Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1089097 Posts in 72000 Topics- by 19326 Members - Latest Member: analyssalovesmusic4
Jump to:  
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Solution For A Frozen Trigger?  (Read 2121 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Adagiyo
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 30, 2016
Posts: 9

View Profile
« on: Aug 13, 2017, 12:01PM »

I got out my horn after around a week of not playing because I was moving into a new house. I was super excited to start playing again but i found that my trigger was completely stuck. I don't have access to a repair man atm are there any solutions I can use at home to solve this problem?
Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51295
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Aug 13, 2017, 12:17PM »

I managed to free a stuck trigger by flooding the valve with valve oil.  If there is a dried up bit of stuff in there sometimes it can free it.

Is the trigger stuck because of mechanical damage or simply stuff inside preventing it from turning?  If there's mechanical damage you will have to wait until a Tech can straighten things out.

Also, is it stuck at the valve or the actuator?  If you disconnect the lever and the rotor seems to work fine, look to some damage to the lever or maybe improper stringing (if a string linkage).

If any of this is more than you can handle, play it without using the trigger for now and get it to a tech ASAP.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6426

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Aug 13, 2017, 02:04PM »

If a horn had been sitting around for a decade rather than one week, I'd be getting out the "PB Blaster" which is something you buy in auto parts stores to loosen corroded nuts and bolts.

Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
simso
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Apr 26, 2014
Posts: 46

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Aug 15, 2017, 09:46PM »

If you disconnect the linkage to the rotor (prevents bending) this will allow you better access to apply a back and forth motion applied to the stop arm which is screwed directly to the rotor itself, just do a left right wiggle with your fingers, if its only been a week it should come free very quickly.

If not, off to the repair shop, where they will pull it apart and clean it.

Steve
Logged
Full Pedal Trombonist

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jun 16, 2009
Posts: 2988

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Aug 15, 2017, 09:55PM »

I would take it all apart as much as you can. If the rotor core is stuck in there squirt some WD40 and keep working at it gently twisting back and forth. And one it gets moving brush and wash it all out with room temp or barely warm soapy water and dry it out before reassembling and re-lubing. Just make sure you get all the WD40 out. If you don't have any or don't want to use it regular light weight rotor oil will work.
Logged

We don't just embrace insanity here, we feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.
daveyboy37

*
Offline Offline

Location: New Jersey, USA
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 4404

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Aug 16, 2017, 10:56AM »

Completely stuck after a week is somewhat worrisome. Question is where the hangup is. Is the linkage frozen, or the rotor itself?

I would say take it to a tech and have it serviced. When was the last time you had it apart to clean out the crud?
Logged

David Sullivan
Bass Trombone - Livingston Symphony Orchestra
Horns: Bach 39, King 3B, Yamaha YSL-640, Bach 42T, Kanstul 1570CR, Kanstul 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612RII
MPCS: Faxx 7C, Hammond 11ML, Laskey 59MD, Laskey 85MD.
Gabe Langfur

*
Offline Offline

Location: Boston, MA, USA
Joined: Apr 9, 2000
Posts: 4987

View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: Aug 16, 2017, 11:08AM »

Pour lots of oil down the valve from both directions and let it sit for a while. Then try again.

If you can't get it moving again just by flooding it with oil, you will almost certainly do more harm than good by trying anything else.
Logged

Gabe Langfur
Bass Trombonist
Rhode Island Philharmonic
Vermont Symphony
Rodney Marsalis Philadelphia Big Brass

Trombone Faculty
Boston University
Kinhaven Music School
Wellesley College

S. E. Shires Artist
Le.Tromboniste
*
Offline Offline

Location: Basel, Switzerland
Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 327

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Aug 20, 2017, 07:31AM »

Come on folks, the answer is obvious

1) Take apart
2) Clean
3) Lubricate

If there's still a problem, then go see a tech or explore further solutions...
Logged

Maximilien Brisson
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51295
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Aug 20, 2017, 10:34AM »

Come on folks, the answer is obvious

1) Take apart
2) Clean
3) Lubricate

If there's still a problem, then go see a tech or explore further solutions...

If you don't know how to take apart and reassemble a rotor valve correctly you can do a lot more damage and turn a relatively inexpensive job into a major one.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Le.Tromboniste
*
Offline Offline

Location: Basel, Switzerland
Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 327

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Aug 20, 2017, 12:05PM »

If you don't know how to take apart and reassemble a rotor valve correctly you can do a lot more damage and turn a relatively inexpensive job into a major one.

It's not like it's rocket science either... It's easy to learn and it takes 30 seconds to do.

Replacing strings on a violin can do damage if you don't do it correctly, but violinists don't go to the luthier every time they need to change a string...
Logged

Maximilien Brisson
Full Pedal Trombonist

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jun 16, 2009
Posts: 2988

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Aug 20, 2017, 12:39PM »

It's not about the simplicity of the job. It's frozen so it also might not come out. Soak it and get it moving then take it apart and clean it.
Logged

We don't just embrace insanity here, we feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.
watermailonman

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 1440
"Do your best and then do better"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: Aug 20, 2017, 12:41PM »

If you disconnect the linkage to the rotor (prevents bending) this will allow you better access to apply a back and forth motion applied to the stop arm which is screwed directly to the rotor itself, just do a left right wiggle with your fingers, if its only been a week it should come free very quickly.

