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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, slide advantage) Who in their right mind plays a single valve bass?
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schlitzbeer
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« on: Jul 23, 2017, 06:13AM »

I’ve switched, for now, to a single valve bass bone. It works for me because I’ve already had a CT release on my left hand. For those of us that prefer it, could you expand upon your preference for it?
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hyperbolica
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« Reply #1 on: Jul 23, 2017, 07:47AM »

As long as you don't have low Cs and Bs, a single trigger is great. I play my 70h when I play 3rd part in orchestra. In big band most of the charts don't have low notes even in the 4th part, so the 70h or Holton 159 sound great, plus they are so much lighter and less expensive.
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Driving Park

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« Reply #2 on: Jul 23, 2017, 07:58AM »

I played my single 72H in big bands for about year, including on programs with lots of low Cs and Bs. It was hard work, but the classic sound was worth it. I played it in orchestras as well and it worked great for lighter rep. Now I also have a double valve 72H section that I use most of the time, but even though the valves are the only difference it sounds very different (I suspect mostly because of the added weight), so I bring both bell sections to big band shows and switch depending on the chart. They complement each other nicely.
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Dukesboneman

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« Reply #3 on: Jul 23, 2017, 10:06AM »

I`m primarily a tenor player, but I double on Bass once and a while. 2 triggers is to much up keep for me. I learned on a 72H and a single works for me
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Matt K

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« Reply #4 on: Jul 23, 2017, 10:19AM »

Your 72H with two rotors is independent?  That may have equally or perhaps slightly more to do with it than the weight itself; the benefit of single or dependent setups is that extra inch or so of that tapered tubing... in my experience at least.  A/B comparing single and dependent setups I've encountered very little difference, especially with some of the modern rotors that are out there.  Before I owned my own bass, I used my studios' Yamaha 622  (Yeo model) with the removable dependent D.  I would record myself doing passages with the F alone and then with the D. Shuffle them and see if I could hear the differnece. Generally I could not, and when I could it was because a low passage was made much easier by the second rotor. Which doesn't mean that nobody would be able to tell the difference or that it would make a difference; obviously the horn exists with the removable valve for a reason after all.

So when you compare single to dependent setups, it boils down to whether or not the sound differential and extra ease in carrying the instrument is worth the tradeoff of decreased technical facility in the lower registers. Obviously if you don't play that low on a particular gig, then the answer is probably yes.  

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Catastrophone

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« Reply #5 on: Jul 23, 2017, 11:16AM »

I like playing my 72H but only when I'm absolutely sure I won't need two valves.

Many years ago I played for a short tour which involved Schumann 3, a Beethoven overture and a newly commissioned euphonium concerto. I turned up with the 70H I owned at the time and had a week of misery. The concerto had many exposed fast bass bone passages running up from and down to the pedals via low C and B. Lesson learned! A single is great most of the time, but when you need a double you really need it.
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Ellrod

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« Reply #6 on: Jul 23, 2017, 01:16PM »

I had a lovely old Bach 50 that I loved playing. I got more compliments with that horn than any other.

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savio

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« Reply #7 on: Jul 23, 2017, 11:22PM »

 I play single trigger bass trombone because i have some very nice conn 60h and 70h trombones. I can't explain why so much. I just like the feel and sound when I play them. And they fit all environment from bands, big bands and the few orchestras I sometimes play in. The C and B? They can be played if i pull out the trigger tuning. Not easy but so fare nobody have complained. I also have a double trigger if i really need it, in fact most things goes ok with single. If I am in my right mind? Certainly can be discussed :D

Leif
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Edward_Solomon
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« Reply #8 on: Jul 24, 2017, 12:53AM »

I play valveless, single and double valve bass trombones. Straight F and G bass trombones, G/D and B flat/F bass trombones, and straight B flat tenor trombones (to play third trombone parts).
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« Reply #9 on: Jul 24, 2017, 02:45AM »

Well, I think the question about my mind should be judged by my collegues.
I played many double valve horns both dependant and independant. My first singel valve was the Earl Williams 10 that I played in the early 70th. I learned to love singel basses then.
Currently I own and play Bach 46, Holton 183 Yamaha 322 and Kanstul 1662, the last mentioned is a doulbe valve depndant.
The weight is one thing, long hours is taxing on the body though the Kanstul 16162 is lighter then many double horns. The sound, well, a heavy horn makes your body tense in the long run, and that may show in your sound. About indedies, they do sound different, you may like that or not, I don´t.
About low Cs and Bs, I have no problem with "fake" tones, low C in trigger 2 low B in trigger 3.
Is it diffecult? Na. If you play those tones in just the mpc you can do it on the horn.
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« Reply #10 on: Jul 24, 2017, 04:34AM »

Doug Yeo has written and spoke at length about this.

In Defense of the Single Valve Bass Trombone, Douglas Yeo. International Trombone Association Journal, Volume XII, No. 3, July 1984. pp. 20-23.

https://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/faq_text/valves.html


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Michael Lawson
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« Reply #11 on: Jul 24, 2017, 05:14AM »

My bass is a double valve dependent Bass Bb/F/Eb, but I must admit the times I use the Eb valve are few and far between.  I could see me getting by just fine on a Single valve bass in most cases. 
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #12 on: Jul 24, 2017, 05:29AM »

I know this has been discussed on other threads, but in light of the direction this thread seems to be going, this question:

A King 4B or a King 5B?

