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1080703 Posts in 71534 Topics- by 19059 Members - Latest Member: francesco.ro79
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1  Practice Break / Religion / Re: Atheism: Good or Bad? (non-PP) on: Today at 04:36 PM
I find myself in complete agreement with Gould.
2  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Today at 04:35 PM
Riches are only one of the possible examples of idolatry-- any thing that is put in the place of following Christ would be idolatry according to New Testament.  That would include power or intellectual arrogance as seen in his dialogues with the scribes, for example.
I'm not sure Jesus himself thought this way though.  Jesus never claimed to be a Christ, nor did he ever claim to be divine.  I honestly don't think he would have considered a good Jew (leave the pharisees and scribes out of it for now) as being an idolater. 
3  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Yesterday at 10:47 AM
I can mess with you all day about this, you know...
Yes, you can if you chose.  I bet I can go out on the street in town and in 15 seconds find a person that never before heard the word herpetologist.  You could be right that they don't exist at all, for I feel certain they don't exist for most of the population.  It could just be a scam perpetrated by the folks at google. :)
4  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Yesterday at 10:34 AM
You are suddenly pulling out hidden (both everyday and mystical) meanings...
Now that is the essence of presupposition.
5  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Yesterday at 10:27 AM
I'm a skeptic, Bill.  How can I be sure that you are a reliable witness or if the herpetologist really wanted to believe you because he was your friend.  I just can't believe something unless I see it with my own eyes.  2nd and 3rd hand testimonies usually are not reliable, you know.  Evil

Just messing with you a bit.
No, that's alright.  Of course you should be skeptical, as was the herpetologist at first.  And I could show you the pictures of the frog, but would they convince you?  Unless you have that specific expertise you are both entitled and expected to continue your skepticism.  However, in this case your getting a fist hand eyewitness account, and you could, if it was important enough to you, take the pictures to a herpetologist you trust and ask him to verify.

Just saying.
6  Practice Break / Religion / Re: Atheism: Good or Bad? (non-PP) on: Yesterday at 08:36 AM
Are you asking me?

I'm not too sure what 'intelligence' exactly is, and I'm fairly sure humans don't know how to measure it.

Back in university I kept hearing that IQ tests were accurate and that it was impossible to cheat them.  I put that hypotheses to a test.  I got copies of dozens of IQ tests and studied them.  It was fairly easy to recognize the kinds of things they tested for.  Pattern recognition, logic, comparison, math skills, etc.  These were all approached in similar ways too.  I found it fairly easy to bone up on these things.  I went to the Mensa club on campus and told them I wanted to take their test. I scored 186.  They told me that that put me in a category of 1 in 26 million.  That I was quite possibly the smartest person in all of Canada.  I told them I had studied for the test, they told me that would not have made any difference.  Well, I am not the smartest man in Canada.  It was such a ridiculous suggestion I refused their invite to be a member of the club.  I recently did another test and scored 167 - 1/70,000.  Did I get dumber over the intervening years or did my IQ test skills atrophy?  I certainly don't have an 'IQ' of 167 and I don't think I even come close to being a genius (140).

So, what is 'intelligence' by your definition?
7  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Yesterday at 08:19 AM
If you were a disciple and personally witnessed Jesus, would that have changed your perspective from what you have today?
For me?  Of course.  However,  personal experience and following the 2nd or 3rd hand account of an unverified eyewitness are two very distinct things.  Would I expect someone to believe me if I retold the stories and was unable to verify them? Probably not.

Time for a little tale...

I was once eyewitness to a previously unheard of thing.  I once found a wood frog in the southern Everglades.  I related the story to a herpetologist I've known for a very long time (since university).  He told me I was dreaming.  I had obviously mistakenly identified another species. Probably the brown phase of the common green frog.  Lucky for me I took several pictures of it.  I gave him the pictures and the story and now he and I are accredited with the furthest south incident of a wood frog.

The moral of the story?  The pictures amounted to additional hard evidence outside my eyewitness account.  Evidence that verified my story.  Am I plssed he gets to take the credit too?  No, as he's the expert that confirmed my evidence.

See how all that works?
8  Creation and Performance / Performance / Re: The professional trombonist. on: Yesterday at 06:46 AM
OK, I will bite!!  Playing devils advocate - how many of the folks that replied to this thread play regularly with bands like this?
I did back in my university days (80-84).  Played with a couple of R&B/funk bands around the Toronto and area bar scene for spending money.  Chicago, Lighthouse, Tower of Power ... that sort of stuff (but not those bands!).  Not terribly interesting or difficult music to play, but it paid money.
9  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Yesterday at 06:30 AM

A very interesting perspective on perspective.
10  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Yesterday at 06:26 AM
The other option would be: Jesus wan't concerned, because He could contain any issue that would ever come up. There are no circumstances that He can't control, whether it's rough waters of the sea, or the feeding of the people.
I see your point Dusty.  However, Jesus acted correctly under the circumstances.  It's the depicted actions/reactions of the disciples that has me shaking my head.
11  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Yesterday at 05:42 AM
I guess your thinking that the disciples should have had enough food on hand in case they needed to feed 5000 people, is that right?
Not quite.  Not to be unkind, but that kind of reasoning on my team in professional life would have gotten a reprimand at the least.  However, I think coming up with a contingency plan based on past experience might have been a good idea.  Such as sitting down with Jesus and figuring something out.  Or does such simple planning confound the normal follower of Jesus?
Really?  How do you get to that conclusion? How likely would it be for an author not to notice such an obvious mistake if he was just making it up.  It seems to me that writing down something like with such an obvious problems is an indication that he wrote down what happened rather than what he thought would be believable.
Well, I guess there is two options to choose from.  1)Jesus and his troop were unable to conjure up the concept that they may be faced with this situation more than once and be prepare for it.  Or 2)There were two authors/editors at work.

