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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentTechnology(Moderator: john sandhagen) Home Recording Studio Discussion
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harrison.t.reed
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« on: Sep 20, 2017, 07:17AM »

Hey all. I have the opportunity to set up a small recording studio when I move in a few months, setting it up in a spare bedroom. I was thinking of joining a home recording forum, but I figured there might be some savvy cats on here (Mike Lake comes to mind) who might have some ideas and answers.

I am sure I am not the only one who has dreamed of laying down some tracks at home, so I was hoping this thread could act as a general discussion of home recording.

First off, what my goals are for my studio -- I hope to start recording some music for trombone and piano, both classic pieces that we all know and love as well as original pieces I've composed. I also want a space that's set up and ready to go so I can create instructional videos using the same audio setup. I've already partially achieved this at work, but set up and tear down makes it too time consuming and nearly impossible to get a consistent sound (since the equipment is sensitive to how it's set up).

The gear I'm using is a two input Focusrite audio interface, a middle of the road large condenser mic, FL Studio's DAW, Piano in Blue v2 piano sound library controlled by midi, and Altverb as the main reverb plugin, which puts the mono source trombone recording at a specified place in a digital hall, and outputs beautiful stereo sound with reverb. Also, I use Sennheiser open back monitors while recording so that I can play normally. Closed back and in ear monitors make it impossible to play. Bleed isn't too much of an issue when revording brass.

This setup is actually pretty fantastic. A high end piano sound library like Piano in Blue, when played  by a friend on a midi keyboard, sounds better than any real life piano that I have access to, and since you can try out different mic placements and levels after the actual performance, it also is recorded better than anything I could do. What's more, the midi file that controls the library can be edited after the fact as well, so you can create a recording of a performance that never really happened. I could even remove the pianist altogether by exporting the midi from sibelius and humanizing it in FL Studio. Then it's just a matter of recording with a click track to the piano file.

Some things that I've been wondering about though:

1. Pianos are machines. They are comparatively easy to make a sound library out of than, say, a brass instrument. The day I can make an entire orchestra out of sound libraries is not here yet. However, I've looked into libraries like Vienna Instruments Solo Strings I, and I'll be damned if those strings don't sound like people are playing them. It's obvious that you need a lot of midi controllers to make a line sound real, but apparently lots of movie and TV music is "recorded" by just using these sound libraries. Does anyone on the forum have any insight to how to best use these libraries in music production? What else is out there besides Vienna Instruments  (it's prohibitively expensive!)?

2. If I lay down a couple of tracks that I like and it's worth pursuing further, and decide to put together an album for fun, what should I record? I was thinking of doing something similar to the audition CD Carl Lenthe did, with pieces that are commonly played by trombonists in school but just are not recorded anywhere. Barat's Andante & Allegro and the Nesterov Concerto come to mind.

3. Are there any big things I'm missing for equipment? The tapes I made with this setup for auditions in the past all sounded professional, but I bet I'm missing something big
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 20, 2017, 08:10AM »

Zac should definitely jump in and contribute!

I've got a simple setup, maybe too simple, but I don't dabble with sound libraries, so I can't be of much help.

I've got a Korg SP-100 stage piano, a Heil PR-40 dynamic mic, and a Sony music video camera plugged into a Yamaha mixer, that is patched into the computer through the line input. Like I said, very simple.

I look forward though to learning a lot on this thread. Thanks for starting it.
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 20, 2017, 08:33AM »

I look forward though to learning a lot on this thread. Thanks for starting it.

Me too!

Jerry Walker
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 20, 2017, 10:38AM »

If you haven't already, check out Mike's various youtube videos. He covers mic technique and basic signal processing for the stuff he does. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4eBkBctTQ9MNOIr8lkU44A
It's important to know what sound you want to achieve before you start, and keep the fiddling to a minimum.

I'm not exactly a professional, but I do have my own home studio, and have worked with numerous ska bands, jazz combos, and audition recordings in a local studio that deals mainly with music students in the area. I've done live sound and recording for a couple venues, and church bands.

For recording, mic placement is the single most important thing in determining the sound that you get. If you like the articulation and detail of the sound with the mic close up, then you won't really have too much effect from the room, but if you have the mic further back, and you're going to be adding digital reverb after the fact, you don't want to throw the listener off with a mismatch between the recorded room sound and the reverb room sound. Good bass traps and broadband absorbers will help. This is my preferred budget source. http://www.foambymail.com/acoustical-foam-products.html Though you can get away with couch cushions in the corners and moviing blankets draped over doors if you want a real dead space for the mic. Very narrow band EQ cuts can get rid of room resonances, as well as keeping the mic away from reflective surfaces.

Finding a good mic placement by yourself is more trial and error, but usually we have the performer play from a corner of the room, and then we'll walk the mic around the room with someone listening until we hear what we want.

For monitoring while playing, I usually end up using a set of wireless IEMs with only the right ear in.

I'm not familiar with the Vienna libraries, but with reasonable keys skills and a bit of time, you can create very passable section performances by yourself with just a basic set of string sounds. As long as you have a good string tone and know how a string section would approach the parts, you can get great results.

You record multiple takes of each orchestra part so you can get individual performances by "multiple" players in the section, and then duplicate and layer them with slightly different EQ. It creates a more genuine chorus/section effect, and really adds weight and depth to the sounds. You can touch up with some automation and fast compression/expansion to adjust the articulations. Altiverb should allow you to place these "different performers" practically in different seats in the hall to build the orchestra section.

This is the same technique that engineers use for horn sections, group vocals, and drum and guitar sounds that need to be larger.

You should record whatever you're passionate about. Don't record something just because it's a standard when you could be recording something that's never been done before.

The Focusrite interface and preamps are really good for the money, and if you're happy with your mic, or you've worked out an EQ to compensate for its qualities, then you should be set. It's not necessary, but when you have an itch to upgrade something, I recommend adding a proper tube preamp with impedance matching as a worthwhile investment, not the cheap starved plate pocket boxes, an actual rack mount high voltage job. Don't use cheap XLR cables, or the mic will be lifeless before it even gets to the preamp.

Gear isn't nearly as important as skills. A good engineer would have no problem getting a fantastic recording in your home studio, and a $12,000 signal chain in your bedroom won't make your recordings sound great if you don't know what you're doing.
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 20, 2017, 10:49AM »

Yes, I agree about mic placement, and I've found that mic type greatly effects where you need to place the mic.

Also, you nailed it with Altverb. Being able to physically place the instrument and recorded audio within the digital space is crazy!

For my purposes, since I'm using a digital room (small chapel really) in post production, I don't want too much of the real world room in the audio. I've found that the mic sounds best if it's parallel  with the floor (for a condenser, that means straight up and down) placed on a boom stand facing towards the bell, and two meters in front and half a meter above the bell.

I think that the room itself matters almost more than mic placement. For example, an isolation Wenger module sounds good for this kind of placement until you start playing on the bottom line of the bass clef. No amount of EQ can save that. I'll be putting up some bass traps and deflectors on the corners and walls of my room for sure.

For what to record, I do want to record pieces that I'm passionate about, but I also think it's a shame that many of the pieces that high schoolers play for district or all state auditions, and then use on college entrance auditions after they do well in all state, have either not been recorded or only have one recording by Carl Lenthe. No, it's not a macho thing to record this music, and some of the pieces on high school district/all state lists aren't worth recording, but a lot of them are perfectly fine. Plus it'd be a great first project while I arrange other tunes.
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 20, 2017, 11:03AM »

If you haven't already, check out Mike's various youtube videos. He covers mic technique and basic signal processing for the stuff he does. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4eBkBctTQ9MNOIr8lkU44A
It's important to know what sound you want to achieve before you start, and keep the fiddling to a minimum.

I'm not exactly a professional, but I do have my own home studio, and have worked with numerous ska bands, jazz combos, and audition recordings in a local studio that deals mainly with music students in the area. I've done live sound and recording for a couple venues, and church bands.

For recording, mic placement is the single most important thing in determining the sound that you get. If you like the articulation and detail of the sound with the mic close up, then you won't really have too much effect from the room, but if you have the mic further back, and you're going to be adding digital reverb after the fact, you don't want to throw the listener off with a mismatch between the recorded room sound and the reverb room sound. Good bass traps and broadband absorbers will help. This is my preferred budget source. http://www.foambymail.com/acoustical-foam-products.html Though you can get away with couch cushions in the corners and moviing blankets draped over doors if you want a real dead space for the mic. Very narrow band EQ cuts can get rid of room resonances, as well as keeping the mic away from reflective surfaces.

Finding a good mic placement by yourself is more trial and error, but usually we have the performer play from a corner of the room, and then we'll walk the mic around the room with someone listening until we hear what we want.

For monitoring while playing, I usually end up using a set of wireless IEMs with only the right ear in.

I'm not familiar with the Vienna libraries, but with reasonable keys skills and a bit of time, you can create very passable section performances by yourself with just a basic set of string sounds. As long as you have a good string tone and know how a string section would approach the parts, you can get great results.

You record multiple takes of each orchestra part so you can get individual performances by "multiple" players in the section, and then duplicate and layer them with slightly different EQ. It creates a more genuine chorus/section effect, and really adds weight and depth to the sounds. You can touch up with some automation and fast compression/expansion to adjust the articulations. Altiverb should allow you to place these "different performers" practically in different seats in the hall to build the orchestra section.

This is the same technique that engineers use for horn sections, group vocals, and drum and guitar sounds that need to be larger.

You should record whatever you're passionate about. Don't record something just because it's a standard when you could be recording something that's never been done before.

The Focusrite interface and preamps are really good for the money, and if you're happy with your mic, or you've worked out an EQ to compensate for its qualities, then you should be set. It's not necessary, but when you have an itch to upgrade something, I recommend adding a proper tube preamp with impedance matching as a worthwhile investment, not the cheap starved plate pocket boxes, an actual rack mount high voltage job. Don't use cheap XLR cables, or the mic will be lifeless before it even gets to the preamp.

Gear isn't nearly as important as skills. A good engineer would have no problem getting a fantastic recording in your home studio, and a $12,000 signal chain in your bedroom won't make your recordings sound great if you don't know what you're doing.

You mentioned using better quality cables. Why? Isn't wire, wire and all they are supposed to do is act as conductors? Is there some wire that is better than others as far as getting a more "lively" sound to the preamp?   Don't know

You aren't advocating platinum wire with silver connectors are you? $8-16K for a home recording studio?

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 20, 2017, 11:17AM »

Probably the quality and coating of the connection points is what matters most. The gold plated stuff gives you higher fidelity.
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 20, 2017, 11:23AM »

Probably the quality and coating of the connection points is what matters most. The gold plated stuff gives you higher fidelity.

Have you bought into that "Monster Wire" meme the salesmen want us to buy for our home entertainment centers? That's probably just to boost their commissions. I have heard a set-up wired both ways; cheap vs "Monster Wire". I can't hear a difference. Sorry, but I must question that. I mean, if we are talking nth degree and money is no object...

That rant made, yeah - gold connectors - why not. Affordable for most.

...Geezer
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 20, 2017, 11:45AM »

Have you bought into that "Monster Wire" meme the salesmen want us to buy for our home entertainment centers? That's probably just to boost their commissions. I have heard a set-up wired both ways; cheap vs "Monster Wire". I can't hear a difference. Sorry, but I must question that. I mean, if we are talking nth degree and money is no object...

That rant made, yeah - gold connectors - why not. Affordable for most.

...Geezer

Audio signals are low voltage signals to begin with. So, it doesn't take too much noise to become noticeable.



So, cheap XLRs can suffer from:
Cheap materials like thin copper wire, not efficient shielding, cheap XLR connectors, bad soldering joints(if it is even soldered), and bad connections in the mating of the XLR connectors.

You mentioned Monster Cables, which are usually used for HDMI cables for HD video. Signals can be affected if the bandwidth of the cable isn't sufficient for the bandwidth required for HD video.




 
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 20, 2017, 12:05PM »

Audio signals are low voltage signals to begin with. So, it doesn't take too much noise to become noticeable.

~snip~

Signals can be affected if the bandwidth of the cable isn't sufficient for the bandwidth required for HD video.

Yup, a good analogy is current vs wire gauge. Too small of a wire gauge means you can't pass enough current (or, it'll work but heat up and you risk fires). Too large of a wire gauge, and you're throwing money away, but not too many other detriments IME.

I've bought a large amount of wire and cabling that looks like it is large diameter but it really is just a ton of insulation on a dinky little wire. Cheap wire from amazon is notorious for being many gauges smaller than the measured OD would normally indicate.

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« Reply #10 on: Sep 20, 2017, 12:44PM »

What is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 20, 2017, 02:20PM »

What is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer

If you don't hear any problems with your current setup, I wouldn't sweat it.
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 20, 2017, 02:37PM »

Lol. I am never completely happy with the quality of my home recordings. I am always looking for a better way. I just started recording my solo track in stereo and that has helped. Of course, I learned a long time ago that the best & fastest way to improve a home recording is to play better!  ;-)

So you guys got me to thinking that perhaps all cables are not created equal. But getting "better" cables to the interface is only half of it. What good would that do if the cable going to my processor sucks. So I guess it would also effect sound quality?

...Geezer
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 20, 2017, 02:50PM »

the most important thing for you is going to be room treatment.
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 20, 2017, 02:54PM »

You mentioned using better quality cables. Why? Isn't wire, wire and all they are supposed to do is act as conductors? Is there some wire that is better than others as far as getting a more "lively" sound to the preamp?   Don't know

You aren't advocating platinum wire with silver connectors are you? $8-16K for a home recording studio?

...Geezer

No actually platinum wire and silver connectors would be a terrible idea. Gold plating is used for corrosion resistance, and the softness ensures a stable ground connection. Silver wire and gold plated platinum connectors might not be too bad though...

I was speaking about how the capacitance mostly, but also the reactance, and therefore the impedance of the cabling can affect the signal even in the short 10 meter runs. These are things that the cheaper cable manufacturers don't care about because their consumers also don't care. But there is a difference in high end detail at the end of the cable with cheap ones compared to the trusted stuff and I've heard it myself. We're dealing with very small voltages in the waveform that you're carrying. Just adding more shielding to keep ambient EMI out ends up affecting the frequency response, and when you're talking about condenser mics, you've essentially created a powered antenna. It's really important that the capsule bias voltage remains rock steady despite the outside noise so the mic can work as intended. Mono XLR, and TRS is used as a balanced connector, meaning it's a differential pair and ideally any noise picked up by the cable will be cancelled out at the preamp, but the voltage supply to the mic will still be affected by the noise. Unless your microphone cost less than your cable, Amazed there's usually enough filtering in the circuit board of the mic itself to deal with that. Some cabling rated for AES and digital mics has to be able to preserve proper limits on fall and rise times of the signal down to tens of nanoseconds, as well as phase shift issues.

There's a reason why the Mogami cables cost more than the amazon stuff, and it's not just the name. There's the lifetime warranty, and there's all the engineering that went into it. You'll see high end mic companies like Neumann actually list distances in cabling that the tube mic power supply, and the transformerless mics can drive, without significant loss or distortion of the signal.

Quad cables aren't necessary, but they do halve the chance of getting a loose connection. I don't recommend Monster Cable the brand just due to what I've heard about their business practices, but most of their products are quite good quality.
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 20, 2017, 03:10PM »

So you guys got me to thinking that perhaps all cables are not created equal. But getting "better" cables to the interface is only half of it. What good would that do if the cable going to my processor sucks. So I guess it would also effect sound quality?

USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt and most digital connections are all made such that there's no possible way the signal can be affected, if the connection is working. It'll just send the data again if it gets garbled, though this could mean increased latency or the connection cutting in and out if you're near the max bandwidth. You can get either active repeaters to extend the cabling or ethernet/optical converters if you're having issues.
http://www.yourcablestore.com/USB-Cable-Length-Limitations-And-How-To-Break-Them_ep_42-1.html


The only issue might be getting enough power to the interface if you bought a 30 ft USB cable for $.99. And maybe picking up noise on the power conductor, but again there should be sufficient filtering and regulation in the interface that this shouldn't be any issue.
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« Reply #16 on: Sep 20, 2017, 03:21PM »

Very, very cool guys!

 Good!

I know what my Christmas present is going to be; better cables! Bookmarked! Lol

...Geezer
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« Reply #17 on: Sep 20, 2017, 05:58PM »

What is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer

Mogami is one possibility: http://www.mogamicable.com
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« Reply #18 on: Sep 20, 2017, 06:11PM »

Yep. That's what I'm looking at and I should rearrange to keep the cables as short as possible. If it's a weak point in my home recording studio, it is easily correctable for a little bit of money, instead of a lot of money.

...Geezer
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« Reply #19 on: Sep 20, 2017, 07:40PM »

What is recommended and what is a good source for a better grade XLR cable?

...Geezer

Audiopile sells some fairly high quality mic cable for not much money.  http://www.audiopile.net/pro-quad-microphone-cables

They sell three different "levels" of mic cable, and I have all three in my recording and sound reinforcement rigs. 

Want Starquad cable with some high end XLRs?  Redco can custom make them for a fair price.  https://www.redco.com/

Doug
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« Reply #20 on: Sep 21, 2017, 02:02AM »

Yep. That's what I'm looking at and I should rearrange to keep the cables as short as possible. If it's a weak point in my home recording studio, it is easily correctable for a little bit of money, instead of a lot of money.

...Geezer

Good quality cabling and other accessories are available at low prices like never before. Most lower end pro cable is oxygen free with XLR's with decent strain relief. I've never had a mic lead go bad on me, and I used to own over 20 condensers with over 150 metres of cable. Whereas a woman that I work with buys the cheapest that she can find and they're always going wrong. The middle way grasshopper..

A couple of books about mic positioning could be handy as well, in particular articles about Early Reflections (E/R) and the effect of "Boundaries". All other things being equal, understanding the effect that the room can have on a recording and being able to predict an outcome, is the best way to maximise your investment.

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« Reply #21 on: Sep 21, 2017, 04:25AM »

Alrighty then, we've got cables knocked down cold!   Good!

I think we all have our fav mics. Mine is an EV RE20. But an SM57 or SM58 should be fine as well, unless you are old-school and prefer a vintage ribbon.

Now, what do we use to capture the wave? I'm using the best Dell desktop I could get at the time I bought it - about three years ago.

...Geezer
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« Reply #22 on: Sep 21, 2017, 05:12AM »


I think we all have our fav mics. Mine is an EV RE20. But an SM57 or SM58 should be fine as well, unless you are old-school and prefer a vintage ribbon.

...Geezer

I'd go for a Rode M3, because it has filtering options that make it far more flexible than the SM options.

Heavy duty metal body

Internal capsule shock mount

High level of RF rejection

On-mic selectable high pass filter @ 80Hz-12dB/Oct (-10 and -20dB PAD)

Heat-treated high-strength mesh head

Battery status indicator

9V Battery Power, 24 or 48V Phantom Power

Includes wind shield, mic clip and zip pouch

10 year extended warranty when you register your microphone

You could buy one, and another one later to make a versatile stereo pair.

Also the big presence peak that most stage mics have is smoothed down to 2 smaller ones.

I've got a couple of guest nights come up soon so I will be getting one; incidentally I do own an use a SM 58, but I don't care for it much...
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« Reply #23 on: Sep 21, 2017, 05:20AM »

I'd go for a Rode M3, because it has filtering options that make it far more flexible than the SM options.

Heavy duty metal body

Internal capsule shock mount

High level of RF rejection

On-mic selectable high pass filter @ 80Hz-12dB/Oct (-10 and -20dB PAD)

Heat-treated high-strength mesh head

Battery status indicator

9V Battery Power, 24 or 48V Phantom Power

Includes wind shield, mic clip and zip pouch

10 year extended warranty when you register your microphone

You could buy one, and another one later to make a versatile stereo pair.

Also the big presence peak that most stage mics have is smoothed down to 2 smaller ones.

I've got a couple of guest nights come up soon so I will be getting one; incidentally I do own an use a SM 58, but I don't care for it much...


I wouldn't use the high pass filter. I don't like to use any filters, except a little reverb. Number 1 rule of home recording is to keep it simple.

I have seen posts on this Forum raving about the SM57 and I challenged them b/c I didn't want to see the argument, "Well, they MUST be good mics b/c everybody is using them". I had one 3 years ago and didn't like it. In retrospect, I think it was me, however. I bought another one a month ago and it works nicely. I kinda like it with my EV RE20 for a stereo track. Using two different mics is like getting a second opinion. Lol

There appears to be something about recording in stereo. It seems to connect better with the stereo backing track when I mix them down and gives my solo more presence.

...Geezer
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« Reply #24 on: Sep 21, 2017, 08:28AM »

the most important thing for you is going to be room treatment.

Quoting this for it's importance.
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« Reply #25 on: Sep 21, 2017, 11:19AM »

I think you're right. And the importance seems to be:

Bass traps in the places where walls and floors meet

wall accoustic panels

wall accoustic deflectors
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« Reply #26 on: Sep 21, 2017, 11:41AM »

Another physical factor is parallel walls which most rooms in houses have. Most rooms in homes have rectangle shaped rooms. I'm assuming that most of use spare bedrooms for our home studio.

You could alter at least two walls with partitions or something to offset the facing walls that are parallel. Hopefully finding a solution without too much expense. If you are going to put accoustic panels on a wall, build a temporary 2x4 frame, to install the accoustic panels, to offset it from the parallel position. Do this to two walls, and you will do away with the parallels.
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« Reply #27 on: Sep 21, 2017, 11:52AM »

I have seen posts on this Forum raving about the SM57 and I challenged them b/c I didn't want to see the argument, "Well, they MUST be good mics b/c everybody is using them".

The SM57 is a workhorse stage mic but there are many better options for studio recording. Powering a horn section through the monitors and mains is a much different task than accurately recording for playback.

Virtually any large diaphragm dynamic mic would provide better trombone results in the studio. There are a lot of old radio designs being resurrected as podcasting and voice-over mics that also work great for general use in the studio, on vocals, horns, kicks, room. Shure SM7, your EV RE20, variants of these, others. Just steer clear of kick-drum specific mics in this space, they have a huge scoop in the middle right where we would probably want a little boost.

 Idea!
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« Reply #28 on: Sep 21, 2017, 01:17PM »

If you are going to put accoustic panels on a wall, build a temporary 2x4 frame, to install the accoustic panels, to offset it from the parallel position. Do this to two walls, and you will do away with the parallels.
This is good.

Acoustic traps in the corners where the walls and ceiling meet will have the most noticeable effect on getting the room to sound better.

After that, I'd recommend you build a couple 1 1/2" Furniture Grade PVC A-frames using five sections of tubing, a 3 way elbow at each top corner with one extra 45 on each side at the top to close up the angle.
Throw the heaviest moving blankets you can find over these. You can place them in the corners of the room.

If you have a flat finished ceiling, your next step should be some acoustic wedge foam up there, preferably 3" in thickness. You don't have to cover the whole ceiling, but you do want to make sure you cover the center of your room, and the area that the first reflections between your bell and the mic are going to occur.

If you need a more transportable solution, take two taller PVC frames on either side of where the mic is and span between them with a blanket over the mic.

The benefit of doing it this way is that it can be setup and torn down quite easily, and moving blankets and PVC have plenty more uses in the future. It's great if you don't want to touch the walls or ceiling if you're renting.

As for mics, I've really been digging the black Rode NT-1 on just about everything lately. For trombone, the Apex 205 ribbon mic has gotten good praise for a budget mic that can be upgraded in the future. http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Apex-Electronics/205 I don't think any of the dynamic mics have done a solo trombone sound justice. Fine for horn parts in a mix though.
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« Reply #29 on: Sep 21, 2017, 03:00PM »

Would love a pair of Neumann U89's
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« Reply #30 on: Sep 21, 2017, 03:32PM »


I wouldn't use the high pass filter. I don't like to use any filters, except a little reverb. Number 1 rule of home recording is to keep it simple.

...Geezer

For the sake of argument and from the Rode Manual,

A characteristic of most dynamic vocal microphones is that their ‘full frequency response’ is only evident when they are used very close to the sound source (within the proximity effect area). The low frequency of the M3 extends to below 20Hz which is an attractive quality for most recording situations.
For live performance however, you may wish to reduce these frequencies when using the M3 as a vocal microphone. If you have an external high pass  lter/bass roll-off, switch it in.
Alternatively, try moving the microphone away from the sound source (out of the proximity effect) or adjust the on-mic  lter switch.
This basic microphone control/technique should be practiced, to ensure that the best possible results are achieved.
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« Reply #31 on: Sep 21, 2017, 09:10PM »

I'll try to post some of my audition recordings on here soon. Anyone got some good recordings to demonstrate their techniques?
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« Reply #32 on: Sep 22, 2017, 07:48AM »

I've seen systems costing thousands of dollars put out of commission by a cheap cable.

Always buy quality cables. Money well spent.

Jerry Walker
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« Reply #33 on: Sep 22, 2017, 05:18PM »

I'll try to post some of my audition recordings on here soon. Anyone got some good recordings to demonstrate their techniques?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYaaeS8dJV0&feature=youtu.be

This is a short video showing my setup, accompanied with an audio recording, made with the equipment shown in the video.

Of course, I will never be tackling the more complex projects that you've indicated you're interested in, but you can at least hear the Heil PR 40 mic, which was about 6 inches in front of the bell.

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« Reply #34 on: Sep 22, 2017, 07:22PM »

Cool! The condenser mic is supposed to aim out like that? Mine needs to be placed upright so the diaphragm faces outwards.



sounds nice man!
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« Reply #35 on: Sep 22, 2017, 08:17PM »

The Heil PR40 that he's using is a dynamic, not a condenser, and it's end address. Can be quite hard to keep track of if you're dealing with mics you don't know that well...
https://heilsound.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Heil_PR_40_microphone-IB.pdf

Sounded great. I'll put up a clip next week sometime, will be busy this weekend,
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« Reply #36 on: Sep 23, 2017, 04:08AM »

Nice Dusty! Great sound and I applaud your choice of tunes. Nice little music studio.

So what are you using for a DAW and what is your wave editor?

How did you cobble up your background track?

How did you do your recording; karaoke style or did you use a head set?

Terrific job!!!!!!!

...Geezer
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« Reply #37 on: Sep 23, 2017, 05:39AM »

Nice Dusty! Great sound and I applaud your choice of tunes. Nice little music studio.

So what are you using for a DAW and what is your wave editor?

How did you cobble up your background track?

How did you do your recording; karaoke style or did you use a head set?

Terrific job!!!!!!!

...Geezer

Thank you! I love songs from the old american song book.

The software is band-in-a-box plus the realband module that comes with it. I didn't use any additional wave software, that's why you hear the countdown, etc. What you hear is just the raw mix output from the realband module.

I use apple earbuds, and put just one in my right ear, leaving the left ear open. The sound of the trax comes out of the computer small speakers and the ear buds.

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« Reply #38 on: Sep 23, 2017, 06:30AM »

Thank you! I love songs from the old american song book.

The software is band-in-a-box plus the realband module that comes with it. I didn't use any additional wave software, that's why you hear the countdown, etc. What you hear is just the raw mix output from the realband module.

I use apple earbuds, and put just one in my right ear, leaving the left ear open. The sound of the trax comes out of the computer small speakers and the ear buds.


Very cool! Bravo!

You might try opening up Audacity (if you have it) and setting it to record anything that goes through your sound card. Then hit "record", launch your BiaB selection and let Audacity record it. You will get an outstanding wave that is exactly what you hear BiaB playing. You can then edit out the beginning clicks if you want and adjust the gain, etc. Save it as a wave file and then play that through your earbuds, etc and lay down your solo track underneath it. Save that as an Audacity project and you can go back in to adjust gains on tracks or even phrases for balance, add some reverb, etc before saving it again and mixing it down to a wave file.

By using Audacity to record what BiaB plays, you get a truer sound from the midi files. I have found that sometimes when I use BiaB to save it's selection to a wave file, the midi gets distorted. But if you are recording in RealBand while playing BiaB, you are essentially getting exactly what you hear BiaB producing. And if it lets you keep your solo track separate from the backing track, then you ought to be able to go in and do some editing. But if it mixes it down to a combined stereo wave while you are recording, then you can't, so much.

You are getting great results, but if you follow my procedure outlined above, or one similar, you might find you have a lot more editing tools at your disposal post recording session. Otherwise, I wouldn't change a thing. You have it down cold for home use.

...Geezer
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« Reply #39 on: Sep 23, 2017, 07:04AM »

Geezer, you said:
"I have found that sometimes when I use BiaB to save it's selection to a wave file, the midi gets distorted."

I don't understand that. When I save the trax from BIAB to a wave file, it sounds good to me. How does midi get distorted?

Another thought, I haven't done this, but I bet Graham has and is an expert on this, and that is to open up Realband, open up a BIAB song, and then you should be able to be able to record your audio (trombone), then have complete mixing control over all the audio trax and BIAB instrument trax. Then create your final wav file.
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« Reply #40 on: Sep 23, 2017, 07:34AM »

Geezer, you said:
"I have found that sometimes when I use BiaB to save it's selection to a wave file, the midi gets distorted."

I don't understand that. When I save the trax from BIAB to a wave file, it sounds good to me. How does midi get distorted?

Another thought, I haven't done this, but I bet Graham has and is an expert on this, and that is to open up Realband, open up a BIAB song, and then you should be able to be able to record your audio (trombone), then have complete mixing control over all the audio trax and BIAB instrument trax. Then create your final wav file.

Don't know  It just doesn't sound right at all to me sometimes on certain songs I try to save that way. It's the soloist I have let BiaB auto-generate that gets distorted. I may have - say, a flute selected - which sounds good when played, but comes out as a harsh something or other noise when I save it to a wave file, so I just don't do it anymore.

*************************************************************************************************************

Okay guys. Here goes and don't laugh too hard!!!!!!!!

My music studio It's supposed to be silent but you can hear me breathing, so take off your headphones!  :-0

Mouthpiece collection. lol

My recording contribution (Ira Nepus Collection for MMO)

Maybe upgrading my cables will help with the sound fidelity! Maybe learning how to play better will as well!  :cry:

...Geezer
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« Reply #41 on: Sep 23, 2017, 07:43AM »

It's the soloist I have let BiaB auto-generate that gets distorted. I may have - say, a flute selected - which sounds good when played, but comes out as a harsh something or other noise when I save it to a wave file, so I just don't do it anymore.

Oh OK. I see what you mean now. I have never used the solo auto generate feature, and that's why I was confused. MyBad.

I'm ready now to listen to your trax!
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« Reply #42 on: Sep 23, 2017, 07:56AM »

Sounds really good Geezer! I don't hear any cable issues so, in my opinion, save your money for other toys!
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« Reply #43 on: Sep 23, 2017, 08:26AM »

Sounds really good Geezer! I don't hear any cable issues so, in my opinion, save your money for other toys!

Thanks, man!

Those are cheapo 'Zon cables.

I may play around with the soundproofing in my studio a bit, adding some more deadening to walls and especially corners.

The way I record, I have to stay dead on the mic. When I move my bell to one side or the other - even just a bit, you can hear some room effect I don't like. It's especially tough on multi-page charts!

...Geezer
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« Reply #44 on: Sep 23, 2017, 08:33AM »

For the Pershing's Own first round audition, I recorded a few required excerpts. Mostly in an isolation room with a condenser mic 2 meters in front and 1.5 meters above, and altverb to create the digital space:

Simple Gifts

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLWHFjQUkxQmhNMjA/view?usp=drivesdk

Tuba Mirum:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLSVQtVndjbElpdkk/view?usp=drivesdk

Rolling Thunder:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLRXhuRTRpeTVLZm8/view?usp=drivesdk

IGSOY:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLX2RVZ2tKeG9pR1E/view?usp=drivesdk

Lohengrin:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLUVFuMVktM2ZNUUU/view?usp=drivesdk

Priest and the Knockhead (muted solo. It needed a lot of EQ to fix the tiny isolation room I used):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLdGdfekZDSkoxMlk/view?usp=drivesdk
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« Reply #45 on: Sep 23, 2017, 08:43AM »

I'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!
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« Reply #46 on: Sep 23, 2017, 09:01AM »

I'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!

Not aimed at you in particular, but home recording is a skill and discipline like any other. There's loads of books like this to get you going, and should give you some "sound" principles to work from.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Recording-Musicians-Dummies-Strong/dp/0764588842
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« Reply #47 on: Sep 23, 2017, 09:24AM »

Not aimed at you in particular, but home recording is a skill and discipline like any other. There's loads of books like this to get you going, and should give you some "sound" principles to work from.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Recording-Musicians-Dummies-Strong/dp/0764588842

Sounds reasonable. I found it on the US 'Zon and ordered it, along with some new running shoes. And b/c I run with a FitBit linked with Humana for rewards, I was able to use a $25 'Zon gift card.  Way cool

Thanks for the idea!

...Geezer
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« Reply #48 on: Sep 23, 2017, 09:34AM »

I have that book. It's pretty good and it has already helped me.
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« Reply #49 on: Sep 23, 2017, 10:18AM »

I'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!

Not knowing what DAW you're using, I'd look for Male Vocal preset on your Reverbs to experiment with. In the meantime, here's something to be getting on with..

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/use-reverb-pro-1
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« Reply #50 on: Sep 23, 2017, 10:41AM »

So, that's not really feedback though... it's cool to put up info about reverb, but how about your thoughts on what you heard? Based on that article, it sounded like mud?

FWIW, I am using FL Studio as my DAW.

I always get self conscious posting recordings here, because the thread will be going strong, I'll post and then it goes mostly silent. :/
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« Reply #51 on: Sep 23, 2017, 11:03AM »

So, that's not really feedback though... it's cool to put up info about reverb, but how about your thoughts on what you heard?

I always get self conscious posting recordings here, because the thread will be going strong, I'll post and then it goes mostly silent. :/

What I heard is terrific technique, but the recording quality is meh at best. I can tell you have an excellent sound, but your recordings are not doing you proud in that department, IMO. Welcome to MY world! So I guess that is why you started up this thread? I'm glad you did. Even if this thread goes dead now, it still has had dome excellent contributions that merit re-reading and probably even saving.

Dude! You aren't playing a bass trombone!  Evil

...Geezer
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« Reply #52 on: Sep 23, 2017, 11:11AM »

I started it up for everyone. I've learned now that my recording setup blows.

So far we've seen a ton of different setups. I'm digging it!
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« Reply #53 on: Sep 23, 2017, 11:25AM »

I started it up for everyone. I've learned now that my recording setup blows.

So far we've seen a ton of different setups. I'm digging it!

I am as well.

If I manage to learn anything about home recording as I go along, I'll make a mental to note to post it here in the future. It shouldn't be too hard to find this thread. In fact, I'll bookmark it.

One thing we need to be careful about is winnowing information about pro studio recording from home recording. I mean, let's face it - money IS an object. So is space at home. So is education & training. We don't have a masters degree in sound engineering. That is why I am hopeful that the book Pre59 suggested will help. After all, it IS called home recording in it's title.

Just by being involved in the process, I learn new things all the time about BiaB, Audacity and home recording in general. So at this point, I am not expecting a light switch to go on. There is enough info in this thread that you should be able to come up with a game plan for improvement. I have. I think I am going to replace my cables anyway, whether they need it or not. That will definitely be one link in the chain that I can check a box for and never give it another thought. If I can tweak my recording sound quality another 10%, I would be very happy.

...Geezer
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« Reply #54 on: Sep 23, 2017, 01:30PM »

If my recording quality is subpar, I wonder if it's because of my mic or because of room quality?
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« Reply #55 on: Sep 23, 2017, 01:48PM »

From your first post: "Altverb as the main reverb plugin, which puts the mono source trombone recording at a specified place in a digital hall, and outputs beautiful stereo sound with reverb."

FWIW: I wouldn't run my solo track through a reverb at home in real time while recording. Reverb can always be added later. It might be too much, along with whatever room dynamics you have. Try another recording without it. In fact, try another recording capturing your raw sound as much as possible by taking the room dynamic out of it by playing right into the mic. You will probably have to adjust your mic gain way down. In your case, your raw sound should be pretty darn good; so good you might not even need to EQ for the mic.

Once you get a good raw sound, you can tinker with other filters. But my little experience is that less is more. By the time I have run my solo track through an EQ, a low-pass filter and finally a reverb - it sounds like mud and I just go back to the raw sound with a little wee bit of reverb.

If we were really, really into this - and I mean in a super-nerd tech way - then we would know how to tinker with ALL the EQ settings and ALL other settings for ALL other filters to tweak out or augment the EXACT freaks that WE as individual players need. But until then, we recording novices tend to use filters to hit the solo track with sledge hammers, hoping for a finely-crafted gold chain.

...Geezer
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« Reply #56 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:01PM »

Okay I'll bite. These are all really old recordings, just what I found saved in the email app on my phone.

These two were recorded with a Sennheiser e835 dynamic mic, sounds like a more open SM57. Placed about a 16" in front to the bell, center of the living room, not my current recording space. Straight into audacity, with a little corrective cut in the EQ on the highs. These were for a student that asked for an example, so one take rough recording.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxU1vsZtb-CeWRxUFJPZ05xMVE/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxU1vsZtb-CdGF2SFd2UFcyMmc/view?usp=drivesdk

I think it's good to show that your setup doesn't have to be complicated, or expensive.

This next one was a little more recent, but still with the same mic and room, this time placed a little closer. My mic technique was not great and you can hear I was waving the bell around a little. The biggest thing you'll notice on this one is the reverb. I believe I was using a free TDR plugin and the free version of Studio One. No EQ because of the reverb. I had it set to cut the frequencies of the room resonances on the reverb trail, so the digital reverb wasn't adding any tubbiness. I have a really bad room resonance around A at the top of the staff, and one octave above that. The stereo spread could be better on this one.

I think the reverb might've been overdone, but I was going for a stage sound. You've got to cover up your playing deficiencies somehow :D. The playing on this one wasn't as smooth as it could've been.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxU1vsZtb-CUTA5WDRQYml4X1k/view?usp=drivesdk
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« Reply #57 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:27PM »

Geezer, I did add the reverb after I was done recording.

I wonder if it is the room. Maybe I should record in stereo?
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« Reply #58 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:37PM »

Geezer, I did add the reverb after I was done recording.

I wonder if it is the room. Maybe I should record in stereo?

Okay. You have taken that out of the equation. Now take the room out by playing right straight into the mic, about maybe 8-16" or so away. You will have to experiment. I know you don't like to play into it that close but do it anyway. Just make very short test recordings until you have the mic at the right distance and angle. Find your sweet spot for that room. Don't initially raise or lower the mic. Play straight into it to get your bearings. And when you find the spot, you might find that even moving the bell sideways a little bit will change the sound - usually for the worse. So you will need to practice playing straight into the mic.

Of course, the other option is to change where you record. But even then, you will have to experiment to find that sweet spot and stick on it. Fortunately, in a larger room where the room dynamics are super, that sweet spot expands.

I wouldn't record in stereo until I had a good monophonic recording procedure, appropriate for the room.

...Geezer
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« Reply #59 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:43PM »

Posting so I can follow the thread. Interesting stuff!  Good!

I haven't gotten into home recording yet - although it's a possible path in life.  :) I somehow landed a job as a Controls Engineer for my day gig, so a lot of the skills I use there overlap with recording. At least, I think they do.  Don't know
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« Reply #60 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:50PM »

Geezer, I did add the reverb after I was done recording.

I wonder if it is the room. Maybe I should record in stereo?

For whatever reason, my ears just don't seem to be as critical as others. Your recordings are very good to me, and I didn't hear anything to complain about. I'm also impressed with your playing, so maybe I end up listening to that more.

I think for your stated purpose of making recordings, to enable students to listen to how certain etudes or studies should be performed,  you got it.

What I fuss over the most in my recordings is the amount of reverb that should be mixed in. Too much or not enough. I'm never satisfied, but then again, I'm using built in reverb that comes with the software (RealBand), and I need to experiment more with it.

Great job though for sure!
 
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« Reply #61 on: Sep 23, 2017, 04:17PM »

For whatever reason, my ears just don't seem to be as critical as others. Your recordings are very good to me, and I didn't hear anything to complain about. I'm also impressed with your playing, so maybe I end up listening to that more.

I think for your stated purpose of making recordings, to enable students to listen to how certain etudes or studies should be performed,  you got it.

What I fuss over the most in my recordings is the amount of reverb that should be mixed in. Too much or not enough. I'm never satisfied, but then again, I'm using built in reverb that comes with the software (RealBand), and I need to experiment more with it.

Great job though for sure!
 

I have to agree with you as far as a demo is concerned. However, I chimed in the way I did b/c I was under the impression that Harrison had two goals:

1) A demo
2) The highest fidelity sound he could achieve in a home recording - for the sake of it.

He knocked down goal #1 cold. Heck, even a recording on an iPhone or Android could do that. Goal #2 needs more work, IMO.

...Geezer
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« Reply #62 on: Sep 23, 2017, 04:35PM »

Really appreciate it fellas. I wish that there was a more objective way to express #2 though. I guess at this point it's like the blind leading the blind. I should get an account at a recording forum.
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« Reply #63 on: Sep 23, 2017, 04:43PM »

Really appreciate it fellas. I wish that there was a more objective way to express #2 though. I guess at this point it's like the blind leading the blind. I should get an account at a recording forum.

Experiment!!!!!!!!!!

Lol. I tried that. They will have as many opinions as we sometimes do on topics. But one take-away I still carry with me is to keep it simple.

...Geezer
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« Reply #64 on: Sep 23, 2017, 04:57PM »

I will !  :-0

I am moving soon and I'm going to set up my home recording studio. I've been dragging my crap into work every time and so it's a major PIA.
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« Reply #65 on: Sep 23, 2017, 05:37PM »

Keep it simple is really some of the best advice.

Recording in stereo is only going to pick up more of the room sound. If I were you, I'd be more worried about treating the lower frequency resonances in the room, and using a closer mic placement.

You might consider the frequency response of your mic, and how the natural EQ can accentuate or de exaggerate certain aspects. Some mics that have a rolled off lower end response are well suited to closer micing where the bass frequencies from the source are stronger than they would be at natural listening distance. Nobody listening to you live would be standing 8 to 16" from your bell, but the way the ear in combination with the brain hears subtlety in trombone "vowels" and "consonants" as being tone and articulation, is different than how the mic picks it up. Ears have selective listening and can focus in on certain aspects, whereas the mic is more "dumb". This is why the treble is boosted on most vocal mics, that presence and clarity is what the ear hones in on to comprehend speech. If you've ever heard a recording where someone is talking in a really reverberant room kind of far away and it just sounds like mud where you would be able to understand them fairly well in person, it's because of this phenomenon.

You should work on your understanding of your reverb settings to create the sound space with Altiverb. You have to compensate for your mic, at the position you placed it, with your trombone sound in front of the mic. The defaults or presets are a good starting point, but they won't get you all the way there. The handful of studios I've been in were all pretty live rooms, and the natural sound was used when it was useful. But it was worked out with mic placement when it wasn't desired, which is most of the time.

The closer you place the mic, the more detail of articulation and subtlety in nuance you can pick up. Bill Watrous' playing is ALL about nuance, and with the mic right up in the bell, every thing in his playing can be communicated clearly. In one of Mike Lake's videos, he refers to it as more "intimate" closer up. A lot of vocalists and voice artists describe the effect from closer micing with that word as well.

Your recording also has to be approached differently depending on what it's ending up as. You shouldn't mic for solo etudes the same as you would for over an accompaniment or backing track. You have to take into account the rest of the music and the space it occupies and where you want to fit into it.

Any sound source sounds different EQ wise at different distances, and different angles due to the directional nature of most sound sources, and the differential between fall off of low and high frequencies with distance, and the layout of the space. Low frequencies defract more easily than high frequencies, which mostly reflect. This affects how you hear the performer when you're at a concert, and you should take these things into account for determining your desired recording results.

I'm not quite sure what you don't like about your recordings so far, or what you want to change. You have to have a clear idea of what you want before you can place a value on the different changes or suggestions that we can offer. Maybe give us an idea of recordings that you'd like to emulate sonically and we can probably help more.

The only stereo recording style I think would produce usable results on a single source like trombone is something like mid-side processing or different mics and/or mic placements where the blend between the two can be used as an effect to get a more in depth sound or capture different information. I don't think stereo is worth going for in a home studio.
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« Reply #66 on: Sep 23, 2017, 06:12PM »

Keep it simple is really some of the best advice.

Recording in stereo is only going to pick up more of the room sound. If I were you, I'd be more worried about treating the lower frequency resonances in the room, and using a closer mic placement.

You might consider the frequency response of your mic, and how the natural EQ can accentuate or de exaggerate certain aspects. Some mics that have a rolled off lower end response are well suited to closer micing where the bass frequencies from the source are stronger than they would be at natural listening distance. Nobody listening to you live would be standing 8 to 16" from your bell, but the way the ear in combination with the brain hears subtlety in trombone "vowels" and "consonants" as being tone and articulation, is different than how the mic picks it up. Ears have selective listening and can focus in on certain aspects, whereas the mic is more "dumb". This is why the treble is boosted on most vocal mics, that presence and clarity is what the ear hones in on to comprehend speech. If you've ever heard a recording where someone is talking in a really reverberant room kind of far away and it just sounds like mud where you would be able to understand them fairly well in person, it's because of this phenomenon.

You should work on your understanding of your reverb settings to create the sound space with Altiverb. You have to compensate for your mic, at the position you placed it, with your trombone sound in front of the mic. The defaults or presets are a good starting point, but they won't get you all the way there. The handful of studios I've been in were all pretty live rooms, and the natural sound was used when it was useful. But it was worked out with mic placement when it wasn't desired, which is most of the time.

The closer you place the mic, the more detail of articulation and subtlety in nuance you can pick up. Bill Watrous' playing is ALL about nuance, and with the mic right up in the bell, every thing in his playing can be communicated clearly. In one of Mike Lake's videos, he refers to it as more "intimate" closer up. A lot of vocalists and voice artists describe the effect from closer micing with that word as well.

Your recording also has to be approached differently depending on what it's ending up as. You shouldn't mic for solo etudes the same as you would for over an accompaniment or backing track. You have to take into account the rest of the music and the space it occupies and where you want to fit into it.

