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Author Topic: Homophobic Australia?  (Read 903 times)
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Graham Martin
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« on: Aug 11, 2017, 03:51PM »

Whilst I don't really think the subject of same-sex marriage is a political topic, it has become very much so in Australia. The coalition government went to the election promising a plebiscite on the subject, even though they were able to put it to a direct vote in Parliament. For this reason, and perhaps the cost, the first electoral-style plebiscite was defeated in our Senate. Now the Government is going to have an alternative postal vote, which is non-binding, non compulsory and will cost Australia $122 million of public funds. Even if we say yes, the result still has to go to Parliament for a vote, although one would expect that it would pass if the country has voted in favour (or against, I guess).

This postal vote has now been challenged and the High Court has agreed to rush it through and hear the challenge on September 5 and 6.

I am with the Opposition (and some Government members) and cannot for the life of me see why they don't put it to a direct vote in Parliament right now! Clever Although the PM says he is in favour of same-sex marriage, it seems he is frightened of the opposition to this in his own party Yeah, RIGHT. and needs the argument of saying that the majority of Aussies are for it, which it seems is obvious to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsfyPG4DUHQ
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 12, 2017, 10:41AM »

I've never understood homophobics.  What can they possibly be afraid of?   Don't know  Boggles the mind.

Do the Australian government realize they are just about the last western culture that has not addressed this yet?

You know what happened overnight in the countries where same-sex marriage was accepted?  Just about nothing other than some loving couples could express that more formally.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #2 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:06AM »

The people who claim same-sex marriage will ruin the institution seem not to understand that the total homosexual population (male and female) is less than 10%.  So if that small fraction of the population can completely undermine the institution, it can't be too stable.

As Grah has pointed out, the majority of Australians support same-sex marriage.  It's just some religious extremists who have a problem with it.  Very similar to the US.  As long as the homosexuals don't impose their preferences on the rest of us, what does it matter?  (unlike some heterosexuals who seem to want to impose their preferences.)
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:10AM »

I've come to feel that "homophobia" is a misnomer.

It seems to be more anger, moral-posturing and manufactured grievance than actual fear.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #4 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:39AM »

I've come to feel that "homophobia" is a misnomer.

It seems to be more anger, moral-posturing and manufactured grievance than actual fear.

I've always thought the same thing.

"Homophobia" is designed to take power from aggressive opponents of homosexuality by implying that they're acting out of fear. That may be a noble purpose to some, but the inaccuracy and manipulativeness of the term still annoy me. Also, the term would naturally denote "fear of the same" or "fear of sameness", and in order to give it the current meaning you have to imply that gay people are called 'homos'.
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:40AM »

 I would think the term "homorevulsion" might be more appropriate.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 12, 2017, 12:02PM »

and in order to give it the current meaning you have to imply that gay people are called 'homos'.
I've known one gay couple for about 40 years that refer to themselves as 'fairies' and 'homos' and much worse things.  The one calls the other 'the queen' and he in turn calls his partner 'the old fag'.  They are totally unconcerned with name calling and stupid people's issues with them.  As I recall they have been totally open about who they are as long as I have known them.
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 12, 2017, 12:48PM »

"Anti-gay" may encompass the realities better.  Basically, whatever you are, whatever you do, whatever you want... they're agin' it.



As I read about it I see that Australia recognized some sort of same-sex union (similar to common-law marriages in the US) that had some legal rights to it since 1975. So they were out ahead on that but most of the important issues weren't covered by it.

It seems odd that strongly Catholic Ireland has legal gay marriage while Australia doesn't.  :D

When the European countries started legalizing gay marriage in the 2000's after no real movement on it for years I felt like it was maybe a tacit anti-American statement based on opposition to George W. Bush and all his policies.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #8 on: Aug 12, 2017, 04:53PM »

I've known one gay couple for about 40 years that refer to themselves as 'fairies' and 'homos' and much worse things.  The one calls the other 'the queen' and he in turn calls his partner 'the old fag'.  They are totally unconcerned with name calling and stupid people's issues with them.  As I recall they have been totally open about who they are as long as I have known them.

I get that--I've met gay couples who described themselves as 'old queers'. That's akin to black people appropriating and subverting racial slurs. That doesn't mean I want to embed them into the language in some spurious way.
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Graham Martin
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 12, 2017, 05:16PM »

I should point out that 'homophobic' is not a word or description that is used commonly in Australia. I confess to penning my topics a bit like the copy I wrote for so many years and trying to round off the post with a bit of music - hence the link word with the subject, due to Tim's "I Still Call Australia Home (ophobic)" :D

'Anti-gay' is much more commonly used and the postal vote we are having is about 'Same-sex marriage'.

The postal vote has become much more politically heated in the last few days, and therefor I did choose the correct Board. Clever Same-sex marriage has even overshadowed North Korea this weekend. Not in Queensland though, because we have a long weekend for the Ekka. The Ekka is Brisbane's largest cultural festival; an annual event held at the Brisbane Showgrounds, when the country comes to the city. Good! Last night's news was full of wood-chopping events. Way cool

Back to the politics - The Press are reporting that the Same-sex marriage postal vote, and leader of the Opposition's request for the PM to work with him on the 'Yes' vote, which he has declined, might actually help to protect a vulnerable Turnbull.

Nonetheless, Labor's leader Bill Shorten will be putting a lot more effort into the campaign than the Prime Minister, who has now said that campaigning for 'Yes' won't be a major priority for him. The truth is that Turnbull wants to limit his investment in case the result comes out negative.

One of PM Malcolm Turnbull's fiercest critics is the ex PM he ousted, in Tony Abbott, who is taking the lead in the Liberal 'No' vote campaign. Mind you, his rhetoric is always a bit of a failure because after he speaks anywhere and is reported on TV; it is immediately followed by a clip of his sister who is openly gay and obviously very much against her brother in this debate.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-11/same-sex-marriage-shorten-might-help-protect-vulnerable-turnbull/8797416

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Grah

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« Reply #10 on: Aug 12, 2017, 05:19PM »

Graham, I wasn't criticizing your thread title--"homophobic' is the current word for people who don't like gays. I was just complaining about the word. I agree with your sentiments.
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Graham Martin
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 06, 2017, 04:01PM »

The High Court of Australia has still not come up with a ruling on the challenges to the Federal Government's plan for a voluntary same-sex marriage survey. We apparently might get one today:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-07/same-sex-marriage-emotion-largely-absent-in-high-court-hearing/8879888

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Grah

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« Reply #12 on: Sep 06, 2017, 04:08PM »

All I can say is that Canada is still intact 10 or more years after legalized same sex marriage. I don't know if this has resulted in someone marrying their pet; all I can say is that I haven't been invited to such a marriage.

I can't speak for the US though.
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Graham Martin
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 07, 2017, 01:07AM »

The Federal Government's voluntary postal survey on same-sex marriage will be posted out within days after the High Court ruled 7-0 that it is constitutional. Good!

I still do not think the postal survey was necessary because it could have been voted on in Parliament. And even if the postal vote is in favour of same-sex marriage, it will still have to be passed by the Parliament to become law.

The plebiscite was definitely a political manoeuvre and Malcolm Turnbull is looking very relieved by the High Court's decision to dismiss the challenge against it. The PM can now maintain internal peace on an issue that has long upset the moderate-conservative divide inside the Liberal Party. If the seven justices had ruled the other way, the Prime Minister would have been in a lot of trouble. Of course, there is still a lot of division on the 'yes' or 'no' vote, let alone the need for the postal survey and it will be interesting to see if the politicians carry out the will of the people.
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Grah

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Graham Martin
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 26, 2017, 06:31PM »

Our so-called Plebiscite - actually a survey - has progressed to the state where all forms for voters are claimed to have been sent out by ordinary mail under the auspices of the Australian Bureau of Statistics. I certainly got mine and have replied. It was a very simple form with just a 'Yes' or 'No' box to tick in response to the question, "Should the law be changed to allow same-sex couples to marry?"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-22/same-sex-marriage-survey-form-and-other-risky-online-photos/8964268

All voters are strongly encouraged to return their surveys by October 27th with the final deadline being November 7th. The results will be released on November 15th at 11:30am if everything proceeds to plan.

Since it is voluntary, it will not matter how many people actually vote, even if it is a low turnout. The only thing that the Australian Turnbull Government has said it will be looking at is the result. Thus, if 'No' gets more votes, it is all over for now. But if 'Yes' gets more votes, which is what I expect, there will be a vote in Parliament before the end of the year. The Turnbull Government would be crazy to go against the will of the people but there certainly seem to be a lot of 'No' voters in the Liberal and Country parties that make up the governing coalition. And they have not even decided what the exact motion will be that they put to the Parliament. Confused

There seems to me to be a lot of very questionable advertising by various organisations for both the 'Yes' and 'No' votes and it is a fairly divisive issue. The gay nephew of former Labor PM Kevin Rudd was beaten up by 'No' voters. And ex Liberal PM Tony Abbott, very much at the forefront of 'No' campaigning despite his gay sister, was head butted in the street by a 'Yes' voter. Actually the perpetrator said he deserved to be head butted anyway for his previous performance as PM. Can't say I disagree. :D Not really though, because nobody deserves to get head butted, even in sport where it is becoming only too common and has resulted in quite a few suspensions over recent weeks. Yeah, RIGHT.   