I think Matthew had a good reason for including 2 feeding miracles that a substantially the same.  There was a significant difference: the first feeding was in Israel the second was in Gentile territory.  This is Jesus' way of showing that he was going to 'feed' the Gentiles in the same way as the Jew's.
It's not the feeding I'm objecting to.  It is the fact that the disciples seem to have been taken completely by surprise with the situation and seemed to have no clue as to how to resolve it.  It would have been more consistent if it had gone something like "My Lord, we have many people to feed an have yet again only a few loaves and fishes.  Could you help as you did before?"

And maybe we're both just showing our cognitive biases.
Noting wrong with that.  Without different cognitive biases there would be no discussion.
12  Practice Break / Religion / Re: God on: Sep 22, 2017, 07:09PM
I don't think a human could type 1 TB in his/her life time.
No, I agree.  It seems like a ridiculous figure from all perspectives.
13  Practice Break / Religion / Re: God on: Sep 22, 2017, 01:55PM
I read the first section what was available of "Jesus and the eyewitnesses" to read on Amazon.  This:

What, after all, does the phrase "the historical Jesus" mean?  It is a seriously ambiguous phrase, with at least three meanings.  It could mean Jesus as he really was in his earthly life, in that sense distinguishing the earthly Jesus from the Jesus who, according to Christian faith, now lives and reigns exalted in heaven and will come to bring history to its end.

Stood out.

It's not ambiguous at all.  The historical Jesus is that which is described outside the bible.

The rest of that statement above seems reasonable until he makes it impossible to explain by adding:

However, the full reality of Jesus as he historically was is not, of course, accessible to us.  The world itself could not contain the books that would be needed to record even all that was empirically observable about Jesus, as the closing verse of the Gospel of John puts it.

And as reference - John 21:25 But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

Seriously?  What does this even mean?  I Jesus lived 34 years and someone recorded everything he did on a milli-second by milli-second basis, including taking note of very heartbeat, breath and flick of his eyelids, to the tune of 100 words for each milli-second it would not fill a 1TB disk drive.

I hate to say it John, but this is where works like this just fall flat on their faces.

He goes on to describe another two possible ways of defining the 'historical Jesus' but swats each down with a fairly long winded claim that Jesus would be such that he would not be describable anywhere else but in the bible and that description must be free of too much scrutiny.

In other words, there is no 'historical Jesus'.

Anyway, I'll try to slug my way through that 'freebie' chapter, but the first section has given me little encouragement.

14  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Sep 22, 2017, 12:54PM
Let me take shot at explaining the Temple Tax thing.

I can only assume Peter's answer of 'Yes' meant that Jesus pays the tax, even though the question was posed in the negative, otherwise the rest of the story seems inconsistent.

Jesus establishes with Simon that since they are children of God, they should not be taxed for entering their father's house (the temple).  Just as a king's children would not pay tax to the king.  He then relents so as not to give offense and tells Simon to undergo a strange ritual to get money to pay.  All easy to understand.

The fish makes it very odd though.  Why must Simon go fishing to find a shekel? And is a shekel worth 4 drachma?  What is the significance of referring to Peter as both Peter and Simon in the same passage?

I guess I failed....

This also caught my eye - He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Sounds like Yoda talking to young Skywalker.
15  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Sep 22, 2017, 12:38PM
6) To my surprise, I'm finding this fairly unsatisfying at the moment. There are way too many episodes that cannot be taken at face value, and so I am mostly left with a general feeling of mistrust for the text. And bewilderment at those so invested in regarding it as literal truth.
16  Practice Break / Religion / Re: God on: Sep 22, 2017, 12:35PM
Personally, I'm always suspicious of conspiracy theory prone authors, but maybe that's just a presupposition of mine. :)
I'm with you on this John.  That is one aspect of "How Jesus Became Christian" that I am wary of.  If, as I go through this text, the conspiracy aspect is too heavily used and/or not proven beyond reasonable doubt, I'll end up moving on.
17  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Sep 22, 2017, 12:31PM
This seems a lack of consistency to me.
Your letting you presuppositions (Johns definition) show here Dave.
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: New member with a question about a Shires Bass Trom on: Sep 22, 2017, 12:28PM
Minor profile differences aside, a Denis Wick 4AL is pretty much the same as a Bach 4G (I have both here).

A 4AL might work okay on an old G bass, but would not get the best out of a big modern bass like the Edwards.  However, it might still be good for playing older brass band music where something like an old G bass was assumed.

A 3G, 2G or 1.5G would be better mouthpieces on the small side for a modern bass.
19  Practice Break / Purely Politics / Re: Our unbalanced POTUS on: Sep 22, 2017, 12:08PM
Michigwangi neukdari.

I don't speak Korean, but that just sounds like an apt description of Trumpuss.  Especially if spoken in venomous way.
20  Practice Break / Religion / Re: TTF "Read Da Book": The Christian Bible on: Sep 22, 2017, 12:01PM
Part of your problem may be that you have made assumptions as to what "well written, clear of understanding, free of contradiction and consistent" must be and it looks to me that your definitions are so narrow that even your own writings here on this forum wouldn't even pass muster.  Evil
Well, I'll never claim to be a good writer.  Not my forte.  However, I can give any number of examples of texts of all sorts, that do pass muster for me.  I think 'free of contradiction' and 'consistent' have pretty cut and dried definitions.  'Well written' and 'clear of understanding' might be more subjective, but I think most of us can agree on such terms if we try.
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