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1096443 Posts in 72518 Topics- by 19534 Members - Latest Member: TomF
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1  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Interesting panning in big band albums on: Feb 01, 2018, 04:05AM
They say pan pots already exist and are available and being used on commercial recordings by late fifties.

Blue Note late to the game? Guess so. They did how many Beatle albums?

Have you thought about doing a little research yourself? Start with a book like "Stereo Microphone Techniques" by Bruce Bartlett, which deals with recording events as a whole, and where a panning control works in a similar way to the balance control on a stereo amp.

But, the "pseudo" stereo on the albums in question is more of a construction from the isolated instrumental elements, mixed together using the (very expensive) gear available at that time. Some studios even made their own.

I'm old enough to have worked in some studios in London in the early '70's, the equipment was very limited by any modern standard. Still sounded good though..
2  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Interesting panning in big band albums on: Jan 31, 2018, 02:16PM

I don't doubt that some studio was too cheap to get pan knobs but you could buy a home stereo with a pan knob by 1963 at least.





This should cover it.

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/2014/07/24/guest-post-how-they-heard-it-blue-note-records-and-the-transition-from-mono-to-stereo/


http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/history-of-panning-stereo-imagining.304465/
3  Creation and Performance / Musical Miscellany / Re: Interesting panning in big band albums on: Jan 31, 2018, 12:30PM
Are these albums from the 50s and 60s?

"STEREO" was a big selling point.  You paid for STEREO and you're going to get it!






I remember the first time I heard stereo. After only having heard mono recordings it was joltingly different and magical and people loved that separation of sound.

The classic Stereo faux pas of that era was the Beatles albums that were recorded with the intention of being mixed to mono but the (U.S. ?) record label needed a Stereo release so they hard-panned the vocals to one side and the instruments to the other.  It was almost painful to listen to those with headphones.





In these early times the studios didn't have Pan knobs (or potentiometers), but switches, so that channels could only be sent Left Mid or Right. Also the modern mixers with multiple bussing/routing etc were still a few years away.
4  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: German trombone sound concept on: Jan 31, 2018, 08:19AM
I don't know about German orchestral, but at one time I listened to quite a bit of German folk music with trombone.

It was always mellow.  They never pushed it to bright. 

Years back I borrowed a "German style" small bore, that Yamaha that was sold for a while.  It played mellow fine, but was very hard to push bright.  It seemed to just get dull, loud but never edgy. 

Wasn't the shift to large bore Trombones about not wanting the "bright"sound of the small bore horns? "Loud but not edgy" sounds ideal to me.
5  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: B&S Meistersinger 14 vs Kuhnl & Hoyer Bolero on: Jan 27, 2018, 01:26AM

Most of the outer slide tubes I own are either yellow brass or nickel silver.


The same here, until I recently bought a new K+H 480/88". Which apart from a slightly bigger bell (195mm rather than 180mm) and a "bronze" outer slide is identical to my standard 480/88" but plays in a very different manner. It has softer slots and warmer sound even in 1st position. I need to get some measuring tools to confirm the spec's.

6  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: B&S Meistersinger 14 vs Kuhnl & Hoyer Bolero on: Jan 26, 2018, 11:34AM


There is less demand for German-style trombone, and thus higher price. They also tend to be made from gold brass, which adds to the price tag.


A reference to diminishing economies of scale for manufacturing less popular instruments?
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: B&S Meistersinger 14 vs Kuhnl & Hoyer Bolero on: Jan 26, 2018, 11:04AM
It may have been bronze... I'm not really up to determining that on the spot!

I meant generally, Is a bronze outer slide rare?
8  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Technology / Re: Recommend a microphone for iOS device (iPhone/iPad)? on: Jan 26, 2018, 01:53AM

I still sound terrible, *BUT*, this mic made it clear that it's my attacks that suck rather than the total sound.  I still have a ton of work to do for a very long time, but I think this mic will help me dial things in.

Thanks again, everyone!

In audio settings in the recording App, make sure that Auto Level Control, ALC, any filters like "Hi Pass" "enhance" etc or unchecked. There's many YouTube videos of otherwise good recordings spoilt by having their attacks and tone mangled through the miss-use of ALC's and High pass filters.
9  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: B&S Meistersinger 14 vs Kuhnl & Hoyer Bolero on: Jan 26, 2018, 01:41AM
It's definitely not exactly like anything American, with all the gold brass and nickel.

