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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentMouthpieces(Moderators: BGuttman, Doug Elliott) Vintage Conn 88H mouthpiece fit question
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Bjroosevelt
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« on: Aug 02, 2017, 10:02AM »

My son just got a vintage Conn 88H (1969 Elkhart) horn for his 12th birthday.  It is shocking how much it has improved his sound - as a trade up from a Bach .500 bore.

His music teacher is youngish and his primary instrument is Euphonium - so trombone equipment is not his expertise.  He asked whether the mouthpiece fits into the horn properly.  He thinks there might be some air leakage that is audible only in the low notes.

The shank of the current mouthpiece fits all the way into the horn, with the lip/shoulder at the base of the shank just barely touching the port in the horn.  (Sorry don't know the technical terms).  Inserted all of the way, the mouthpiece does not wiggle.    Is this the correct fit?  For most new mouthpieces we have seen, the shank doesn't fit all of the way into the horn.

The mouthpiece is labeled Schilke 57.  I think I saw somewhere online that the old Schilke mouthpieces fit the Conn 88 requiring a Remington shank.....but I have no way of knowing if this is a new or old Schilke mouthpiece. 

If you can help me determine if we have the the proper mouthpiece with the correct fit, please provide feedback.  Thank you.
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bubbachet

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« Reply #1 on: Aug 02, 2017, 10:09AM »

Can you post a photo?
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Bjroosevelt
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 02, 2017, 10:15AM »

Will post photos this evening.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 02, 2017, 10:43AM »

Will post photos this evening.

Posting photos here is a challenge.  The intuitive tools don't work (the Forum does not accept images).  Here is a thread about posting pictures:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,75147.0.html

Sounds like it's probably a "new" Schilke.  The shank is about the same length as a small bore mouthpiece.

You can try wrapping the shank with a layer or three of plumber's teflon tape to see if it fits better.

Also, you might have a Tech check to see if somebody pulled the leadpipe and there is nothing there.  You might also want to look in the case for a piece of tubing about 8 inches long that slides in the mouthpiece receiver part of the cork barrel.
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Bruce Guttman
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 02, 2017, 11:58AM »

You have a typical 88H with a Conn taper receiver (sometimes referred to as "Remington"), and a typical large shank that is a smaller size and different taper than the Conn.  It may seem like it fits, but it's not a good fit, although it probably does seal.

The older Schilke mouthpieces had a compromise dual taper that worked, but still would not have been a good fit.
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Bjroosevelt
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 02, 2017, 02:22PM »

Thank you for the feedback.  I am not going to be able to figure out how to post pictures.  Techno neophyte rather than techno nerd.
Contacted Schilke today.  Got the dimensions (length) for the old an new mouthpieces.  The mouthpiece we have is new (morse shank) so it definitely doesn't fit properly.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 02, 2017, 03:06PM »

You might want to scour Ebay (and our Classified Ads) for a Remington mouthpiece.  It's actually a little smaller than the one he has, but it was the standard 2 generations ago.  The large shank Remington is made to fit the B&S taper in your son's trombone.

Alternatively you can try the Teflon Tape solution I suggested above.

FWIW, I think a Schilke (or Yamaha) 57 is a tad too big.  I'd rather see him on a genuine Remington (about 5G size).  There is also a Bach called 5G-R that has the appropriate taper.  Again, look for used; new ones have a long lead time.
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Bruce Guttman
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Bjroosevelt
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 02, 2017, 03:58PM »

Thank you.  I saw that there were some Remingtons in the classifieds on TTF when I did a Google search.  Will look if I can figure out how to access. 

Yes, I'm not sure 'tad' is the correct answer for the Schilke 57 designed for the bass trombone....

Had been looking for something about the size of a 5G for some time.  I didn't know that was the size of the Remington until your post.  He uses a 6.5 AL and a Schilke 52D (euphonium MPC) on his old horn (.500 peashooter).  With his old horn, he could have gone bigger.  Can handle the 52D fine, but it isn't a great match for a trombone.
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Matt K

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« Reply #8 on: Aug 02, 2017, 05:00PM »

Someone on the forum here is selling a faxx modified to fit your horn. Ill try to remember to check when I get home.
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 04, 2017, 09:19AM »

My son uses a Schlike Symphony D5.1 (5G size) on his Conn 88HTO. Schlike will make their mouthpieces in a Remington shank if needed.  IIRC Horn Guys and Hickey's carry them.
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 04, 2017, 01:51PM »

Wow, Schilke 57 is a big mouthpiece. Some even consider it a small Bass trombone mouthpiece. I would not use it, to long.   He'll have issues, with his high register. Also, the mouthpiece, should only go in, about a inch, maybe a tad more.  Posting a picture would help.

Like others have said, Hickey's, Dillon, can get a Conn-Remington shank mouthpiece.  A Bach 5G, or I prefer a Bach 6.5AL.  The OEM Conn Remington large shank, comes up on ebay, for time to time.  Doug Elliott can make him one.  I use a Doug Elliott 101LT, with a F Cup and F8 (Conn) shank.  Which works very well, with Elkies.

Another option, which would require taking horn to a technician.  Have new leadpipe installed, that has a Morse taper.  (Brassark.com has them)  I recommend the MV.  This way, it solves future hassles, with switching mouthpieces.
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 04, 2017, 02:54PM »

5GR available here for $70 :  http://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/index2.php?cPath=197_204_205_465
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 04, 2017, 03:02PM »

Remember it's only very old Conn 88H's that have that receiver.
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 04, 2017, 06:08PM »

Doug set me up with a great piece for my Elkhart 88H. Proper shank and the horn has a great sound with the right shank!
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 04, 2017, 08:35PM »

I don't think a 12 year old needs a Doug Elliott setup.  When he's in High School and the Remington or the 5G-R are finally beginning to limit him, maybe then.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #15 on: Aug 05, 2017, 12:34AM »

A 12 year old doesn't need an 88H either, but apparently he has one.
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« Reply #16 on: Aug 05, 2017, 03:30AM »

You guys are funny.  Yes, Yes, Yes.   Of course he doesn't need an 88H.  He could run with a 0.525 throughout college and no one would care. A few months ago I asked what to get him on TTF....and the strongest answer was......get him what sounds best.....and he'll grow into the 88H sometime in middle school.  (Though there were some voices that said a.525. would be best) 

So that is what we did.  We bought the vintage ('69 Elkhart) because it sounded best on him, even with this giant Schilke 57 mouthpiece that doesn't fit correctly.

Fortunately, DJ was able to provide him a 0.525 back-up horn from King at a reasonable price so that we have something he can have at school.

Horns tested were from:  Bach, King, Conn, Eastman, Olds, Yamaha, Getson.....some vintage, most new or slightly used.  The two best were the vintage Conn 88H and the new Conn 56H (dual-bore).   Would have bought the new 56H except for the rattle in the low registers on the brand new horn he was playing and the price tag. 
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Bjroosevelt
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« Reply #17 on: Aug 05, 2017, 03:36AM »

Also.....we elected to purchase the stock vintage Remington mouthpiece from the TTF classifieds.  It is on order.  If there is an issue, I will follow up on the other leads you all have posted. Thank you. For the help.
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« Reply #18 on: Aug 07, 2017, 11:26AM »

I think a used Remington is a good choice to get him started, keep in mind if you don't already know this the Remington comes in the Brown & Sharp AKA Remington taper, but was also available in a small shank version too.  Make sure you are getting the Remington for the larger Shank horn.    You might also want to get him a small shank Remington for his school horn so he will be playing on similar rims on the two horns.
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« Reply #19 on: Aug 07, 2017, 06:50PM »

Please don't let him play the 88H. Especially don't let him take it to school! It will get trashed! Maybe not by your son, but non of the other kids are going to give 2 hoots about the fact that he has a highly desirable PROFESSIONAL trombone! These horns are not designed to withstand the rigors that kids his age will put the horn through. Get him a Yamaha or if you "must" have a 88h, buy a newer one, and keep the Elkhart 88H for when he will truly appreciate what it is that he has. This horn is irreplaceable. 

M
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