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Grah

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« Reply #15 on: Sep 27, 2017, 05:40PM »

It's certainly been an ugly procession through the campaign. On the way to work each morning, there has been a local member of parliament standing out in a major intersection with rainbow flags and yes signs. However for the last week or so, there has been a number of people standing there with signs now saying "It's OK to say NO". Good ole free speech at work I guess.
Unfortunately, there have been arson threats made against local business owners for displaying rainbow flags, their response was to add more flags to their shop front!
Both sides of the argument have shown their ugly sides with clashes and abusive behavior. Hopefully this will all die down once a decision has been reached and the issue put to bed finally.
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Graham Martin
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 27, 2017, 07:00PM »

The latest news on the survey sideshow:

This Sunday is perhaps the biggest sporting event* in Australia with the North Queensland Cowboys Good! playing the Melbourne Storm in Sydney in the NRL Grand Final. (Ho! Ho! No NSW team is playing :D). Booked for the entertainment is US rapper Macklemore who has said he will be performing his hit song 'Same Love', which is about same-sex marriage. This has got ex PM Tony Abbott upset and very critical. However, Attorney-General for Australia, Senator the Hon George Brandis QC has criticised his fellow party member and argues the song "topped the charts a couple of years ago" and that it was not unusual for headline acts to play their most popular tunes at the events." Good!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-28/ssm-macklemore-nrl-grannd-final-abbott-brandis/8995490

*Not forgetting of course the AFL grand final on Saturday between Adelaide v Richmond. Good!

P.S. We Queenslanders thought for a while that it might even be an all-Queensland NRL Grand Final but the Brisbane Broncos let us down by losing their semi final against the Storm. Yeah, RIGHT. 
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Grah

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May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
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May you build a ladder to the stars
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May you stay......forever young."
Graham Martin
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 30, 2017, 03:50PM »

We will see today what kind of reception Macklemore will receive at the grand final but he has already pledged to donate 'Same Love' earnings to the same-sex marriage Yes campaign. And the recording has shot to #1 on Australian  iTunes.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-30/macklemore-will-donate-aus-earnings-of-same-love-to-yes-campaign/9004420

The NRL has confirmed that Macklemore was a purposeful choice for the opening, on the basis of their backing of the Yes campaign. It was not just a coincidence that he was chosen for the performance, which is what has upset people in the No campaign such as ex PM Tony Abbott. However they have banned Yes and No and other political banners from the game.

Incidentally, our present PM Malcolm Turnbull is fully in support of Macklemore's performance and the Yes campaign.

Another ex PM John Howard has also come out of the woodwork to question whether the Federal Parliament can be trusted to enact “any effective protections of the kind that will be required” should the country’s marriage laws change. Even though I do not agree with his viewpoint on special protections for things that religious organisations object to, I do question why the motions eventually to be put to Parliament was not formulated before the survey, so that people really knew what they were voting for. Yeah, RIGHT.

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/former-prime-minister-john-howard-says-legalising-same-sex-marrige-would-have-wide-implications-in-no-advert-ng-b88613274z

The best piece of advice I saw in one of the Sunday papers today for NRL Grand Final attendees was, "If you are afraid of being turned into a homosexual by a half-time song, go and have a beer instead." :D
« Last Edit: Sep 30, 2017, 08:00PM by Graham Martin » Logged

Grah

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Graham Martin
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 01, 2017, 03:46PM »

Macklemore's appearance at the NRL grand final was particularly interesting for me because of all the hype and bad blood between the two sides in the Australian Same-sex marriage debate during our national survey currently underway. I even thought Macklemore might be told by the NRL not to perform the tune 'Same Love'. But they did not back down on their pro same-sex marriage standpoint and at the end of the tune Macklemore even proclaimed 'equality for all!'

It was a very professional performance by Macklemore himself, although I thought not so much so from the backing dancers and singers. Of course, I am not a fan of Rap anyway and think it is just a lot stomping and chanting of gobbledegook. I cannot for the life of me understand why it ever became such a popular music(?) form. :-P

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-01/macklemore-performs-same-love-at-nrl-grand-final/9005752

The whole grand final was very disappointing for we Queenslanders because the Melbourne Storm won 34-6 against North Queensland Cowboys to claim their third premiership. In fact the Cowboys were thrashed by a far superior team playing some excellent football.
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Grah

"May God bless and keep you always
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May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
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May you stay......forever young."
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