I wonder why this is. All other sizes have adapted to a fairly consistent response and tuning layout, but that small bass tweener size hasnít been corrected to fit in.

Well, to the resurgence of the 45B!
4  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Forgotten mouthpiece? on: Jan 12, 2018, 07:24AM
Brought the wrong music book or no music at all? Grabbed the wrong trombone case? Showed up to the wrong venue and had to race to make it on time? Iíve done worse than forgetting a mouthpiece  Evil
I used to have a huge folder that I kept all the music for my various gigs in at the same time.  That way I would never forget the music, right?  Well... one Christmas season I was playing both the band and orchestra arrangements of ďA Christmas FestivalĒ. D, Db. Are they really that different?

5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Getting a red brass bell on: Jan 11, 2018, 07:34PM
Then why are the 50BL bells always so thin?

If they are made the way you said they are then they would be the same exact thickness as a regular 50B bell, which in many of our experiences... is not the case.
The metal gets thinner as you spread out in diameter the way Bach forms their bells. If you trimmed it back an inch, it would be extremely similar/within normal variation near the (new) rim.

6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Getzen 1062 vs. Getzen custom on: Jan 08, 2018, 06:44PM
Quick question: I want to get tuning slide straight tubes to fit a Getzen Custom bass. Are those the same as the 1062 Eterna model?
Yes. 1052, 1062, 3062, and B454 all share the same tuning slide tubes. Or, at least they all did ten years ago the last time I touched them.

7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Types of spit valves and benefits on: Jan 05, 2018, 05:23PM
It's just a standard water key no?
Yes, but I would describe it as a low profile water key.

I might get a chance to get a picture up later this weekend.

8  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Types of spit valves and benefits on: Jan 04, 2018, 07:35PM
Not a new style of water key by any means, but the water key on a new M&W slide I have is the best executed spit key that I have ever seen.  Just top notch fit and finish and looks like there was plenty of attention to detail on something very small.

Kudos to them, and consider a slide from M&W.

9  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bach Bass too flat on: Jan 03, 2018, 09:22AM
None of that has anything to do with what I asked you. I did look at the picture, obviously, which is why I asked you those questions. But you seem to be getting upset about this for no reason, so let's just forget it, o.k.?
Not upset at you, just annoyed that I am unable to communicate such a simple concept.  Here with some better pictures.

Some 42 tuning slide tubes:

Late 90s shorter length, middle is a Mt.V 42, Old one is a NY34 (same tuning slide assembly as the 36/42).

And some 50B tubes:

Attached one is a NY/MTV 50 section that I think you pulled off a horn for Noah (from before the bore size change), The loose long one is the original from the horn in the above thread (late 60's Elkhart), the first short one is stock from that 2006/7 time frame (it is the single adapter I built for that same valve set), and the real short one is what Randy Campora had cut his down to (I bought his old valve section and put it on a different horn).

Didn't take caliper measurements today, but Bach trimmed more out of the 42 assembly than they did out of the 50.  I feel that is an error and it should be a little shorter, maybe not quite where Randy cut his, but close.

10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bach Bass too flat on: Jan 02, 2018, 10:19AM
Well no, it's not irrelevant. If the length of the thayer section you installed was shorter from where it connects to the receiver, to the tuning slide tube, then there would be a gap, even if the new tuning slide outer were the same length as the old one. You seemed to be saying the fact that there's a gap proves the new part is shorter than the old part. Maybe you also compared the two parts side by side,  but you didn't say that you did.
Dang it, Brad, just look at the picture!  The tuning slide on the small side is actually too close to the tuning slide if you look, not too close to the handslide receiver that would be required by what you state. Recall that this ferrule from Bach is countersunk for the tuning slide receiver, so it sits flush into a shoulder on the ferrule.  That is, you can assemble the ferrule and receiver sitting on the bench without the horn. FWIW, I put the handslide receiver joint in the exact place it was on the original because I didn't want to screw up the bell rim placement relative to my face.

On this initial mount, I cheated the the small one towards the tuning slide bow because it was shorter.  The straight sections of nickel tubing are different length.  A picture isn't a good way to exactly measure this, but it is off by about 1/2".  It would still be off if the valves were sitting in the box unopened just looking at the brace locations relative to the ferrules and main tuning slide bow.  The small and large tuning slide tubes are supposed to be the same length. They were the same length on the factory parts, they were not when I mixed parts of different vintages (the entire point of the picture). For fun, I also had to trim the main tuning slide tube on the NY45 when I made that tuning slide and bell flare fit the same valve section later (and planning for a NY50 that is sitting next to it).  Having had to make the same cut several times, you tend to remember it.  Especially if you lose one of those little beauty rings on the end of the tuning slide. 

I'll take some pictures and measurements of my 42 parts later to show this if I have a chance when I get home.

11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bach Bass too flat on: Jan 01, 2018, 06:59PM
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't follow as to why you didn't use the original tuning slide tube in the conversion, and how you know the Thayer valve set isn't just shorter than the original valve set.
Because I wanted to keep the original dependent section.  Parts were cheap enough I didnít worry about it.

And the length of the valve section is irrelevant.  Iím only talking about the length of the straight section of the tuning slides.  The length of the valve section would matter for the overall tuning of the horn, Iím just pointing out that bach noticed the issue and made a change on their own.  Not sure when, but somewhere between 1969 and 2004.

They arenít ďtoo longĒ for most to play them without issue, even at a high professional level.  Just that letís say the design intent is for most to play with the horn @ A440 with the tuning slide out ~1/2-3/4Ē out.  My guess is that they missed that by at least 3/16ths.   Just enough for those that play on the extreme of pitch to not have any room on the slide to adjust.

12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bach Bass too flat on: Dec 31, 2017, 05:43PM

Look at the main tuning slide from the initial conversion of my Bach bass. Big leg is closed, original length of tuning slide. Small leg, which was a new 2006ish part. Notice how it is shorter and not seated? The tube is just shorter, man, not mis aligned. Yes, I fixed this later.

(Note to mods the pic is in my gallery here if I mucked up the link)

13  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bach Bass too flat on: Dec 31, 2017, 05:38PM
No disrespect intended, but here is why I disagree with your theory:

1. There are lots of ALL used trombones floating around, not just Bachs.

2. The idea being promoted in this thread is not that there are "good ones" and "flat ones", but rather that Bachs are ALL flat. And again, if that were the case, then they would ALL have to be cut down, and they are not all cut down. In fact, very few of them are cut down.

3. I can't accept the idea that Bach manufactured hundreds of thousands of trombones just so people can buy them, realize that they are no good, and "flip" them. Bitcoin maybe, but trombones, no. The Bach 42 and the Conn 88H were THE standard for a long time, and were used in most major symphonies. If this were a horn that is unusably flat, that just couldn't have occurred. It's impossible.
No, really... Bach changed the design length of the straight sections of tuning slide. The design closed length was too long and they changed it.  I donít have my 50B original tubes anymore, but the straight parts were about 1/2Ē longer.  Iím too lazy to get a camera or tape measure, but I can show this on my 42s, as I have a 90s Elkhart and a MTV downstairs.  Bachs were designed too long, the factory made a change, and it still wasnít enough to match the market.

Oh, and the Conn Fuchs down there is also too long.

14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bach Bass too flat on: Dec 30, 2017, 07:07PM
You'd think the Bach builders would catch on after a while and just make the darn tuning slide shorter.  They must be deaf and blind.
Nah, they are just faithful to old ideas to a fault.  You may have noticed that they still make two basses that are Bb/F/bE and make it a pain to buy a slide to put it in Eb or D.

Of course, the really funny thing is that they DID shorten the tuning slides from V.B.ís original designs.  Just not enough.  Really, check out the straight tuning slide lengths on some original Mt.V and NY large tenors and basses.  Hilariously too long.

15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Repairs, Modifications and Maintenance / Re: Bach Bass too flat on: Dec 28, 2017, 08:55PM
Hi All-

I've got a Bach 50B2 that I just picked up and I'm having an issue I hope you can help shed some light on. No matter what I do I can not get the thing up to pitch. Always 20-25 cents flat.

This one still has the valve linkage where both valves are operated by the thumb. The slide receiver obviously has been replaced from a horn with a traditional thumb and middle finger valve setup (you can see the diamond shaped outline from where the old second valve linkage was attached). Does anyone have an original 50B2 that is willing to verify how long that slide receiver is on their horn? I am not sure if this is the standard "all bach basses need to be cut down" thing, or if that replacement slide receiver was taken from a different Bach model that has a longer slide receiver.


The hand slide receiver on all Bach basses is the longest hand slide receiver that I know of from modern basses.  Any other make is 1/2 inch shorter.

Bach basses are just built flat.
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Music Stand for Laptop on: Dec 22, 2017, 09:52AM
Are you looking for it to be in portrait or landscape mode? I can see the benefits to both, especially with a 17" screen.  17 isd like two ipads side by side and I use my smaller ipad for music fairly comfortably.

This is a laptop computer, not a screen.

For all: to be clear, I'm looking for a stand that I need for work to program machines to make car parts.  I was hoping that this investment could line up with a nice new music stand as the side benefit.

I don't plan on reading any music off the computer, the music and computer are entirely separate interests here.

17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Music Stand for Laptop on: Dec 22, 2017, 08:59AM
That's a honkin' big laptop.  17"?

There is a Hamilton that has clamps for the desk and the post.  It's not portable, though.

I've put my 12.5" Lenovo tablet on a Manahasset Voyager, but for a 7 pounder you'd probably need to put a clamp on the vertical column (I used a hose clamp).

Dell 7720.  "Mobile Engineering Workstation."  Glad I have to carry this thing everywhere.  Trying to find a nice mobile platform for it that I can maybe use after hours so that it isn't a waste of space purchase.

18  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Roy Moore is a m-o-r-o-n on: Dec 22, 2017, 08:31AM
In My Opinion, Hillary and Bill are guilty of crimes. Your opinion may vary.

The crimes that we think Hillary are accused of is not a "he said/she said", and are not classified as campaign allegations.

Allegations against Moore, on the other hand, is nothing more than 'He said she said", and only have been brought up as campaign allegations.

It's not my fault that people don't see the differences.

No, it is your fault.

It isn't "He said, she said".

It is "He said, she said, she also said, this other she said, still another she said, lots more shes said, and even the darned shopping mall said."

Such a strange hill to try to defend.

The folks didn't come forward because they wanted to, they came forward because of good journalism, reporters finding the stories and doing solid reporting.  Can you consider the fact that maybe there were more that weren't willing to go on record?

19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Music Stand for Laptop on: Dec 22, 2017, 08:26AM
Are there any music stands that are strong enough to hold a big laptop? Trying to hold a Dell that weighs about 7.5#.

My Peak doesn't cut it.

Would the Rat Jazz stand support that much?

20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Mt Vernon Bach 36 bell size on: Dec 20, 2017, 09:12AM

The nickel sleeves on the handslide are of an equal length, too, which is unusual.

No.  That is normal.  Until the middle of the Mt. Vernon period the oversleeves were of equal length on Bach horns. This is just a sign of the age of the horn.

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