If not, off to the repair shop, where they will pull it apart and clean it.

Steve

First a lot of oil and then what was described here works. It has happened more than once that my triggers have stuck. I have to many horns, and sometimes a horn has not been played for a month. I have learned and usually remember to switch through all my trigger horns. The Schilke with Hagman-valve is the one that has had most problems. It needs to be played at least once a week. Oil valves regularly and they will not stuck.

/Tom
Logged

Listen to my playing on soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/user-796193724
Visit my page at https://sites.google.com/site/brazzmusic/

Instruments: King 2b+, Kanstul 1570, Kanstul 1662. m-pieces: Bach 6 3/4, Hammond 12 ML, Hammond 20 BL
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51295
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Aug 20, 2017, 02:47PM »

It's not like it's rocket science either... It's easy to learn and it takes 30 seconds to do.

Replacing strings on a violin can do damage if you don't do it correctly, but violinists don't go to the luthier every time they need to change a string...

It's not brain surgery either, but I know of many people with NO mechanical aptitude and these should be prevented from disassembling mechanical things like triggers.

Example:  A guy I know has a Hamilton stand that is missing the rubber cap.  I told him to get a 5/8" cane tip at the pharmacy.  It was beyond what he could do.  I took one off my stand while he watched and gave it to him.  He's a pretty good trombone player even so.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
watermailonman

*
Offline Offline

Location: Sweden
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 1440
"Do your best and then do better"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: Aug 20, 2017, 11:24PM »

It's not brain surgery either, but I know of many people with NO mechanical aptitude and these should be prevented from disassembling mechanical things like triggers.

Example:  A guy I know has a Hamilton stand that is missing the rubber cap.  I told him to get a 5/8" cane tip at the pharmacy.  It was beyond what he could do.  I took one off my stand while he watched and gave it to him.  He's a pretty good trombone player even so.

There are people who can't solve problems ;-)

/Tom
Logged

Listen to my playing on soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/user-796193724
Visit my page at https://sites.google.com/site/brazzmusic/

Instruments: King 2b+, Kanstul 1570, Kanstul 1662. m-pieces: Bach 6 3/4, Hammond 12 ML, Hammond 20 BL
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51295
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Aug 21, 2017, 05:48AM »

There are people who can't solve problems ;-)

/Tom

That's an alien life form to me.  I'm an Engineer and mechanical stuff has always been pretty easy.  Disassembly and reassembly is pretty straightforward.  But sometimes there are special tricks to make things better.  Example is putting that bearing plate back on the valve.  You have to put it on straight or you can really screw things up.  I'm always willing to share any tips and tricks I've learned, but some can't figure them out.  I had a friend who flunked Descriptive Geometry because he couldn't figure out what the back side of the object looked like with a front, top, and side view.  He became a teacher and from what I understand did quite well at it (but obviously not teaching Descriptive Geometry).
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Geezerhorn

*
Offline Offline

Location: PA
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
Posts: 5574
"Lego My Trombone"


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: Aug 21, 2017, 05:57AM »

I have a name for guys like that, "The All-Thumbs Guy".  ;-)

Then there's "The Poser Guy", who has all the new, fancy, shiny equipment and can't use it worth a darn.  :cry:

Of course, we all love "The Questions Guy", who can think up the most intricate ways to complicate something simple.  Amazed

But we digress. Time for "The Digression Guy". No explanation needed.  Evil

Of course, these are all hypothetical and intended for amusement only! And OBTW: I've been all of them and many more. lol

...Geezer "Bob The Builder"
Logged
timothy42b
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colonial Heights, Virginia, US
Joined: Dec 7, 2000
Posts: 12367

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: Aug 21, 2017, 06:45AM »

Come on folks, the answer is obvious

1) Take apart
2) Clean
3) Lubricate

If there's still a problem, then go see a tech or explore further solutions...

0) Look at it for a long time
1) Take apart
2) Clean
3) Lubricate

It may not be necessary to take all of it apart.

Certainly I've completely disassembled stuff only to find out that was totally unnecessary (although fun.  I am an engineer.)  You have two chances of damage, one taking it apart and one putting it back.

The valve can stick because the rotor doesn't turn inside the valve.

But it can also stick with a perfect rotor and valve, because the linkage came to an inline condition.  I've had that happen. 

Before you go taking it apart, see if there's something else that's possible.
Logged

Tim Richardson
harrison.t.reed
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colorado
Joined: Apr 5, 2007
Posts: 2771
"Spartan Brass Band!"


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Aug 21, 2017, 08:15AM »

It's not like it's rocket science either... It's easy to learn and it takes 30 seconds to do.

Replacing strings on a violin can do damage if you don't do it correctly, but violinists don't go to the luthier every time they need to change a string...

30 seconds? Exaggeration
Logged

"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
timothy42b
*
Offline Offline

Location: Colonial Heights, Virginia, US
Joined: Dec 7, 2000
Posts: 12367

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: Aug 21, 2017, 08:21AM »

I'll bet you don't restring one in 30 seconds your first time. 
Logged

Tim Richardson
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Online Online

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51295
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: Aug 21, 2017, 08:33AM »

I'll bet you don't restring one in 30 seconds your first time. 

I've known French Horn players who can string one in an extended rest.  I can't.  Don't do it often enough (thank heavens!).
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: