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Author Topic: The dumbest political protest?  (Read 1360 times)
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Ellrod

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« on: Jun 17, 2017, 04:22AM »

From a Vox story:

Two protesters interrupted the Public Theater’s Shakespeare in the Park performance of Julius Caesar on Friday night, with one of them crashing the stage to yell, “Stop the normalization of political violence against the right! This is unacceptable!"

The production, which features a Donald Trump-esque figure in its title role, has been a target of right-wing outrage since before its official opening on June 12. Because the 400-year-old play sees Julius Caesar assassinated by members of the Roman Senate — and thus, in this production, it’s the Trump-esque figure who meets an untimely demise — the Public Theater’s staging has drawn condemnation from news outlets such as Breitbart and Fox News and lost the support of two corporate sponsors as a result.
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Eyedoc
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 17, 2017, 09:22AM »

Which part is dumb, the stabbing of Trump or the call to stop promoting violence?
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 17, 2017, 10:00AM »

Which part is dumb, the stabbing of Trump or the call to stop promoting violence?

Well, the more obvious is the actual protest rather than the play, even ignoring Ellrod's (and Vox's) politics.
 
It's the professional victimhood of the far right. They tend to weep and wail and gnash their teeth when they stop getting their way all the time--when the games aren't all played by all their special rules all the time. It's throwing tantrums over the loss of privilege with no remotely balanced sense of social equity.
 
Of course we get another form of problematic extremism from the far left, but it has a very different character. It's generally trying to go much too far to make sure all who want to play get to play all the games even if they have to amend all the rules so they can.
 
I think the latter mindset is far more social and far more altruistic and far healthier than the former, which is too often just pure ugliness and nastiness. It's good thing both are extremes.
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 17, 2017, 10:56AM »

It seems to me that if you think the play is about promoting violence, you probably failed Grade 9 English.
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 17, 2017, 12:11PM »


Of course we get another form of problematic extremism from the far left, but it has a very different character. It's generally trying to go much too far to make sure all who want to play get to play all the games even if they have to amend all the rules so they can.
 

-Trump-hating die hard Bernie supporter opens fire on congressional baseball practice, critically injuring two. He had a hit list of prominent conservative politicians he planned on killing.

-Democrats call for assassination of Trump/Pence, raping of Melania, publicly make fun of Trump's 11 year old son for "having autism" (seriously?)

-Antifa thugs attempt to shut down any and all dissenting speech, engage in violent protest and have attempted to kill right wingers just for their beliefs.

We are experiencing the dehumanizations of the right, and the attempted normalization of violence against them. It's painfully obvious that leftist terrorism is the problem here. Give me a break

-------------------------------

Some more citations for your enjoyment:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/14/liberal-wapo-analysis-writer-budding-author-deletes-heinous-tweet-about-shooting/

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Protester-Pleads-Guilty-to-Discussing-Inaugural-Ball-Plot-415715103.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/suspicious-white-powder-found-trump-tower-manhattan-article-1.2618247
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jbayes
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 17, 2017, 12:40PM »

"-Trump-hating die hard Bernie supporter opens fire on congressional baseball practice, critically injuring two. He had a hit list of prominent conservative politicians he planned on killing.

-Democrats call for assassination of Trump/Pence, raping of Melania, publicly make fun of Trump's 11 year old son for "having autism" (seriously?)

-Antifa thugs attempt to shut down any and all dissenting speech, engage in violent protest and have attempted to kill right wingers just for their beliefs.

We are experiencing the dehumanizations of the right, and the attempted normalization of violence against them. It's painfully obvious that leftist terrorism is the problem here. Give me a break"

Mr. 420: I know of no Democrat that has called for any assassination-this attempt was by a nut-job extremist. To say Democrats advocate that is a completely ridiculous assumption, one that no person with an IQ above three would agree with.

