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The Trombone ForumTeaching & LearningPractice Room(Moderator: blast) 12 major scales in 2 octaves in 2 minutes?
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BGuttman
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« Reply #20 on: Aug 10, 2017, 01:25PM »

Well, we should learn to play in all keys. 

Realistically the first three flat keys (F, Bb, Eb) might cover a huge percentage of high school literature. 

Except for orchestra where you need to add C, G, and D.  String players like sharp keys.
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« Reply #21 on: Aug 10, 2017, 06:01PM »

Yes, we should be comfortable in all keys, I just don't understand the need to race through them. The 2 minute mark seems so arbitrary and to me borders on ridiculous. Why? I honestly cannot articulate the reason, it just seems off.
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« Reply #22 on: Aug 10, 2017, 06:36PM »

Yes, we should be comfortable in all keys, I just don't understand the need to race through them. The 2 minute mark seems so arbitrary and to me borders on ridiculous. Why? I honestly cannot articulate the reason, it just seems off.

I don't think its arbitrary. Its as close to 60 bpm as you can get in round numbers, which is a good scale playing speed. You need to have all the keys under your fingers by memory. Everything depends on that. Improv, cello suites, modes, La Gazza Ladra, everything.
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« Reply #23 on: Aug 11, 2017, 04:59AM »

Yes, we should be comfortable in all keys, I just don't understand the need to race through them. The 2 minute mark seems so arbitrary and to me borders on ridiculous. Why? I honestly cannot articulate the reason, it just seems off.

You've got 50 kids in band to test, maybe more.  "Play a Bb scale.  That was pretty good.  Can you do A?  Okay, not bad.  Give me an E.  E!  No, I meant play the scale."  Pretty soon you've used up a half hour or more per kid. 

It's concrete and measurable, easily tested, and it gives the kids an achievable but somewhat difficult goal to motivate their practice.  Except for the bottom start problem, I'm starting to like the idea.  I think I will work on it myself, some of my scales have been a bit neglected.  Actually I tried last night but gave up and put the horn away.  Nothing was working in any part of the range.  I think the cause was overeating, the guilt of which caused me to work out intensely, and apparently that is not good before a practice session. 
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« Reply #24 on: Aug 11, 2017, 08:39AM »

Learn to play the instrument and stop complaining.  Do you really want trombone players to be held to a lower standard than others? 

BTW, did you see that video of a young kid band in Africa playing the hell out of a march in Db?
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« Reply #25 on: Aug 11, 2017, 02:46PM »

I'm always on the tail end of these posts but here goes anyway. My youngest son audition for Florida All State Band every year from 7th grade-12 grade. He was either first chair or second chair evry year except his 9th grade year when he got braces put one about three weeks before the auditions.....he still made All-State band then. Thats another story.

Here is how he worked on them. FIrst with a metronome working up to 1/4 note to 120. Then the Kitchen timer was used to get them done in the 2 minute time frame. This is also including arpeggios. He would also do some of the scales and arpegggios three octaves. He was constantly practicing these just about year round. You have to be tenacouis and driven to get there. For at least four of those year he and a trombonist from Tallahassee switched back annd forth on chair placement. Both play in professional orchestras now. This is well over 10 years ago. Practice and have fun doing it! His mom and I would have to tell him to stop practicing so we could go to bed.....Oh he also was on the  school basketball and baseball teams from 7th-12 grade.
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« Reply #26 on: Aug 11, 2017, 03:46PM »

I'm always on the tail end of these posts but here goes anyway. My youngest son audition for Florida All State Band every year from 7th grade-12 grade....

His mom and I would have to tell him to stop practicing so we could go to bed.....Oh he also was on the  school basketball and baseball teams from 7th-12 grade.

I recall a study trying to ascertain why Asian-American kids were generally doing better in school and tests than other ethnic groups. After they balanced for social factors like family income, parents' education, yada yada yada... they came down to the observation that these students were more likely to keep trying even after initial failures.

I presume that would work also for anyone not-Asian; it's a mental decision that has to be made rather than an ability one is born with.


The band teacher with the two minute drill probably didn't just invent that five minutes ago, it's something other kids have been doing in the past and the OP can do it too if he puts in the time to put it together. 
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« Reply #27 on: Aug 11, 2017, 03:54PM »

The band teacher with the two minute drill probably didn't just invent that five minutes ago, it's something other kids have been doing in the past and the OP can do it too if he puts in the time to put it together. 


The real question is can we all do it? 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #28 on: Aug 11, 2017, 06:21PM »

Setting up one requirement for all instruments.  Generally a bad idea but adopted because of simplicity (of the minds of the people writing the requirements).
As a classroom teacher... it's way easier/time-efficient to grade and the consistency applied across the board helps make overbearing parents happier.
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« Reply #29 on: Aug 11, 2017, 07:39PM »

The real question is can we all do it? 

I suspect some kids never did and still made it out of there with a high school diploma. What are the stakes, really?



This two minute thing ought to be easier for brass than wood winds.

There are just three valves to choose from on a trumpet.  Just seven positions on a trombone.

But do distant scales on a woodwind and it starts to get gymnastic.



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« Reply #30 on: Aug 11, 2017, 08:03PM »


But do distant scales on a woodwind and it starts to get gymnastic.





Not to mention playing across the break.
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #31 on: Aug 11, 2017, 08:40PM »

I would suggest playing all 12 using the circle of fifths, therefore no need to stop between scales. It just becomes a 2 minute song.

Start on which ever scale you feel comfortable with and go.

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« Reply #32 on: Aug 12, 2017, 03:02AM »

The real question is can we all do it? 
I had students that could do that, and faster too. Some of faster students I recomended to play the scales really slow.
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« Reply #33 on: Aug 12, 2017, 03:54AM »

When I was a middle school band director I challenged my students to play all 12 scales one octave in one minute.   Very easy to do, assuming they knew the scales!   
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« Reply #34 on: Aug 12, 2017, 03:58AM »

I would suggest playing all 12 using the circle of fifths, therefore no need to stop between scales. It just becomes a 2 minute song.

Start on which ever scale you feel comfortable with and go.


 Good!  One long etude!

...Geezer
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« Reply #35 on: Aug 12, 2017, 05:05AM »

Some even play carnival of venedig on bass trombone. I started practice it now so in 10 years it should be ready. :)

I had to both write and play all scales in my time. Including hole step and cromatic. And chords. It help memorizing when writing them down with a pencil. I never watch the clock when playing them, I try to do both fast and slow. Point for me is control over intonation, time and sound. Not so easy in any tempo! But we have to try.

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« Reply #36 on: Aug 12, 2017, 05:17AM »

I had students that could do that, and faster too. Some of faster students I recomended to play the scales really slow.

What I was thinking was that we all should do this. 

I see at least two reasons. 

One is that of course we should know all our key signatures whether they're commonly needed or not. 

The other is to do a two octave scale without having to pull off and reset, or squirm the embouchure around under the mouthpiece, or adjust it just a little bit without realizing it.  That may seem obvious but I'm not sure it always is, depending on the range.  I thought I could do it easily but this part challenged me. 

Are two octave scales good for beginners, considering that aspect? 

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« Reply #37 on: Aug 12, 2017, 07:01AM »

Would you be disqualified if you just played all the scales at the same time? Just do a 3 octave chromatic scale, and look the judge directly in the eyes and say "there, finished "
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« Reply #38 on: Aug 12, 2017, 07:03AM »

Would you be disqualified if you just played all the scales at the same time? Just do a 3 octave chromatic scale, and look the judge directly in the eyes and say "there, finished "

 :-0

Then drop the mouthpiece to the floor ala mic drop!

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« Reply #39 on: Aug 12, 2017, 07:20AM »

:-0

Then drop the mouthpiece to the floor ala mic drop!

...Geezer

SHURE!  :D
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