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1092485 Posts in 72165 Topics- by 19436 Members - Latest Member: Pablo3A
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1  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS: Bach 42b 1978 Corporation horn on: Jan 10, 2018, 09:56AM
Yeah, 42b's are pretty popular.

I can't offer much help on using Imgur. See the error below; If the pics haven't been uploaded yet, maybe the permissions are wrong and the public isn't allowed to view them.
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Welcome to ashughart50wr's profile!
Unfortunately, there's nothing to see here.
2  Practice Break / Polls / Re: Naming Trombones on: Jan 10, 2018, 09:01AM
Mine;
  • Earbreaker
  • Dragonbreath
  • Peacebreaker
  • Silencereaper
&
  • Mercy, Terror of Eternal Sorrow

3  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS: Bach 42b 1978 Corporation horn on: Jan 08, 2018, 02:36PM
Just an FYI, that link to the pictures doesn't work.
4  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Re: Brass Quintet recordings without Trombone? on: Jan 06, 2018, 08:24PM
This is *very* cool! I never would have thought to search for music like that, which comes with a CD! Exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks!
5  Teaching & Learning / Practice Room / Brass Quintet recordings without Trombone? on: Jan 06, 2018, 01:18PM
I love brass quintet and recently started one, but we can't get together to practice all that often. I'd like to play more and was curious if anyone has heard of brass quintet recordings sans the trombone part?
6  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS: Gold Rim Bach 6 1/2AL - Newly Plated on: Dec 29, 2017, 02:19PM
Brilliant insight! Thanks for finding out.
7  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Dec 29, 2017, 01:51PM
This is great info! Thanks for asking them.
8  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS: Gold Rim Bach 6 1/2AL - Newly Plated on: Dec 28, 2017, 09:30AM
Please keep us posted as to the endurance of the plating...I'm still waiting for mine from Mouth piece express...I paid $130 for the whole shooting match, insurance, shipping, tax, with a new mouth piece....So your buyer got a good deal...

Nanook

For certain, will do! I've really enjoyed using mine and am completely sold on the gold rim. Fingers crossed it lasts a while.

If you happen to find out how many microinches of gold MPE uses in their plating, let us know. This seems to be the best guarded secret in the biz.
9  Classified Advertisements / Classified Advertisements / Re: FS: Gold Rim Bach 6 1/2AL - Newly Plated on: Dec 27, 2017, 07:41PM
SOLD
10  Town Hall / Notices from TTF Members / Re: My album A Fall from Light to Dark has finally officially been released!! on: Dec 20, 2017, 12:57PM
Brilliant! The demo tracks are excellent. It shows the incredible diversity and range the trombone has. The fact that a single individual is producing this range is amazing!

I bought it and am downloading the uncompressed album, now.
11  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bach Corp Era: <1965? on: Dec 17, 2017, 10:29PM
I was curious and had to check my Bach horns. My ~'77 36B has "CORPORATION" in the stamp. My other three 36B's (~84, ~87 & ~87) and my 42B (~84) are all without. I'd never looked closely at those stamps before!

Yeah, I don't believe my '77 36B plays/sounds better than my other 36's. *Maybe* some subtle difference, but a different mouthpiece would have far more impact on the tone than the horn itself.
12  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Re: Bach Corp Era: <1965? on: Dec 17, 2017, 10:06PM
Ah! Wonderful insight. Thank you both for the info, that makes sense.
13  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Instruments / Bach Corp Era: <1965? on: Dec 17, 2017, 08:21AM
I see the term "Bach corp. era horn" being used, but recall seeing horns made in the 70's being referred to in this way.

Shouldn't a "Bach corporation era" anything simply be pre-selmer, which began in 1965?
14  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: How to tell if a mouthpiece is solid silver? on: Dec 15, 2017, 03:37PM
Just for curiosity, I had to do some rough calculation on a solid silver MP. To tell if you have one, a solid silver should weigh about 1.2x as much as brass...

Assume a 5.6 oz brass trombone mouthpiece. That = 1.15 cubic inches of material. (Brass = 4.86 ounces per CI.)

1.15 cubic inches of silver = 6.36 troy ounces.
A solid silver mouthpiece would have ~$120 melt value.

1.15 cubic inches of gold = 11.68 ounces (that's a HEAVY mouthpiece!).
<~$15,000 in raw material.
15  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Dec 14, 2017, 08:25AM
My experience is there isn't any difference in sound. Gold can be more slippery but I dont notice much difference in feel either. It looks cool but gold or silver is the same for me. For others it might be different?


Good insight.

My 2nd day on the new gold rim was intense. Individual rehearsal for quintet and then I recorded a swing song full out for 90 minutes, for another band. A lot of playing. The gold is smooth and slippery and feels soft (to me) compared to silver. I played strong the entire time.

