Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1080384 Posts in 71498 Topics- by 19054 Members - Latest Member: trombonejb
Jump to:  
The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatReligion(Moderator: bhcordova) Videos on religion/atheism
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Videos on religion/atheism  (Read 448 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« on: Aug 19, 2017, 03:37PM »

Let's get some viwes on these subjects from other folk.


Wow!  This goes off the rails...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/cU7Qy87jn4Y" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/cU7Qy87jn4Y</a>
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Aug 23, 2017, 09:29PM »

The reason I started this thread was to give both side an opportunity to showcase the voice folks other than the usual suspects (like me) including from the side of religion.  Really, I think this an opportunity to broaden the scope of our religious discussions.

Here are the views from some comics.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Wf1Cge5P8Pc" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/Wf1Cge5P8Pc</a>
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Aug 23, 2017, 10:23PM »

One of today's geniuses.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3aNLADAHyeM" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/3aNLADAHyeM</a>
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, GA (USA)
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 18421
"Reality Junkie"


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Sep 16, 2017, 10:47AM »

The reason I started this thread was to give both side an opportunity to showcase the voice folks other than the usual suspects (like me) including from the side of religion.  Really, I think this an opportunity to broaden the scope of our religious discussions.

Unfortunately some of the most outspoken believers in here seem to be very fearful of anything remotely like an even playing field on this issue. The lack of affirmation unnerves them, obviously, so actual criticism sends their knees flailing about wildly and completely out of control. Problems ensue.
Logged

- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, GA (USA)
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 18421
"Reality Junkie"


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Sep 16, 2017, 10:50AM »

This is one of the first videos that should be posted in any such topic:
 
Qualia Soup: Open-Mindedness
Logged

- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
Andrew Meronek

*
Offline Offline

Location: Livonia, MI
Joined: Sep 30, 2001
Posts: 6863
"Justly Intoned"


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Sep 16, 2017, 11:27AM »

Ah, the Atheist Experience. I haven't tuned into those guys in a while - I appreciate their effort to educate, but I just don't find it interesting to see all of the weird things people believe wrongly about science, religion, et cetera.

Matt Dillahunty is an exceptional debater, whatever else you think of the show.
Logged

"All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians."

- Thelonious Monk
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Sep 16, 2017, 11:55AM »


Unfortunately some of the most outspoken believers in here seem to be very fearful of anything remotely like an even playing field on this issue. The lack of affirmation unnerves them, obviously, so actual criticism sends their knees flailing about wildly and completely out of control. Problems ensue.
There must be some convincing debaters on the side of religion ... surely?
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, GA (USA)
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 18421
"Reality Junkie"


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Sep 16, 2017, 07:57PM »

There must be some convincing debaters on the side of religion ... surely?

Who said anything about that ... eh?
 
A debate mindset's not terribly useful, particularly in a free for all forum like this.
 
But of course there are plenty of believers who are quite capable of weathering something as traumatic as disagreement.
Logged

- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
drizabone
*
Offline Offline

Location: Central Coast, Australia
Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 1915

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Sep 17, 2017, 12:15AM »

CPX has videos.  How about this one

https://publicchristianity.org/library/why-bother-with-history

or this

https://publicchristianity.org/library/evolution-god-and-the-problem-of-evil
Logged
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Sep 17, 2017, 06:42AM »

Good videos.  Thanks Martin.

I was not aware that folks thought history to be unimportant.  Seems we are lacking somewhere in our education systems.  Perhaps it's the presentation of history to younger students that needs to be revamped.

I would like to comment on somethings Bebbington said.  Having an eyewitness to and empty tomb is not evidence of who, if anybody in particular, occupied that tomb.  The only thing it is evidence of is that the tomb is empty.  Right now there just seem to be too many claims as to exactly where the tomb of Jesus was/is which casts enormous doubts on any after the fact eye witness accounts.  As well, we all know the general veracity of eyewitness accounts, especially those handed down verbally.

At the risk of being mean spirited - the eyewitness accounts of Jesus leaving the tomb are like saying "I heard from this guy that his cousin said he saw a guy come out of a tomb.  He can't remember where that tomb was but he's 100% sure the guy he saw was Jesus.".  For me, this is not compelling evidence for anything.  It may make me want to go take a look, but unfortunately we can't so it's pretty much useless as hard evidence because there is no way to verify it and that just makes it hearsay.

Quote
I like this one.  Comments:  The host opens with "Evolution provides added weight to the idea that you don't need to belive in the Christian god."  Well, maybe some do, but not me.  I guess my 3rd perspective is that, evolution, aside for being the best model we have to describe bio-diversity, adds weight to the concept of not taking the old testament literally.  The guest is well spoken and clear in his thoughts, but his idea that some questions cannot be answered on this side of death seems a bit evasive.  Clearly his scientific background and his religious beliefs offer some contradictions he's not able to resolve.  Still, one of the best pro-Christian videos I've seen.
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
Andrew Meronek

*
Offline Offline

Location: Livonia, MI
Joined: Sep 30, 2001
Posts: 6863
"Justly Intoned"


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Sep 17, 2017, 12:43PM »

The cool people over at Crash Course on Youtube are producing a series on mythology:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeX6CX5LEj0&t=8s

Kind of reminds a proscription from Daniel Dennett (mentioned in an above post) to teach *all* religions in religious history classes in public schools.

