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The Trombone ForumTeaching & LearningPractice Room(Moderator: blast) Taxing trumpet playing is killing my Trombone chops....
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bonenick

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« on: Aug 13, 2017, 04:01AM »

No, this is not about bragging  :D

Taxing trumpet playing (jazz, occasionally wandering in the lead trumpet range) makes my Trombone chops weak (I often switch from trumpet to Trombone and vice versa on this gig).

Anyone with tips about this? I do practice both instruments and occasionally practice the switch itself.
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Andrew Meronek

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« Reply #1 on: Aug 13, 2017, 06:42AM »

You're using the same muscles on both instruments; it makes sense that getting tired on one will make you tired on both. Or, is that not quite what you meant?
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #2 on: Aug 13, 2017, 07:01AM »

Perhaps you are expecting too much of yourself. If you think you should be able to play the trumpet in a taxing way first and then play the trombone as fresh as you play it when you play it first, then you have exceedingly high expectations, IMO.

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 13, 2017, 07:48AM »

Bummer. Sounds like it's time to stop practicing "making the switch" and just go through with it once and for all  Evil.

I can help you make this decision:

get a large balance scale, and let it decide for you in a non biased way. Make sure the scale is up above you. Put the trombone on one side of the scale, and the trumpet on the other. It will offer you the instrument you should play, and move the instrument you should not play even further away.
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bonenick

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« Reply #4 on: Aug 13, 2017, 09:56AM »

Maybe I should repeat it once again, that I am a professional trumpet player, doubling on trombone. The Tbone is a new instrument for me, which I started playing 7 months ago. I am still figuring some basic embouchure stuff like whether to align the jaws, wether to use air pockets in my embouchure and the use of some not so obvious positions of the slide. I have a decent range on the trombone for a beginner but the stamina is still kinf of an issue. When feeling tired or not in my best shape I can mostly manage it on the trumpet, but on the trombone I have obviously still a lot of work to do.

I am looking up to people like James Morisson, and that's the present goal - but obvously still a long way to go. If anybody has experience in multi-instrumentalists work done on the same gig, feel free to share.
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Andrew Meronek

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« Reply #5 on: Aug 13, 2017, 10:04AM »

Here's a nice interview that has some doubling advice:

http://trombone.org/articles/library/viewarticles.asp?ArtID=47
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 13, 2017, 11:49AM »



Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Don't do that.
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bonenick

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« Reply #7 on: Aug 13, 2017, 02:56PM »

Andrew, thanks for that. It is an interesting interview. Not much on my "problem" but the few thoughts on breathing and embouchures are quite essential, though not news to me. I admit I'm guilty of not putting enough air in the low register of the Trombone.

Rob, I didn't get hurt - I just probably had exceeding expectation, I believe that geezer is right on the money. The other issue I noticed is when doing the instant switch between the two a la JM (aka question-answer, while using the trombone with a closed slide) I get distracted from. the embouchure switch because of trying to get the playing  instrument in the microphone - seems like a tiny side obstacle, but it is something that is not coming "naturally"
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DaveBb
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« Reply #8 on: Aug 13, 2017, 03:56PM »

You're using the same muscles on both instruments

Based on personal (amateur) impressions and not having any particular expertise in anatomy or embouchure types (but a reasonable grasp of engineering)...

On trumpet you use a lot of muscles near the centre of the mouth to create a firm embouchure by pressing the lips vertically together, pretty much across the whole range of the instrument.

On trombone, for the lower to mid range the muscles near the centre of the embouchure are mainly relaxed and used as a flexible vibrating element, with the muscles outside the mouthpiece playing a major role in setting the tension in the lips (and hence the frequency of vibration i.e. pitch).

Regarding the original question, I think trumpet playing creates more highly developed muscles in the centre of the mouth, which may be an impediment to trombone playing as the developed muscles may be less flexible.

(Note: In an earlier life I played cornet for about 20 years. I struggle with low register on trombone - large bore with a 3G mouthpiece.  Having been working on building a trombone embouchure for about 6 years, my cornet playing now REALLY sucks.)

Dave

 


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