Any sound source sounds different EQ wise at different distances, and different angles due to the directional nature of most sound sources, and the differential between fall off of low and high frequencies with distance, and the layout of the space. Low frequencies defract more easily than high frequencies, which mostly reflect. This affects how you hear the performer when you're at a concert, and you should take these things into account for determining your desired recording results.

I'm not quite sure what you don't like about your recordings so far, or what you want to change. You have to have a clear idea of what you want before you can place a value on the different changes or suggestions that we can offer. Maybe give us an idea of recordings that you'd like to emulate sonically and we can probably help more.

The only stereo recording style I think would produce usable results on a single source like trombone is something like mid-side processing or different mics and/or mic placements where the blend between the two can be used as an effect to get a more in depth sound or capture different information. I don't think stereo is worth going for in a home studio.


I like the concept of two different mics in a stereo recording. I think I used the term, a second opinion.

I think recording in stereo is useful to me for the above reason and b/c I can hear my solo track connecting better to the stereo backing track when I mix them down. It's subtle, but it's there and I'll take any incremental improvement I can get.

Good info; especially about mic proximity and intimacy, or nuance as you mentioned!   Good! 

OTOH, my experience is that I also have to be much more careful with my dynamic on a close mic placement. That tends to handicap me a little and if I am not careful, I can end up with a mono-dynamic recording, which I think is boring. As soft as I want to play is okay, but as loud as I want can be a problem if I over-do it when the mic is very, very close. Knowing this, I will "cheat" and edit my solo track to add gain in places when I want a louder dynamic. But it isn't quite the same effect as playing louder.

...Geezer
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« Reply #67 on: Sep 23, 2017, 06:23PM »

OTOH, my experience is that I also have to be much more careful with my dynamic on a close mic placement. That tends to handicap me a little and if I am not careful, I can end up with a mono-dynamic recording, which I think is boring. As soft as I want to play is okay, but as loud as I want can be a problem if I over-do it when the mic is very, very close. Knowing this, I will "cheat" and edit my solo track to add gain in places when I want a louder dynamic. But it isn't quite the same effect as playing louder.

With the RE20? That mic is capable of such high levels that they don't even feel the need to rate it.  Pant

But seriously, you won't get distortion from that mic, just adjust the gain on the interface. Before you play, go ahead and blow some loud middle register stuff to set the levels. A little low is fine, we're not battling a high noise floor. There's no harm in having to turn up the gain on the whole solo part a little
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« Reply #68 on: Sep 23, 2017, 06:32PM »

With the RE20? That mic is capable of such high levels that they don't even feel the need to rate it.  Pant

But seriously, you won't get distortion from that mic, just adjust the gain on the interface. Before you play, go ahead and blow some loud middle register stuff to set the levels. A little low is fine, we're not battling a high noise floor. There's no harm in having to turn up the gain on the whole solo part a little

Thanks. I do have the gain on the mic turned down as low as I can. I guess I can be a real Blaster Master when I want to be. lol Perhaps the real problem is that if I play very loudly, distortion from the room enters the party, even though I play pretty much right into the mic.   Don't know  But I do have to use restraint.

I wouldn't mind recording in a totally dead room, but I also have to practice and play for my own entertainment in that room, so I want some liveliness and it is a double-edged sword.

...Geezer
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« Reply #69 on: Sep 24, 2017, 01:59AM »

Learn about "Gain Structure", it's a thing. It's what those little flashing lights are for on your interface, and goes on through you your DAW.
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« Reply #70 on: Sep 24, 2017, 04:17AM »

Learn about "Gain Structure", it's a thing. It's what those little flashing lights are for on your interface, and goes on through you your DAW.

"The goal in setting the preamp gain is simple – get as much level as possible without allowing any clipping."

Seems reasonable...

...Geezer
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« Reply #71 on: Sep 24, 2017, 04:42AM »

With the RE20? That mic is capable of such high levels that they don't even feel the need to rate it.  Pant

But seriously, you won't get distortion from that mic, just adjust the gain on the interface. Before you play, go ahead and blow some loud middle register stuff to set the levels. A little low is fine, we're not battling a high noise floor. There's no harm in having to turn up the gain on the whole solo part a little

+1, An application that the RE 20 is commonly used for is for miking up a single instrument like a sax inside very loud bands, behind an equally set of monitors without feeding back. Shouting radio shock jocks also use them for a very "in ya face" sound without any ambient sound being present.
Geezer, I'd be be surprised if you could make it distort, look elsewhere for that, it won't be the room.
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« Reply #72 on: Sep 24, 2017, 05:38AM »

+1, An application that the RE 20 is commonly used for is for miking up a single instrument like a sax inside very loud bands, behind an equally set of monitors without feeding back. Shouting radio shock jocks also use them for a very "in ya face" sound without any ambient sound being present.
Geezer, I'd be be surprised if you could make it distort, look elsewhere for that, it won't be the room.

YUUUUP!   Good!

...Geezer
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« Reply #73 on: Sep 24, 2017, 07:34AM »

Hold the fort!

After carefully listening to the recording I posted, clipping is not an issue. Therefore the mic is not an issue. Check. Neither is the mic input level into my wave editor. Check.

What I hear is some added reverb when I play loud. That's the dynamic of the room bleeding in. I need to deaden the room a little more and continue to play dead straight into the mic, which - as mentioned - is an art in itself.

...Geezer
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« Reply #74 on: Sep 24, 2017, 09:02AM »


I'm not quite sure what you don't like about your recordings so far, or what you want to change. You have to have a clear idea of what you want before you can place a value on the different changes or suggestions that we can offer. Maybe give us an idea of recordings that you'd like to emulate sonically and we can probably help more.

The only stereo recording style I think would produce usable results on a single source like trombone is something like mid-side processing or different mics and/or mic placements where the blend between the two can be used as an effect to get a more in depth sound or capture different information. I don't think stereo is worth going for in a home studio.


I want my recordings to have the same recording quality and accoustics as:

1. BIS "Unaccompanied" C. Lindberg
2. BIS "The Solitary Trombone" C. Lindberg

These are some of the most fantastic efforts in recording and they got a particular sound with just a few things:

1. A guy who knows how to record (Robert von Bahr)
2. A great room (Danderyds Gym)
3. 4 Neumann U89 mics, 2 in a stereo config, and two for the room
4. A great mic preamp



Now, I'm not delusional. I realize that, at most, a home studio can only have a good sound engineer and good equipment -  not a great space. I know I can never get a home studio to sound like those two CDs. But I want to get as close as possible with a combination of recording in a dead room and then adding the best digital space in post production. The closer I can get, the less it will matter once I start adding in premium sound libraries for my piano or string libraries to my tracks.

I actually want to create tracks that are of a professional quality. I have my own music and compositions that I'd love to put out on a CD or digital album. Mike Lake inspired me heavily. It's going to take a lot of time and work though.
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« Reply #75 on: Sep 24, 2017, 09:03AM »

I need to deaden the room a little more and continue to play dead straight into the mic, which - as mentioned - is an art in itself.

...Geezer

Try hang a duvet behind you to reduce the "early reflections" (standard term) bouncing back mixing with the Direct sound (st), causing "comb filtering" (st again). If you're playing on a wooden or non carpeted floor, put a rug under the mic stand. You don't have to overdo sound treatments, it's possible to overdo them and deaden the ER's which which no amount of fiddling with effects can put back.

I used to carry an 6'x8' sheet of plywood heavily varnished on one side and natural on the other, and a circular rug. The wood to liven a dead area, and the rug to tighten an over live one.
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« Reply #76 on: Sep 24, 2017, 09:24AM »


Now, I'm not delusional. I realize that, at most, a home studio can only have a good sound engineer and good equipment -  not a great space. I know I can never get a home studio to sound like those two CDs. But I want to get as close as possible with a combination of recording in a dead room and then adding the best digital space in post production. The closer I can get, the less it will matter once I start adding in premium sound libraries for my piano or string libraries to my tracks.

I actually want to create tracks that are of a professional quality. I have my own music and compositions that I'd love to put out on a CD or digital album. Mike Lake inspired me heavily. It's going to take a lot of time and work though.

Something to bear in mind as well is background noise from distant sounds that you never even knew existed until playback, it's a plague on acoustic music recording. Also .547 horns are made to project into an concert space, check out my comment to Geezerhorn in my last post about over dead rooms. Convolution reverbs can sound gorgeous, but get it wrong and you may end up with a dead tbn in a live space. The 2 elements need to be a good fit.
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« Reply #77 on: Sep 24, 2017, 09:27AM »

I want my recordings to have the same recording quality and accoustics as:

1. BIS "Unaccompanied" C. Lindberg
2. BIS "The Solitary Trombone" C. Lindberg

These are some of the most fantastic efforts in recording and they got a particular sound with just a few things:

1. A guy who knows how to record (Robert von Bahr)
2. A great room (Danderyds Gym)
3. 4 Neumann U89 mics, 2 in a stereo config, and two for the room
4. A great mic preamp



Now, I'm not delusional. I realize that, at most, a home studio can only have a good sound engineer and good equipment -  not a great space. I know I can never get a home studio to sound like those two CDs. But I want to get as close as possible with a combination of recording in a dead room and then adding the best digital space in post production. The closer I can get, the less it will matter once I start adding in premium sound libraries for my piano or string libraries to my tracks.

I actually want to create tracks that are of a professional quality. I have my own music and compositions that I'd love to put out on a CD or digital album. Mike Lake inspired me heavily. It's going to take a lot of time and work though.

I think you have a good concept, which is the best way to start on a project like that.

I have always tried to keep in mind that if I can get my solo track to sound like a million bucks, then with a dy-no-mite backing track, it should sound like 2 million bucks. You are on that path!

Try hang a duvet behind you to reduce the "early reflections" (standard term) bouncing back mixing with the Direct sound (st), causing "comb filtering" (st again). If you're playing on a wooden or non carpeted floor, put a rug under the mic stand. You don't have to overdo sound treatments, it's possible to overdo them and deaden the ER's which which no amount of fiddling with effects can put back.

I used to carry an 6'x8' sheet of plywood heavily varnished on one side and natural on the other, and a circular rug. The wood to liven a dead area, and the rug to tighten an over live one.

I have an indoor/outdoor carpet on my cement floor. I have some of the same carpet hung on some walls. I need to experiment with more. I may have to find a way to treat the unfinished ceiling as well. But I'll take it one step at a time until I am happy.

...Geezer
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« Reply #78 on: Sep 24, 2017, 09:58AM »

I want my recordings to have the same recording quality and accoustics as:

1. BIS "Unaccompanied" C. Lindberg
2. BIS "The Solitary Trombone" C. Lindberg


Great! Having a solid sound concept as your own recording engineer is just as important as having a solid sound concept as a player.  Everything you do from the beginning is going to either get the sound closer to what you want, or farther away. Nothing is neutral, every decision affects the sound. Digging deeper like you did and knowing about how Christian and Robert Von Barh got the sound that they did is a good first step, but as you pointed out, your home studio does not sound like Danderyds Gym and there's no treatment in the world that will get that sound. Presumably your T350 and 1C with your lips buzzing into them doesn't sound the same as Christian did on stage either.

What I'm hearing in those recordings if I was trying to recreate the sound is how specific the reverb needs to sound to emulate the hall. There's definitely a tone to the trail, and it's dynamic. It's not the same tone when he puts more energy into the space as when he's playing softly. I would focus on getting a dry sound that is clean in the low end. Mike does this "in the box" with EQ, though depending on the mic and the filtering options available to you, it could be quite simple.

I'd recommend, not knowing which mic you have, but that it's a condenser, a placement of about 16" to 2 ft in front of the bell, but off to the side, in line with your right shoulder. You still want it aimed at the bell such that the source to room sound is ratio is high, but you don't want to be picking up too much direct fuzz, or air sound in articulations. I'd shelf the low end down a couple db below roughly 200-240hz with a gentle Q setting, and low pass the signal around 12-13k. Tuning the tone of the reverb is going to be the hard part, I'm not familiar with Altiverb sorry. Pre59 brought up gain staging, which is going to be critical every time you have additional processing on the signal. The dynamics of the reverb are going to be affected by how much signal is going into the plugin, and you can compensate with the out levels of the verb to get the signal where you want it. You might have to add some slight compression before the verb to get it to respond how you want to.

I'd use some tape saturation and very subtle EQ after that for mastering, depending on how much is going on in the mix and what you have to deal with relative to the solo track, which is the most important part, you might leave these as a mastering stage on everything, or just apply it to the trombone sound.

Find the settings that work for you, as it'll be slightly different with your mic, your playing, your room etc. Good monitoring is key, and using a reference track from the Lindberg recordings is critical.

I would love for you to follow up when you get your studio set up, and I look forward to other suggestions.
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« Reply #79 on: Sep 24, 2017, 10:27AM »

To get a fantastic professional recording means that you will have to spring for a professional reverb system that the pro's use. There's a lot out there to choose from, but don't settle for less. I'm not aware of the altiverb, and it may be 100% professional. I just don't recognize it, that's all.

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« Reply #80 on: Sep 24, 2017, 10:42AM »

I estimated that Mike has about $10K worth of sound equipment. Is it worth if for us average home recording "artists"?

I think Dusty is getting a GREAT bang for his buck! We can, too.

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« Reply #81 on: Sep 24, 2017, 01:32PM »

I estimated that Mike has about $10K worth of sound equipment. Is it worth if for us average home recording "artists"?

I think Dusty is getting a GREAT bang for his buck! We can, too.

...Geezer

Thank you Geezer!

Yesterday, I experimented with the RealBand program to do more integration. I was right in that you don't need to take you BIAB files and create a WAV file at all. Open RealBand, and open up one of your BIAB files. It will take a couple of minutes to generate each track, but then in the end, you will have about 10 or 11 separate tracks from your BIAB file that can be mixed separately.

You then just record all of your audio files that you want. For me, it's just trombone and piano.

Then final mixdown, and export to a WAV file. 

 
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« Reply #82 on: Sep 24, 2017, 05:13PM »

Mike would be able to sound just as great using lesser gear.

Altiverb shouldn't be limiting Harrison any, it's plenty professional. I reckon it's just a learning curve, as is the problem with most software these days, worrying about adding features to be able to market and hook purchases instead of usability and interface.

A few other thoughts I had today:
Processing on just the reverb track isn't unheard of. A lot of times it can be useful to layer different reverbs, and process some of them, adjusting stereo width. We're recording mono here, but after the reverb it goes stereo. There's usually a width adjustment affecting the size of the field. It can be useful sometimes to bus the main signal into 3 different, and separate reverbs with different tone, damping, and stereo width. You might pan the original signal slightly off center. The main reverb, ie the loudest, should be the narrowest, so you don't get a weird "soloist surrounding you" kind of sound. Add a second reverb, at a far lower output level, though still driven the same on the input, but with different reflections and less highs and lows. A third reverb can be even lower in the mix, and affecting only part of the original signal, maybe with lots of compression or a telephone style eq. You'd want this to be barely perceptible to the listener, and very wide, with more focus on a mid range frequency, about 1.2-2k. Some very subtle chorus, or a muted delay on just this third reverb can add sparkle. You don't want to be able to hear this, it's just to enrich and liven the sound, making the virtual room seem more interesting and complex.
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« Reply #83 on: Sep 24, 2017, 05:44PM »

That is a very interesting concept and the possibilities seem endless. Thank you!

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« Reply #84 on: Sep 24, 2017, 07:15PM »

One thing I had thought of was having the unprocessed raw audio come through the mix, and the Altverb track set at 100% wet as a second track, and then adjusting the levels with the DAW.
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« Reply #85 on: Sep 25, 2017, 04:33AM »

I was going to go stereo, but I think I will detour from that and record with one mic for an experiment. I'll try copying the mono track over to two other tracks and tinker with EQ's and reverb on two of them, leaving one "raw". If we experiment like that, we will doubtless have to cut the gain on all three tracks or the combined effect will be much too strong.

I like his concept of having a different quality of sound on each track to make a very broad and vibrant sound when mixed down.

We should be careful to save the raw solo track first, though.

I have to disagree with his statement that Mike would sound AS good on lesser equipment. No one would. That's why there IS the best equipment out there for those who can afford it.

...Geezer
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« Reply #86 on: Sep 25, 2017, 05:47AM »

I remember on one of my trips to Nashville back in the 70's we went to Porter Wagoner's personal studio. What stuck out in my mind was he had a row of mics (at least 50) lined up against the wall on mic stands. Each mic was a different brand and model, no two alike.

I asked about why he had so many mics like that, and he said that in every recording session, they would go down the line and test each mic until they found the one that sounded the best for each singer. I guess when a singer made a return trip they could cut to the chase, and use the one they had before. But back in those days they didn't have the sound processing to change things up like we do now, so they basically got the sound by looking for the right mic.

 
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« Reply #87 on: Sep 25, 2017, 08:46AM »

I was going to go stereo, but I think I will detour from that and record with one mic for an experiment. I'll try copying the mono track over to two other tracks and tinker with EQ's and reverb on two of them, leaving one "raw". If we experiment like that, we will doubtless have to cut the gain on all three tracks or the combined effect will be much too strong.

Just to clarify, I meant that only one of the raw solo track would end up in the final mix, and to do additional processing/layering on just the wet reverb signals. Just to make the reverb more complex, if you're using a simpler style reverb. I've known more expensive reverb plugins that just do this layering and tweaking by default on certain presets to achieve a more vibrant and interesting sound. A convolution verb will be doing much more, and can get very complex sounds on it's own, though it's all just a means to an end. You would only have to turn down if the loudness of the reverb was pushing you up too high, but I end up setting the main wet signal around -20db from the dry, so it really isn't that big of a level push, as the additional reverbs are even lower than that.

I have to disagree with his statement that Mike would sound AS good on lesser equipment. No one would. That's why there IS the best equipment out there for those who can afford it.

Well... I have to disagree with your disagreement. Hopefully I can make a better argument.

The more expensive equipment is often bought because it makes it easier to get the sound that you want, not necessarily because it can get a sound that is impossible to get by other means, up to a certain point. Sometimes it's bought simply because that's what others are using, and you need to sound like the standard to sound "good". There is no best sound or setup, only different ones depending on how the finished product needs to be. It is all in how it conveys differences in performance. As you've heard yourself, different mic placement by a couple of inches or a slight angle or moving between multiple page charts will make more of a difference than a change in mic, if you have a reasonable quality microphone already. No expense spent on a microphone can FIX the sound if it was recorded in a way that isn't conducive to the sound you want to capture.

On your own playing, you are often much more discerning with regards to what you want to sound like, and will hear things that other listeners will not. Sometimes these factors are what drives an upgrade in gear, as it's easier to make good music if you're satisfied with how it sounds. But it's absolutely susceptible to diminishing returns, and there's so much processing available now in the box for free, that I can't imagine it would be unattainable to achieve a sound that is not noticeably different than one recorded with more expensive gear, provided that the basic signal integrity is there in the first place. It's just a difference in how you get to that sound, and how close you can get relatively simply with different gear, as opposed to introducing complex signal chain elements and emulation to achieve the same effect. You're working with a relatively simple waveform represented by a voltage that's quantified by a single number at a single point in time 44,100 or more times a second.

If you know what sound you desire, there are only so many changes you can make to the waveform that keep it in the realm of your trombone sound, and better playing, performance practices, mic technique and better sounding rooms will make more of a difference in the end recording than a couple thousand dollars more on a microphone.

I asked about why he had so many mics like that, and he said that in every recording session, they would go down the line and test each mic until they found the one that sounded the best for each singer. I guess when a singer made a return trip they could cut to the chase, and use the one they had before. But back in those days they didn't have the sound processing to change things up like we do now, so they basically got the sound by looking for the right mic.

This rings true, but if a singer was doing different styles or had a different vibe, or their vocals had improved since their last recordings, or their voice aged, or even just if other studio equipment had changed, I reckon that the preferred mic on the last trip might not be the best mic on this one, even if the vocalist insists. In that case, you do what they want anyways, but if you are your own engineer you have to consider everything. I bet often they wouldn't end up with the most expensive mic in the studio, so it's not as if the best equipment is only there for those that can afford it. Michael Jackson did thriller with the SM7b that's now "only" $400.

One thing I've learned recording others on different styles throughout this year is that there is no best mic for a given source even in all studio situations on the same song. E.g. if you change the drum sound, maybe you have to change the bass, and where the piano/guitar sits with that, and consequently you need a different sound on the vocals now. It can be a lot easier to have different microphones that suit the changes you want, but often basic free plugins are capable of a good enough sculpting of the sound if you learn how to use them and know what you want. Having different players on the session in the band will change how the vocalist needs to sound, unless you work backwards through the band starting from the vocals, though I haven't known any vocalists so far that want to work that way.

Often after extensive live performance the vocalist will have developed a certain mic technique with their handheld stage mic that works really well in maintaining the balance of the band and the vocals in the different sections of the different songs in a live situation where there's minimal processing. It can end up being a lot easier to balance the band in the end by just letting the vocalist who knows the band and the songs and how they play, a lot better than you do I might add, just "perform live" for you rather than setting up a condenser in front of them and spending hours adding compression and automation all over the track to make sure the important parts the band wants are coming out where they're supposed to.

In home studio, it can sometimes become a justification of the purchase. I can't remember exactly where I heard this or if I'm repeating it correctly but there's something along the lines of, "If you spent half as much on a microphone as you would've remodelling your bathroom, you darn well better be using it on everything you do, because chances are you spend more time in the bathroom than you do in front of the mic." Being consistent and controlling all the variables can make it clearer what effect the changes you make are having, but if you didn't start with a clear idea of what you wanted the sound to be, you're just constructing it as you go using what you have to work with. The studio professionals work with a sound they want, and then match gear to achieve that sound the easiest way they can. I wouldn't think there is a such thing as a best piece of gear, and definitely gear isn't better just because the price tag is higher. There are plenty of multi thousand dollar "custom" preamps that the part of the circuit affecting the color of the sound isn't very different from a $5 tube radio from the 40s.

If you had a list of the importance of things in your recordings, and in playing, the microphone is somewhere down in the list where the mouthpiece would be. It makes a difference which one you use, but if you use the same mouthpiece as your favorite player, it won't make you sound like him/her. You need the one that fits you and what you're trying to accomplish. Same with gear. If you don't know what you want from your sound, how can any mouthpiece/microphone be better than another? It's a means to an end, and there are infinitely many ways to get you there. You will still sound like you and you need to work with that, however it changes from day to day and song to song.
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« Reply #88 on: Sep 25, 2017, 09:01AM »

Okay guys. Good stuff all 'round!  Good!

I did some tinkering. I put another large rectangle of indoor/outdoor carpeting up on a remaining bare wall in my music studio. Then I did a recording by playing square into the mic, about 14" (or so) away. It made a difference. I don't hear the room dynamic bleeding into the solo track on louder passages. That is a distinct improvement.

Misunderstanding, I copied my solo track over to three tracks. I had to reduce the gain WAY down, but that's okay. All I did to the top track was to add some reverb. I ran the second track through a low-pass filter. To the third track, I added some EQ to take off some low, add a bit of middle and add some high. Then I mixed them all down with the accompaniment track.

Here it is: Stardust

You may think my solo is too prominent and/or the reverb too strong. Those are style points, as is the way I play. But I belief I have captured a higher fidelity recording.

OBTW: for new eyes on this thread, I took this hobby up when I retired a few years ago.

...Geezer
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« Reply #89 on: Sep 25, 2017, 03:43PM »

I guess Harrison is gone.  :(

Anyway, that book - "Home Recording For Dummies"; I didn't learn much. But one thing it did argue is that cheap cables either work or they don't and it would take a tech with very keen ears to hear any difference between cheap ones and "better" ones. So I'm siding with Dusty on this...

Since I use Audacity, I ordered "Audacity 101". I need to understand what all the different values for all the different settings on EQ and Reverb are supposed to do. And I think there is a whole lot more functionality I have no clue about. Also, that Dummies book mentioned to use whatever wave editor we like, regardless of all the hype.

So I guess there IS value in that Dummies book in that it will keep me from squandering money on things that will not help my efforts much, if any.

I'm basically happy with my home recording efforts, so everything from now on will be gravy on the cake. 

...Geezer
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« Reply #90 on: Sep 26, 2017, 01:10AM »

I tried to do some home recordings and this is how I do it. I make the background music with band in a box. I put it into my old cubase software. I have rather old computers both at home and in work, but I do it simple. The mics are rather cheap ones. At home its Apex 205, very good for the money. And I also use Shure 58 at work. Both my rooms are very dead so I record rather close to the mic. Before I had a bigger room and put the mic further away.

Then I use earphones and play with the background music. Sometimes there is problem listening both what I do and what the background music is. But mostly it goes OK. Then I put a little compression and reverb. Dont know if they are good but they works. Never tried EQ or the other effects.

Well, Im fare a way from knowing much about this but have found a way that works for my home use. In my experience the mic placement and the room is the most important factors. In a big hall like a church I found out that just two stereo mics (zoom) in rather long distance, can record nearly everything very nice. In a little room its more sensitive for mic placement. And of course if I one day sound **** out of the bell, there is not much to do other than wait for a better day.


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« Reply #91 on: Sep 26, 2017, 07:01AM »

I'm still here Geezer. I'm just doing a lot of listening. I won't be recording for a few months, because we have to move first. This is a great thread. I'll listen to your Starlight when I get some time on my monitors and not phone speakers.

I want to improve my ears and hear the differences between the recording quality of the BIS CDs and my feeble attempts. I have many great ideas, and some really insane ones (like recording the Rach Piano Concerto 2 with just piano and trombone) , but my end goal is to create a few professional level piano/trombone albums of the repertoire and some of my own music for that instrument combination. If I can pull that off, I want to get the vienna solo strings library and do some recordings with a digital chamber ensemble of the classical rep. It might well take me years and years, but I'll be better for trying it out. Sound engineering is very interesting!
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« Reply #92 on: Sep 26, 2017, 07:22AM »

I'm still here Geezer. I'm just doing a lot of listening. I won't be recording for a few months, because we have to move first. This is a great thread. I'll listen to your Starlight when I get some time on my monitors and not phone speakers.

I want to improve my ears and hear the differences between the recording quality of the BIS CDs and my feeble attempts. I have many great ideas, and some really insane ones (like recording the Rach Piano Concerto 2 with just piano and trombone) , but my end goal is to create a few professional level piano/trombone albums of the repertoire and some of my own music for that instrument combination. If I can pull that off, I want to get the vienna solo strings library and do some recordings with a digital chamber ensemble of the classical rep. It might well take me years and years, but I'll be better for trying it out. Sound engineering is very interesting!

Whew! I thought we lost you!

By "monitors", I hope you mean a decent set of headphones. I guess I date myself.  :/

Anyway, disregard my clumsiness in playing, I'm just learning this articulation, intonation, phrasing, style, timing thing. Focus on the quality of sound. I think it's pretty good for a home recording. And at this point, I believe the best thing I can do to get a better quality home recording is to continue on my playing/learning curve. Oh, and maybe something from the "Audacity 101" book on order.

I admire your aspirations! There are plenty of excellent examples of recitals of classical pieces with trombone and piano. It can work marvelously.

Good luck with your move. I would volunteer to help you, but you see - my back...

...Geezer
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« Reply #93 on: Oct 03, 2017, 02:49PM »

If anyone is using Audacity, then "The Book Of Audacity" is the one to consult, not the Dummies book. "The Book Of Audacity" is pretty thorough.

...Geezer
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« Reply #94 on: Oct 22, 2017, 09:36AM »

Well, just sold my town home! Looks like I'll be getting a single family home, possibly on the Air Force Academy!  :-0

Home studio, here I come!

PS, did you know that a lot of Alessi's non-orchestra recordings were made in his basement? ?!!

 :-0
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« Reply #95 on: Oct 22, 2017, 11:37AM »

 
Well, just sold my town home! Looks like I'll be getting a single family home, possibly on the Air Force Academy!  :-0

Home studio, here I come!

PS, did you know that a lot of Alessi's non-orchestra recordings were made in his basement? ?!!

 :-0

 Good!
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