All that said... this could be a matter of those who are sensitive to silver feel a rough and less comfortable mouthpiece. My skin is sensitive to everything, So I think the theory is plausible.

For an average-skin player, I wouldn't spend a bunch of extra money on gold. But if you know that you have sensitive skin, the gold might be worth a try.

After two days playing on gold, I'm sold. But I know that not everyone is going to notice a different.
16  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:05AM
Back in my circuit board days we made boards for Western Electric.  They had a rather strict standard: 100 microinches of gold over 300 microinches of nickel on all gold fingers.  Western Electric used to require their product to last 40 years in rough service.

Later customers would use 25 microinches of "hard gold" (primarily gold with a trace of nickel or cobalt).  The nickel requirement was reduced to 100 and later 50 microinches.

Surface mount technology requires the gold to last through one soldering cycle (it dissolves into the connection) and thus you can get away with 10 microinches or even less.

Hewlett-Packard, in their glory days, used to like the circuit boards to look expensive and we had to plate 5 millionths of gold on all the circuitry.  Don't know if it did anything for life, but the boards sure looked spiffy.

When I worked at the lab I never had an opportunity to measure gold thickness on a Wick mouthpiece, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the range of 25-50 microinches.  They used to have a peeling problem probably because they didn't use proper plating techniques (barrier layer, strike, then full plate).

Nice! There so much assumed about plating, gold in particular. Hearing real-world examples in practice is neat! I really want to know what thickness the factory gold mouthpieces are. A new project!

The Trombone forum deserves to know exactly how thick the gold is on factory plated mouthpieces. Step one, obtain a factory plated MP.
17  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:00AM
"We offer 24k plating" sounds like you have to ask for it.

Do you KNOW that's what you got?

Well, as I mentioned, that was the first thing we discussed when I went in. These must be done in 24k. Reply; Yes, that's how we do all mouthpieces.

That said, anytime you pay for a service, there has to be some level of trust. When you change your oil and ask for a synthetic, do you test the oil to make sure they used synthetic, or do you trust that they did what you asked?

I believe pawn shops have a test that can tell the purity of a gold, but I think it's slightly destructive. It would be interesting to do...
18  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Dec 13, 2017, 09:54AM
Well I have more than an opinion, I've been in the business a long time and I've already been through this.
For clarity, the number you're talking about is expressed several different ways, and the durability depends on what else is added to the gold.

20 millionths
.000020 of an inch
20 micro-inches
.5 micron

That thickness is the minimum that can legally be called Gold Plate.

The opinion I do have is that for mouthpieces, gold should be 24k with nothing added because of allergy issues. Chances are the plating you're getting isn't 24k.


Ah! It sounds like some assumptions are being made. The first thing this company states on their gold plating services is "We offer 24k plating". That was the first thing I discussed with them. So these are 24k --which not every shop can do, from what I understand.

7 micro-inches is the minimum to be called electroplate and 20 is the minimum to be called plated. Doing some research, is seems that 20 is a common thickness for gold that will be exposed to repeated wear.

I can have them plate as thick as I ask. It's not much more expensive to go thicker. I'm just curious if you have any data on how thick the gold is on "factory" mouthpieces, or by other reputable mouthpiece platers. It seems to be a bit of a guarded secret. Likely because most local places try to get away with the jewelry plating standard of 7 micro-inches.

We'll see how well 20 micro-inches wear. I've heard that the 3 micro-inch gold washes some companies use when "plating" mouthpieces, will wear off after a month or two. 7 micro-inches I bet is what most companies will use. These at 20 I suspect will fare very well. But time will tell.
19  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:41AM
Please keep us posted...This could be a good resource for members in the future...

Nanook

For sure. I played on one last night for quintet. It feels soft & smooth compared to my old silver. I got through a long and strenuous rehearsal feeling good. It would be tough to quantify any endurance increase. But I will say that my lips recovered more quickly afterwards. I didn't have the same irritated chapped feeling I always have after a long session. Plus it looks really nice.
20  Horns, Gear, and Equipment / Mouthpieces / Re: gold rim on: Dec 13, 2017, 06:41AM
I predict it won't last very long at all.  That amount is fine for jewelry but nowhere near enough for something like a mouthpiece that sees daily use and wear.

Not even close.

If you have some data it would be great, otherwise it sounds like opinion? Any thickness can be specified for plating. In talking to the professionals, there are some mouthpiece rims washed at 3 millionths, most are likely plated at 7 millionths. The 20 millionths they suggested should last the life of the player. (20 millionths is considered thick enough to last a lifetime of daily use on watch.)

All that said, if we can learn that most rims are plated at a different thickness, that's what I'll go with. But I understand that anything over 20 millionths begins to noticeably change the dimensions of a part.
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