It's reasonably reasonable that their Crash Course Philosophy also could apply here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A_CAkYt3GY
Logged

"All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians."

- Thelonious Monk
drizabone
*
Offline Offline

Location: Central Coast, Australia
Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 1915

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Sep 18, 2017, 12:16AM »

I would like to comment on somethings Bebbington said.  Having an eyewitness to and empty tomb is not evidence of who, if anybody in particular, occupied that tomb.  The only thing it is evidence of is that the tomb is empty.  Right now there just seem to be too many claims as to exactly where the tomb of Jesus was/is which casts enormous doubts on any after the fact eye witness accounts.  As well, we all know the general veracity of eyewitness accounts, especially those handed down verbally.

At the risk of being mean spirited - the eyewitness accounts of Jesus leaving the tomb are like saying "I heard from this guy that his cousin said he saw a guy come out of a tomb.  He can't remember where that tomb was but he's 100% sure the guy he saw was Jesus.".  For me, this is not compelling evidence for anything. 

Feel free to be mean spirited.  I won't hold it against you.

But the guys back then did know where the Jesus tomb was (at least in the account we have).  I can't see how not knowing where the tomb is now is relevant?  The accounts say:
- the Romans verified that Jesus was dead
- Jesus was buried in that tomb
- the Romans set a guard on the tomb so that no one would interfere with the body
- the women came along to finish embalming the body, but found the guard and the body gone.
- and lots of people reported seeing Jesus alive in the succeeding weeks.

The account provides a complete chain.  I think your only option is to believe or disbelieve the account.
Logged
Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, GA (USA)
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 18421
"Reality Junkie"


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Sep 18, 2017, 04:17AM »

Feel free to be mean spirited.  I won't hold it against you.
 
But the guys back then did know where the Jesus tomb was (at least in the account we have).  I can't see how not knowing where the tomb is now is relevant?  The accounts say:
- the Romans verified that Jesus was dead
- Jesus was buried in that tomb
- the Romans set a guard on the tomb so that no one would interfere with the body
- the women came along to finish embalming the body, but found the guard and the body gone.
- and lots of people reported seeing Jesus alive in the succeeding weeks.
 
The account provides a complete chain.  I think your only option is to believe or disbelieve the account.

Yeah, I'm not sure why so many remain so fixated on biblical technicalities even after apostasy (not suggesting that describes BillO--it's something that does come up in criticism entirely reasonably), but I suspect most are ex-fundamentalist types. The issue is much deeper and more straightforward than whether there are technical issues with the Bible. The issue is whether or not you accept the Bible as an authoritative source. If you do, the technical issues are pretty much all no problem for the mind to navigate. For literalists and perhaps some inerrantists it may be an issue, but I don't think they're a very well chosen battle, if you're just into the battling.
Logged

- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
Radar

*
Offline Offline

Location: Rochester NY
Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Posts: 658

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Sep 18, 2017, 03:47PM »

So far I've only watched the first video posted so I'm going to limit my comments to that for now.  The problems that Atheists have with religion as put forth in the Bible are the same thing that many who call themselves Christians also struggle with.  I believe it is possible to believe that there is a God out there, and the Jesus is his son, without taking every word written in either the old or new testament as some kind of perfect magical book handed down to us by God himself.  I believe there is plenty to be learned from the Bible, but there is also much that I read with the understanding that many of the events recorded were not meant to be taken as accounts of literal occurrences.  The Bible was written by men who were inspired to record what had been passed down to them about God and his "Chosen" people.  All of this was filtered through the lens of their current cultural norms, and their desire to portray themselves as God's chosen people, and justify their own actions.  Although I believe there is a God I don't believe that a loving God destroyed his entire creation except for his favorite Noah and Noah's family, I don't believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale and lived to tell about it. Like the caller in the first video (who I don't totally agree with everything he said either) I do believe that there was a new covenant in Christ that supersedes, clarifies, and simplifies the old testament.  There are also things in the new testament that I have issues with (mostly found in the writings of Paul) also.  I base most of my faith on the Gospels and the words of Christ as recorded in them.   Bottom line I worship God the Father, and his Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as the way God interacts with us, I don't worship the book as a perfect book that is historically, and morally accurate.  My views are similar to a moderately large subset of modern day Christians, but are far from Universal, or even officially 100% accepted by any organized Christian religion.  I do belong to a relatively liberal Branch (the ELCA) of the Lutheran Church and some of my take on the Bible is in line with the official doctrine of the Church (but I'm much more willing to dismiss some of the Biblical Teachings, than my Church would admit to).  I've spent a lot of time reading the Bible and I'm fairly familiar with many of the apparent contradictions in the book.  I've also read many of the writings of people trying to prove they aren't there.  As a Christian I can say I have faith in God, without claiming that every word of the Bible is God's word for word dictation.  I find that some of the people who most adamantly defend the Bible as the unadulterated word of God, are the people who have spent the least time studying it.     
Logged
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Today at 05:35 AM »