My latest K+H has a "bronze" outer slide, is that comparatively rare?
10  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: B&S Meistersinger 14 vs Kuhnl & Hoyer Bolero on: Jan 25, 2018, 09:48AM
You could get one on sale or return from Thomann.de. They have a 30 trial period, so if you don't like it, send it back. I've bought two Bart van Lier's this way. The Kuhnl+Hoyer build quality is superb as well.
11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Some advices for mouthpiece ? on: Jan 25, 2018, 09:36AM

The Yammy seems more similar to the 7CS and the 6 BS to the 6 1/2 AL.


The DW 9BS is closer to the 6.5AL IMO. It's like their last smaller m/p and is even recommended as a student m/p in their blurb, "having an easier high range".
12  Creation and Performance / Music, Concerts and Recordings / Re: Frank Crisafulli before embouchre debacle on: Jan 25, 2018, 03:10AM

but personally I dont think you can use a blanket statement like "American sound".... to me thats like saying "european sound". There is so much diversity within those categories....


Not half as much as there was 40/50 years ago. But I was wondering if the Chicago sound was mainly a tone concept, but it seems to be a lot more than that.
13  Creation and Performance / Music, Concerts and Recordings / Re: Frank Crisafulli before embouchre debacle on: Jan 24, 2018, 02:16PM
To hear the classic Chicago sound/style, listen to those old Reiner recordings from the 1950's. I heard them live in 1980 when most of the legends were still on their seats and it was one of the all time great orchestra sounds.... the brass were a totally blended glory.... Herseth at the top and Jacobs at the bottom.... and Crisafulli doing his wonderful thing.

Chris Stearn

So what relationship does the "Chicago" sound have to the contemporary American one, and has it influenced the modern ideal?
14  Creation and Performance / Music, Concerts and Recordings / Re: Frank Crisafulli before embouchre debacle on: Jan 24, 2018, 06:53AM
I listened to them. I enjoyed them, but did not comment due to a lack a creds on that genre.

...Geezer

Exactly what is "Chicago sound/style."? Is it also what brought about the changes in the UK orchestras led in part by Denis Wick?
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: New Wessex PBF565 bass trombone on: Jan 20, 2018, 08:37AM

On this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3PFX8aCvj8 hes up close and on the mic.

https://www.discogs.com/Kai-Windings-Trombones-And-Orchestra-And-Orchestra-Kai-Ol/release/8430632

I owned this album in the 70s and bought it during a long tour of the US, have just grabbed it again on Amazon. Oh Joy!!

The CD arrived today and has 2 Bass tbns, Tony Stud and George West. Anyone know anything about him?

(A 2017 reissue by the way.)
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Technology / Re: Trying to identify old microphones on: Jan 20, 2018, 08:27AM
They're just generic dynamic hand held stage mics, with on/off switches, if you use them and they work for you, no problem.
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: Some advices for mouthpiece ? on: Jan 18, 2018, 05:59AM
If you like the 6.5AL try a DW 9BS. It's a similar size but has a slightly more focused sound and speaks well in the upper register.
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: New Wessex PBF565 bass trombone on: Jan 18, 2018, 05:53AM
Actually it is Paul Faulise on the recording I posted. Dick Hixon did the earlier Elgart recordings-Paul the later. Paul told me this directly-

http://www.trombone-usa.com/faulise_paul_bio.htm
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: New Wessex PBF565 bass trombone on: Jan 18, 2018, 02:19AM
On this recording  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bvI3Uexm9c  TS sounds like hes playing out and from a distance.

On this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3PFX8aCvj8 hes up close and on the mic.

https://www.discogs.com/Kai-Windings-Trombones-And-Orchestra-And-Orchestra-Kai-Ol/release/8430632

I owned this album in the 70s and bought it during a long tour of the US, have just grabbed it again on Amazon. Oh Joy!!
20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Accessories / Re: Can you help to find THE practice mute ? on: Jan 17, 2018, 03:16PM


But... It makes me more undecided than ever  :D


If you can't make up your mind, does it make any difference? The difference between the "right" one, and the "not so right" one is going to be minuscule in 2018.

Over the course of a musical lifetime you'll get plenty of chances to get things right or wrong; but as long as you're moving in the right direction..

(I'd still avoid the Wick though.)
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