Premise: playing essentially non-soloing bass trombone parts in a big band and/or amateur symphonic setting.

...Geezer
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« Reply #13 on: Jul 24, 2017, 05:48AM »


A King 4B or a King 5B?

Premise: playing essentially non-soloing bass trombone parts in a big band and/or amateur symphonic setting.

...Geezer

Either is okay, the 5B/Symphony is possibly a bit better (due to the larger bell throat). As to the non-soloing premise, I'm not sure about that. Bart Varsalona played with Kenton on a King Symphony and did his share of soloing.

When I did the Stravinsky *Octet for Winds* about 10 years ago I would have used a Symphony if I'd had one available.

 
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #14 on: Jul 24, 2017, 05:57AM »

Either is okay, the 5B/Symphony is possibly a bit better (due to the larger bell throat). As to the non-soloing premise, I'm not sure about that. Bart Varsalona played with Kenton on a King Symphony and did his share of soloing.

When I did the Stravinsky *Octet for Winds* about 10 years ago I would have used a Symphony if I'd had one available.


Thank you. I'm thinking 5B as well. I mean, if I want to go single-trigger bass, then I may as well go big-bell bass. I am 99% sure I would not have any meaningful solos in an amateur symphony on either 3rd or 4th in my next-of-the-woods, especially as a noob.  And as far as big band; concert, swing and/or dance is concerned, my 88H would work very nicely, depending upon how I was seated and for any little solo I might catch.

...Geezer
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Matt K

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« Reply #15 on: Jul 24, 2017, 06:15AM »

I'd lean towards a 6B if you have the ability. The weight isn't that much bigger and the sound is definitely more bass. Even for swing stuff... I had a 9" bell on my Shires and the Duo Gravis just works better in every circumstance for bass parts than it did.You could swap out the valve for any single valve pretty easily though if you really wanted a single valve 6B too for what its worth.
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What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #16 on: Jul 24, 2017, 06:37AM »

I'd lean towards a 6B if you have the ability. The weight isn't that much bigger and the sound is definitely more bass. Even for swing stuff... I had a 9" bell on my Shires and the Duo Gravis just works better in every circumstance for bass parts than it did.You could swap out the valve for any single valve pretty easily though if you really wanted a single valve 6B too for what its worth.

I don't doubt you at all. But I'm drawing the line at a single-trigger bass. For my use, it wouldn't be worth the extra money for more than that. I have sat beside guys playing bass on everything from a King 2B with a trigger(!) to a double-trigger bass. Even the little King met the minimum standard in the groups I hang with, although I do admit the double-trigger bass was mighty impressive. But again, in the groups with which I associate, I know I could do well enough with either my 88H or my 3B/F with a Bach 5G mpc in either. But for the heck of it and not much more than say, a $1,000 - I think it would be fun and I emphasize fun - and nothing more than that - to have a larger horn. Clearly not a necessity or I would just drive down the road to another group where it didn't matter.

Someone possibly a lot younger and with much higher expectations? That's a different story completely.

...Geezer   
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Driving Park

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« Reply #17 on: Jul 24, 2017, 06:46AM »

Your 72H with two rotors is independent?  That may have equally or perhaps slightly more to do with it than the weight itself; the benefit of single or dependent setups is that extra inch or so of that tapered tubing... in my experience at least.

Yeah, it's indy. Good point about the taper.
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Matt K

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« Reply #18 on: Jul 24, 2017, 06:54AM »

I don't doubt you at all. But I'm drawing the line at a single-trigger bass. For my use, it wouldn't be worth the extra money for more than that. I have sat beside guys playing bass on everything from a King 2B with a trigger(!) to a double-trigger bass. Even the little King met the minimum standard in the groups I hang with, although I do admit the double-trigger bass was mighty impressive. But again, in the groups with which I associate, I know I could do well enough with either my 88H or my 3B/F with a Bach 5G mpc in either. But for the heck of it and not much more than say, a $1,000 - I think it would be fun and I emphasize fun - and nothing more than that - to have a larger horn. Clearly not a necessity or I would just drive down the road to another group where it didn't matter.

Someone possibly a lot younger and with much higher expectations? That's a different story completely.

...Geezer   

I guess what I'm saying is that you already have an 88 and the 5B isn't going to play much differently. I mean, sure, if you want to drop that kind of bread you can probably find another buyer if you don't like it! But you're probably better off finding a single rotor. The reason I suggested the 6B is the tenor sized rotor, but there are obviously other horns that fit the bill, mentioned in this thread even: 70H, 50B, etc.
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JohnL
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« Reply #19 on: Jul 24, 2017, 07:59AM »

I know this has been discussed on other threads, but in light of the direction this thread seems to be going, this question:

A King 4B or a King 5B?

Premise: playing essentially non-soloing bass trombone parts in a big band and/or amateur symphonic setting.

If you're thinking of a large-bore King for playing bass trombone parts, it's the 1480, hands down. The 4B and the later 5B (the one with the 4B-style wrap) just don't do as well in the low register.
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