Yeah, I'm not sure why so many remain so fixated on biblical technicalities even after apostasy (not suggesting that describes BillO--it's something that does come up in criticism entirely reasonably), but I suspect most are ex-fundamentalist types.
Well, I was never a fundamentalist, but I do feel the technicalities, or more properly the inconsistencies, of the bible are important.  If Billions of people are going to learn the correct way of living from reading these books, then they should be pretty darn close to being error free.  But they're not.  Even more amazing it that the Christian canon is supposed to be the best examples of such writings cherry picked from a much larger collection.
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: Today at 05:57 AM »

Feel free to be mean spirited.  I won't hold it against you.

But the guys back then did know where the Jesus tomb was (at least in the account we have).  I can't see how not knowing where the tomb is now is relevant?  The accounts say:
- the Romans verified that Jesus was dead
- Jesus was buried in that tomb
- the Romans set a guard on the tomb so that no one would interfere with the body
- the women came along to finish embalming the body, but found the guard and the body gone.
- and lots of people reported seeing Jesus alive in the succeeding weeks.

The account provides a complete chain.  I think your only option is to believe or disbelieve the account.
That account comes entirely from the bible.  If there is sufficient evidence to suggest the veracity of the bible is in question, and there is for me, then giving accounts from the bible does not help.

The Romans kept extremely good records, even in backwater places like the Levant.  Even if the official record keeping department was on vacation, the arrest, trial and execution of someone a supposedly influential as Jesus should have garnered some notice outside the little clique that was his Apostles.  There is no hard historical evidence for anyone associated with the bible.  Not even St. Paul.

By contrast, if you look at what could be called the ancient Greek canon you have the Iliad and the Odyssey by Homer and the Theogony and the Works and Days by Hesiod.  Both these people are well referenced in historical texts outside their works.  We know for sure who wrote their works too.  They did.  This is not the case for the authors of the Christian canon.
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: Today at 08:30 AM »

So far I've only watched the first video posted so I'm going to limit my comments to that for now.  The problems that Atheists have with religion as put forth in the Bible are the same thing that many who call themselves Christians also struggle with.  I believe it is possible to believe that there is a God out there, and the Jesus is his son, without taking every word written in either the old or new testament as some kind of perfect magical book handed down to us by God himself.  I believe there is plenty to be learned from the Bible, but there is also much that I read with the understanding that many of the events recorded were not meant to be taken as accounts of literal occurrences.  The Bible was written by men who were inspired to record what had been passed down to them about God and his "Chosen" people.  All of this was filtered through the lens of their current cultural norms, and their desire to portray themselves as God's chosen people, and justify their own actions.  Although I believe there is a God I don't believe that a loving God destroyed his entire creation except for his favorite Noah and Noah's family, I don't believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale and lived to tell about it. Like the caller in the first video (who I don't totally agree with everything he said either) I do believe that there was a new covenant in Christ that supersedes, clarifies, and simplifies the old testament.  There are also things in the new testament that I have issues with (mostly found in the writings of Paul) also.  I base most of my faith on the Gospels and the words of Christ as recorded in them.   Bottom line I worship God the Father, and his Son Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as the way God interacts with us, I don't worship the book as a perfect book that is historically, and morally accurate.  My views are similar to a moderately large subset of modern day Christians, but are far from Universal, or even officially 100% accepted by any organized Christian religion.  I do belong to a relatively liberal Branch (the ELCA) of the Lutheran Church and some of my take on the Bible is in line with the official doctrine of the Church (but I'm much more willing to dismiss some of the Biblical Teachings, than my Church would admit to).  I've spent a lot of time reading the Bible and I'm fairly familiar with many of the apparent contradictions in the book.  I've also read many of the writings of people trying to prove they aren't there.  As a Christian I can say I have faith in God, without claiming that every word of the Bible is God's word for word dictation.  I find that some of the people who most adamantly defend the Bible as the unadulterated word of God, are the people who have spent the least time studying it.     
Ray, I wish more Christians were like you. 
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
BillO
A trombone is not measured by it's name.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Ontario Canada
Joined: Jun 24, 2015
Posts: 2964

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Today at 09:32 AM »

Ken Ham ...  Yeah, RIGHT.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/08_NAED-3Tk" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/v/08_NAED-3Tk</a>
Logged

Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, GA (USA)
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 18421
"Reality Junkie"


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: Today at 10:13 AM »

Ken Ham ...  Yeah, RIGHT.

I can't help but think "canned ham" whenever I come across his name ...
Logged

- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: