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Author Topic: High note articulation  (Read 3664 times)
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svenlarsson

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« Reply #40 on: Aug 19, 2017, 09:01AM »

I meant that rather than get too pedantic about the absolute position titles, use our ears and tuners if necessary to secure a foothold to these higher notes. And then create new sub-positions for them relevant to our setup.

Yes that is my idea too. 3,5 can be closer to 4 or closer to 3, somwhere in middle.
Also how to name the positions is absolut depending how you first learned them. All ways that work is right.
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timothy42b
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« Reply #41 on: Aug 20, 2017, 12:52PM »

If you want more defined slots in the upper register, try an Acousticoil. Works for me...may be dumbo's crow feather, but it works for me.  And I frequently get around in the Steinmeyer registers.

I can confirm that!  He definitely can get around up there. 
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Tim Richardson
Bob Riddle

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« Reply #42 on: Aug 20, 2017, 07:43PM »

???
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growlerbox
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« Reply #43 on: Aug 20, 2017, 10:40PM »

???


I think Tim means that Philip (ssking2b) has some facility in the Steimeyer range.
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« Reply #44 on: Aug 21, 2017, 04:11AM »

I think Tim means that Philip (ssking2b) has some facility in the Steimeyer range.

Or Acousticoil.

As much as I need all the help I can get in the upper/upper range, I'm not about to use a cheater. Why not just play everything down one octave and run it through an electronic device that changes the pitch up one octave, if we REALLY want a cheater.

...Geezer
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timothy42b
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« Reply #45 on: Aug 21, 2017, 05:13AM »

I think Tim means that Philip (ssking2b) has some facility in the Steimeyer range.

Yes.  He plays in a couple of groups I play in, and he has monster range and control. 

No comment on the acousticoil.   <grin> 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #46 on: Aug 21, 2017, 06:04AM »

Well, he voluntarily admitted to using it. So he has my respect for cheating honestly.

...Geezer
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timothy42b
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« Reply #47 on: Aug 21, 2017, 06:35AM »

I don't know what it does.

I would be surprised if I could tell any difference personally, at my level.  I won't rule out that more sophisticated players may detect differences I would miss. 

In that sense I doubt it's a "cheat."

Hey, I'm not all that sensitive to mouthpieces.  I use a 4 on my alto.  I tried a 15C this past week, based on a conversation here, couldn't tell much difference.  Of course it's a pBone mini, that might have an effect.
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #48 on: Aug 21, 2017, 07:00AM »

I don't know what it does.

I would be surprised if I could tell any difference personally, at my level.  I won't rule out that more sophisticated players may detect differences I would miss. 

In that sense I doubt it's a "cheat."

Hey, I'm not all that sensitive to mouthpieces.  I use a 4 on my alto.  I tried a 15C this past week, based on a conversation here, couldn't tell much difference.  Of course it's a pBone mini, that might have an effect.

Maybe it's a good side discussion of what constitutes a "cheat". And maybe I shouldn't have used that word.

Anyway, did me having my teeth capped, constitute a "cheat"? Does my selecting a King 2B with a Bach 12C mpc to play as high as I possibly can, constitute a "cheat"? Does "shifting" that some say they do, constitute a "cheat"? Does the selection of a leadpipe that enhances a person's high range, constitute a "cheat"? Does using a Wedge mpc? Etc. Etc.

...Geezer
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Bob Riddle

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« Reply #49 on: Aug 21, 2017, 07:40AM »

in regards to the acousticoil. I would regard it as more of an aid than a cheat.(no offense intended).just as I would call Mouthpieces,Leadpipes,different bore horns,horn designs,etc. ways of helping us all to find our inner voice for every situation.Different players approach the horn differently on a basis as much of philosophy as much as science.Both have their merits IMHO. my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state.not part of original discussion,but it seemed like it would fit at this point in the discussion.

VHY
Bob riddle
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« Reply #50 on: Aug 21, 2017, 07:51AM »

Aid!

Thanks Bob. My erudition is quite determinate.  ;-)

Now everyone please excuse my absence a while. I have to go out in my yard this afternoon and play some Calypso music!  Way cool

...Geezer
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« Reply #51 on: Aug 22, 2017, 12:16PM »

Let me say this - It is not a cheat, it's an alternative piece of equipment along the lines of lead pipes, weights, etc.  I also use one in my bass trombone and tuba.  Not for high notes, but for refining control, or if you will, aiding me to have more finite control over my approach to the horn.  I can do the same things range wise on any horn with or without the accousticoil.  I just prefer the way that all my horns play in ALL registers with it.

BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case.  Why?  Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."

Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too.  If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.
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« Reply #52 on: Aug 22, 2017, 12:47PM »


Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too.  If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.

Yes, I've heard him, and he can nail that note with power.  I'm in awe. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #53 on: Aug 22, 2017, 01:20PM »

Let me say this - It is not a cheat, it's an alternative piece of equipment along the lines of lead pipes, weights, etc.  I also use one in my bass trombone and tuba.  Not for high notes, but for refining control, or if you will, aiding me to have more finite control over my approach to the horn.  I can do the same things range wise on any horn with or without the accousticoil.  I just prefer the way that all my horns play in ALL registers with it.

BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case.  Why?  Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."

Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too.  If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.

That's very interesting. So it's not some instant high-range gimmick like I saw on YouTube once. I did go to the page and read about it after seeing your post. But the manufacturer can write anything he wants to and in the five years I have been on this Forum, I haven't seen it mentioned once. Although there are many boards I do not look at.

I'm with you in trying to play from a more relaxed state. I work very, very hard every day to learn how to play without working hard.

This topic doesn't get enough discussion. Harrison commented on it as well. I mentioned the concept once recently to a nephew who does some singing. He was familiar with the concept and it's application to high-range training. Shouldn't this idea be as basic to brass players as inhale-press-and-blow? And yet it apparently isn't.  Don't know

...Geezer
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svenlarsson

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« Reply #54 on: Aug 23, 2017, 05:05AM »

Let me say this - It is not a cheat, it's an alternative piece of equipment along the lines of lead pipes, weights, etc.  I also use one in my bass trombone and tuba.  Not for high notes, but for refining control, or if you will, aiding me to have more finite control over my approach to the horn.  I can do the same things range wise on any horn with or without the accousticoil.  I just prefer the way that all my horns play in ALL registers with it.

BTW, for Geezer's sake - I can play the double high Bb on my Holton TR180 bass bone with my Marcinkiewicz 105 mouthpiece any time...dead cold out of the case.  Why?  Because I understand breath control, and I practice exactly what Bob Riddle described: "my personal approach is about being as efficient and relaxed as possible physically with a relaxed but focused mental state."

Tim may have heard me do that at a rehearsal, too.  If not, Tim, let me know and I'll demonstrate next Monday night when I see at rehearsal.

Can you tell more about the Acousticoil? Sounds very interesting. (I can play double Bb on my basses too, not looking for a hightone help), but this sounds like something that has to do with the acousting of the horn, maybe making the standing waves mor steady?
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« Reply #55 on: Aug 23, 2017, 05:17AM »

When these first came out I knew several players trying them out.Not sure how many still use them.The idea ,as I remember it was to aid in the centering of notes,and slotting of notes, which in theory would aid intonation and tone quality.
Hope this helps some,

Bob Riddle
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« Reply #56 on: Aug 23, 2017, 05:20AM »

The Acousticoil is designed to create a slight acoustic disruption.  This does influence the standing waves. It was designed by a trumpet player to help his middle school and elementary school trumpet students get a proper focus, or slotting to their playing.   It makes finding your slot on each not easier, or in my estimation, allows me a more finite control of the focus of my sound.  The device is created using sound principals of physics, and is patented.

You don't hear all that much about them as it was created and manufactured by a one man operation.  The creator is over 80 now , so he is not really actively producing the device any more. Myself and 2 partners are talking with him about keeping the product alive.

It does little or nothing for some players, but in the case of others, the difference is instant and dramatic.  I call it dumbo's crow feather because if it helps you fly...mission accomplished. Why, how, etc doesn't matter if it works!  It works for me, and many people I have introduced to it. We fly!
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« Reply #57 on: Aug 23, 2017, 05:33AM »

At any rate, until you guys can gain distribution rights, it appears to be a moot discussion point, as they apparently are no longer for sale. I went to their web site and then on to the site they list and all it shows are car stereo systems.

...Geezer
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« Reply #58 on: Aug 23, 2017, 05:40AM »

We have had some discussion in the past.  I thought it was here but google found some on the old trombone-l (blast from the past, interesting to see some of the names that showed up), on trumpet herald, on tubenet, etc. 

Some people liked them a lot, some could tell no difference.  Most thought the acoustic explanation of the inventor is very unlikely, but that doesn't rule out an effect for some other reason, maybe just adding a little resistance at the right spot.  Fontana was cited as somebody who used them. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #59 on: Aug 23, 2017, 06:35AM »

Tim,
  What you said lines up very well with what I remember.
Bob Riddle
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