This nation is experiencing an upsurge of violence that is frightening to behold. The current president potus has certainly contributed to that, and any honest person will agree to that. I hold out the feeble hope that he may begin to address the societal division we see today, but I won't hold my breath.
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 17, 2017, 01:31PM »



Quote
-Democrats call for assassination of Trump/Pence, raping of Melania, publicly make fun of Trump's 11 year old son for "having autism" (seriously?)

Can you name any Democratic officials who have done this? 

I can show you a Republican official who has called for his opponents to be killed and who has eagerly ridiculed the disabled.

(Hint: He's President of the United States at the  moment)






Quote
-Antifa thugs

AKA college students who didn't want their college promoting a white supremacist.


Quote
We are experiencing the dehumanizations of the right, and the attempted normalization of violence against them.

Conservative snowflakes want to dish out the abuse but call "no fair!" when the hatred they've been inciting comes back at them.

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« Reply #7 on: Jun 17, 2017, 01:42PM »

Gee, I hate the ideal of any Trump-haters suggesting violence against Melania.  She's the only member of the Trump-lump I like.  She's also the honorary president of the official Trump-hater's club.
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 17, 2017, 01:55PM »

-Trump-hating die hard Bernie supporter opens fire on congressional baseball practice, critically injuring two. He had a hit list of prominent conservative politicians he planned on killing.
That is striking if accurate! It's always been the radical far right types who commit the real violence.
 
-Democrats call for assassination of Trump/Pence, raping of Melania, publicly make fun of Trump's 11 year old son for "having autism" (seriously?)
Is this the deplorability that is virtually any comment section on the Interweb? If so, yeah ... people online tend to really suck, or rather the louder ones tend to at least. It's usually thought to be the anonymity, and I expect that's a major factor, but whatever releases these personal demons online reveals some pretty serious darkness in a whole lot of people, regardless. If it worked to purge that nastiness that would be great, but that's definitely not how it works, unfortunately.
 
-Antifa thugs attempt to shut down any and all dissenting speech, engage in violent protest and have attempted to kill right wingers just for their beliefs.
Sounds like what a far right winger tends to see when someone openly disagrees with him. With no reference that's a pretty fair bet as to what "thugs [attempting] to shut down any and all dissenting speech, [engaging] in violent protest and have attempted to kill right wingers just for their beliefs" actually describes. Although the "attempted to kill" thing suggests another level--like a right wing target of intensely traumatic disagreement decided to get physical and got more than he bargained for from his presumed pacifist target, or something like that. But given the fruits of the success of Faux Nuze and the far right hate jockeys on the radio (etc), it's becoming more and more their world, so the normal parameters of violent inclinations and behaviors do seem to be expanding to the point where they're getting to the left on the extremist spectrum. It's a disheartening development for sure.
 
We are experiencing the dehumanizations of the right, and the attempted normalization of violence against them. It's painfully obvious that leftist terrorism is the problem here. Give me a break
It's true that the deplorability has both been amped up and has started to show in a degree on the left that suggests even liberal extremists might get violent--not very freakin' likely get anywhere remotely near anything resembling something that could potentially be mistaken for starting to catch up with the history of far right violence any time soon of course, but the fact they're at this place is pretty striking. Agreed.
 
Some more citations for your enjoyment
At least you found one from a source that has plenty of benefit of the doubt remaining.
 
1: Calling Steve Scalise "David Duke without baggage" is tasteless and ugly, particularly while his condition is sketchy, absolutely. Not okay, and it would be condemned by the left as well as the right (though not as shrill I'm sure), just as Kathy Griffin's dumbarse stunt resulted in unanimous condemnation from all over the political spectrum, including the left. I'm not sure you get the same kind of agreement on that sort of thing from anywhere near as much of the right. In any case ... does the tasteless and ugly act of calling Steve Scalise "David Duke without baggage" reach the level of violence, even while he's still in serious condition? Sorry. Nope. It warrants a similar reaction to that of the Kathy Griffin nonsense though--at least in terms of unanimous rebuke.
 
2: That could certainly have turned into violence if it were actual and were carried out, but ... well, in that linked story we have a serious enough misdemeanor that it would take 48 hours of community service to be expunged, and then there's this:
     - "Attorney Shan Wu says Charney didn't have any acid and 'had not intended to injure anyone in any way.'"
     - "Protest leaders said the group knew it had been infiltrated and the conversation was a ruse."
 
3: Stupid and criminally irresponsible, absolutely. Violent though? If the powder didn't turn out to be non-toxic, yeah, in a very distant and passive way (which isn't excusing it or diminishing it by any means--it would just be a different form of violence with different psychological implications--still violent and seriously ugly and all that though). Since the powder turned out to be non-toxic it's "just" criminal stupidity and malice though. Still far from pretty, and arguably violent but not clearly so.
 
Violence? ... arguably kinda-sorta almost, not so much. Terrorism!? ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYVO5bUFww0
 
Calling these situations violent (reminder note: it's about the tweet, not the shooting) is just standard issue right wing professional victimhood (they tend to be very fragile--can often hardly bear up and manage to remain standing under the oppressive trauma of strong disagreement). But calling them terrorism is ... well, that link I just posted there covers it I think. Not even most radical right wingers are that fragile. Maybe that's also a newly developing complication though. They do seem to envy that about fundamentalist Islam.
 
These are messed up and ugly cases--not arguing against that, but the second one may be a ruse by some far right wing type to make simple knuckleheadedness look a lot meaner, and in any case at worst we have a pretty pitiful entry into the world of violence if liberals want to make anywhere near the mark that's been made by radical right wingers.
 
One thing we all need to do in these cases though, is to recognize and accept that these kinds of acts don't reflect any but the radical extremes, regardless. Sometimes people may speak or write (or tweet) in such an irresponsible manner as to be criminal, at least arguably, and incite some of these disturbed or troubled or just flat out nasty types to actually act violently, but you and I are not part or parcel to any of that, so we should be able to discuss this knuckleheaded nonsense without ever even coming close to personal recrimination between us, or aimed at anyone not part of this violent lunatic fringe. the vast majority of us are far better than that, and we should also remember that some, very likely most of the violent types are mentally irregular in some clinically significant sense (though maybe not according to the DSM or psychological pros, which to me suggests a problem with the field, not the veracity of their contrary opinions).
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 17, 2017, 02:45PM »

-Trump-hating die hard Bernie supporter opens fire on congressional baseball practice, critically injuring two. He had a hit list of prominent conservative politicians he planned on killing.

-Democrats call for assassination of Trump/Pence, raping of Melania, publicly make fun of Trump's 11 year old son for "having autism" (seriously?)

-Antifa thugs attempt to shut down any and all dissenting speech, engage in violent protest and have attempted to kill right wingers just for their beliefs.

We are experiencing the dehumanizations of the right, and the attempted normalization of violence against them. It's painfully obvious that leftist terrorism is the problem here. Give me a break

-------------------------------

Some more citations for your enjoyment:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/14/liberal-wapo-analysis-writer-budding-author-deletes-heinous-tweet-about-shooting/

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Protester-Pleads-Guilty-to-Discussing-Inaugural-Ball-Plot-415715103.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/suspicious-white-powder-found-trump-tower-manhattan-article-1.2618247


No, give us a break. Is your memory so bad that you have already forgotten the dehumanizing behavior of the hard core right wing folks during Obama's terms? He was hung in effigy, Calls were made to kill him (in not so veiled ways). Trump himself said that if Hillary were elected that the second amendment folks could take care of her.

Hillary targets were sold at gun ranges.

Don't even begin to pretend that the right is not guilty of this crap.

I am not saying everyone who is conservative is guilty of this hateful rhetoric. There are bad elements everywhere...on both sides of the aisle. But imo it is from unbalanced douche bags, not civilized human beings.

So please don't lay the shooting at Bernie's feet. That is horse **** and you know it.

Violent and disruptive actions are deplorable no matter who does it.
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2017, 06:53PM by slide advantage » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 17, 2017, 06:27PM »

Man, I'm old enough to remember one of Trumps kids (Eric?) going on Hannity last week saying that democrats aren't even people,

Totally the left's fault.
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 19, 2017, 03:02PM »

One need only do a search on something like "Shakespeare play kills Obama" to find coverage of previous versions of "Julius Caesar" and other productions that killed an "Obama" with eager corporate sponsorship (including by the same companies currently involved) and without any of the umbrage now being feigned by the right-wing press.

Why am I not surprised?
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« Reply #12 on: Jun 19, 2017, 03:12PM »

Why am I not surprised?

Because your intracranial biomass is sufficiently oxygenated and perfused, and you're not desperately trying to believe some other contrary buelshite.
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« Reply #13 on: Jun 19, 2017, 04:05PM »

Guardian:

American theaters bearing William Shakespeare’s name have reported a surge of abusive messages from members of the public, following rightwing protests over a New York production of Julius Caesar in which the doomed title character was dressed to look like Donald Trump.
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 19, 2017, 04:55PM »

Guardian:
 
American theaters bearing William Shakespeare’s name have reported a surge of abusive messages from members of the public, following rightwing protests over a New York production of Julius Caesar in which the doomed title character was dressed to look like Donald Trump.

Another sheep stampede! Sounds about right ... eh?
 
Here's what always starts them.
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« Reply #15 on: Jun 20, 2017, 06:59AM »

"-Trump-hating die hard Bernie supporter opens fire on congressional baseball practice, critically injuring two. He had a hit list of prominent conservative politicians he planned on killing.

-Democrats call for assassination of Trump/Pence, raping of Melania, publicly make fun of Trump's 11 year old son for "having autism" (seriously?)

-Antifa thugs attempt to shut down any and all dissenting speech, engage in violent protest and have attempted to kill right wingers just for their beliefs.

We are experiencing the dehumanizations of the right, and the attempted normalization of violence against them. It's painfully obvious that leftist terrorism is the problem here. Give me a break"

Mr. 420: I know of no Democrat that has called for any assassination-this attempt was by a nut-job extremist. To say Democrats advocate that is a completely ridiculous assumption, one that no person with an IQ above three would agree with.

This nation is experiencing an upsurge of violence that is frightening to behold. The current president potus has certainly contributed to that, and any honest person will agree to that. I hold out the feeble hope that he may begin to address the societal division we see today, but I won't hold my breath.

jbayes... I would sympathize with you if not for the fact that the conservatives have been leading the charge on this.

In one of your examples, literally, you have a conservative who is upset because liberals aren't open minded enough to listen to their close minded rant. Basically, the conservative getting what they want to give.

And well... look at the leader of the GOP currently. A man who attacks and degenerates anyone who slightly speaks ill of him, encourages violence against protesters, wants to restrict freedom of speech and press that he doesn't like, objectifies half of the population, and attacks his own as much as he attacks his detractors.

To quote tmichael jackson:

I’m starting with the man in the mirror
I’m asking him to change his ways
And no message could have been any clearer
If you wanna make the world a better place
Take a look at yourself, and then make a change
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« Reply #16 on: Jun 22, 2017, 11:45AM »

jbayes... I would sympathize with you if not for the fact that the conservatives have been leading the charge on this.


To be clear, the quote was not from JBayes. He was quoting TRB
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« Reply #17 on: Jun 22, 2017, 11:58AM »

-Trump-hating die hard Bernie supporter opens fire on congressional baseball practice, critically injuring two. He had a hit list of prominent conservative politicians he planned on killing.

-Democrats call for assassination of Trump/Pence, raping of Melania, publicly make fun of Trump's 11 year old son for "having autism" (seriously?)

-Antifa thugs attempt to shut down any and all dissenting speech, engage in violent protest and have attempted to kill right wingers just for their beliefs.

We are experiencing the dehumanizations of the right, and the attempted normalization of violence against them. It's painfully obvious that leftist terrorism is the problem here. Give me a break

I mostly disagree with this. There are always going to be a few lunatics, and even famous people, who make over-the-top remarks and even threats. Some deranged people will lapse into violence, no matter who is president or what his politics are. If a deranged Paul Ryan supporter killed somebody, I wouldn't immediately blame Paul Ryan. It isn't 'Democrats' calling for violent acts--it's a few loudmouths, of every political stripe.

I agree that the systematic suppression of free speech by liberals on college campuses has gotten out of hand. The near blood lust that engages students persecuting any faculty member who expresses an ever-so-slightly divergent view is disgraceful and should be stopped.
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« Reply #18 on: Jun 22, 2017, 12:02PM »

It's interesting to me that the excuse for Trump's wildly inappropriate remarks and behavior was the rejection of 'political correctness'. Now that Trump's in office, the urge to break free of those bonds seems to have evaporated. Trump's supporters, and Trump himself, seem to wilt at the slightest insult or strong word.

Updating Julius Caesar to reflect current events is a longstanding practice. There have been versions where Caesar represented Obama or Hillary Clinton, and no fuss was made over it.
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« Reply #19 on: Jun 22, 2017, 12:12PM »

Using theater to parody a leader has gone on for a LONG time. 

There have been Julius Caesar performances where Caesar was Hitler, Mussolini, Tsar Nicholas II, Tsar Alexander II, King George III, King Charles I, Oliver Cromwell, and others.

Some of you may remember a parody of Shakespear's MacBeth called MacBird, where the target was Lyndon Johnson.

I agree with Piano Man that the demonstrations in the colleges against Right Wing speakers is unpardonable.  You need to hear both sides of an argument.  While I may disagree with their statements, I support the right for them to make them.  But they must similarly support the right for me to state mine.
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 22, 2017, 12:41PM »

Using theater to parody a leader has gone on for a LONG time. 

There have been Julius Caesar performances where Caesar was Hitler, Mussolini, Tsar Nicholas II, Tsar Alexander II, King George III, King Charles I, Oliver Cromwell, and others.

Some of you may remember a parody of Shakespear's MacBeth called MacBird, where the target was Lyndon Johnson.

I agree with Piano Man that the demonstrations in the colleges against Right Wing speakers is unpardonable.  You need to hear both sides of an argument.  While I may disagree with their statements, I support the right for them to make them.  But they must similarly support the right for me to state mine.

"I agree with Piano Man that the demonstrations in the colleges against Right Wing speakers is unpardonable."

Except the right to protest [right wing] speakers must be supported.

To paraphrase Monty Python's Davey Moore the highway man: This [freedom of speech] is trickier than I thought. One certainly can't defend the right to shout (or worse) somebody down.
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« Reply #21 on: Jun 22, 2017, 04:38PM »

I agree with Piano Man that the demonstrations in the colleges against Right Wing speakers is unpardonable.

"Out of hand" and "disgraceful and should be stopped", not "unpardonable".
 
I doubt he'd go that far, even just sentimentally, particularly regarding a bunch young/dumb kids who are learning to become adults and currently doing poorly, at least for the cases in question.
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« Reply #22 on: Jun 23, 2017, 07:57AM »

  But they must similarly support the right for me to state mine.

Who is suppressing your free speech?
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« Reply #23 on: Jun 23, 2017, 08:09AM »

Who is suppressing your free speech?
I believe he was talking about the students demonstrating to prevent others from speaking.  Kind of ironical.
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« Reply #24 on: Jun 23, 2017, 10:06AM »

Kind of ironical.
True, though about on the same level as a close minded speaker demanding that a crowd be open minded enough to listen to them.
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