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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentTechnology(Moderator: john sandhagen) Home Recording Studio Discussion
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #40 on: Sep 23, 2017, 07:34AM »

Geezer, you said:
"I have found that sometimes when I use BiaB to save it's selection to a wave file, the midi gets distorted."

I don't understand that. When I save the trax from BIAB to a wave file, it sounds good to me. How does midi get distorted?

Another thought, I haven't done this, but I bet Graham has and is an expert on this, and that is to open up Realband, open up a BIAB song, and then you should be able to be able to record your audio (trombone), then have complete mixing control over all the audio trax and BIAB instrument trax. Then create your final wav file.

Don't know  It just doesn't sound right at all to me sometimes on certain songs I try to save that way. It's the soloist I have let BiaB auto-generate that gets distorted. I may have - say, a flute selected - which sounds good when played, but comes out as a harsh something or other noise when I save it to a wave file, so I just don't do it anymore.

*************************************************************************************************************

Okay guys. Here goes and don't laugh too hard!!!!!!!!

My music studio It's supposed to be silent but you can hear me breathing, so take off your headphones!  :-0

Mouthpiece collection. lol

My recording contribution (Ira Nepus Collection for MMO)

Maybe upgrading my cables will help with the sound fidelity! Maybe learning how to play better will as well!  :cry:

...Geezer
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ddickerson

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« Reply #41 on: Sep 23, 2017, 07:43AM »

It's the soloist I have let BiaB auto-generate that gets distorted. I may have - say, a flute selected - which sounds good when played, but comes out as a harsh something or other noise when I save it to a wave file, so I just don't do it anymore.

Oh OK. I see what you mean now. I have never used the solo auto generate feature, and that's why I was confused. MyBad.

I'm ready now to listen to your trax!
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ddickerson

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« Reply #42 on: Sep 23, 2017, 07:56AM »

Sounds really good Geezer! I don't hear any cable issues so, in my opinion, save your money for other toys!
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #43 on: Sep 23, 2017, 08:26AM »

Sounds really good Geezer! I don't hear any cable issues so, in my opinion, save your money for other toys!

Thanks, man!

Those are cheapo 'Zon cables.

I may play around with the soundproofing in my studio a bit, adding some more deadening to walls and especially corners.

The way I record, I have to stay dead on the mic. When I move my bell to one side or the other - even just a bit, you can hear some room effect I don't like. It's especially tough on multi-page charts!

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #44 on: Sep 23, 2017, 08:33AM »

For the Pershing's Own first round audition, I recorded a few required excerpts. Mostly in an isolation room with a condenser mic 2 meters in front and 1.5 meters above, and altverb to create the digital space:

Simple Gifts

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLWHFjQUkxQmhNMjA/view?usp=drivesdk

Tuba Mirum:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLSVQtVndjbElpdkk/view?usp=drivesdk

Rolling Thunder:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLRXhuRTRpeTVLZm8/view?usp=drivesdk

IGSOY:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLX2RVZ2tKeG9pR1E/view?usp=drivesdk

Lohengrin:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLUVFuMVktM2ZNUUU/view?usp=drivesdk

Priest and the Knockhead (muted solo. It needed a lot of EQ to fix the tiny isolation room I used):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxlRSlkI4aCLdGdfekZDSkoxMlk/view?usp=drivesdk
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #45 on: Sep 23, 2017, 08:43AM »

I'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!
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T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
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« Reply #46 on: Sep 23, 2017, 09:01AM »

I'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!

Not aimed at you in particular, but home recording is a skill and discipline like any other. There's loads of books like this to get you going, and should give you some "sound" principles to work from.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Recording-Musicians-Dummies-Strong/dp/0764588842
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #47 on: Sep 23, 2017, 09:24AM »

Not aimed at you in particular, but home recording is a skill and discipline like any other. There's loads of books like this to get you going, and should give you some "sound" principles to work from.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Recording-Musicians-Dummies-Strong/dp/0764588842

Sounds reasonable. I found it on the US 'Zon and ordered it, along with some new running shoes. And b/c I run with a FitBit linked with Humana for rewards, I was able to use a $25 'Zon gift card.  Way cool

Thanks for the idea!

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #48 on: Sep 23, 2017, 09:34AM »

I have that book. It's pretty good and it has already helped me.
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"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
Pre59

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« Reply #49 on: Sep 23, 2017, 10:18AM »

I'd particularly appreciate any feedback regarding how I set up the reverb and the signal quality!

Not knowing what DAW you're using, I'd look for Male Vocal preset on your Reverbs to experiment with. In the meantime, here's something to be getting on with..

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/use-reverb-pro-1
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #50 on: Sep 23, 2017, 10:41AM »

So, that's not really feedback though... it's cool to put up info about reverb, but how about your thoughts on what you heard? Based on that article, it sounded like mud?

FWIW, I am using FL Studio as my DAW.

I always get self conscious posting recordings here, because the thread will be going strong, I'll post and then it goes mostly silent. :/
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"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
Geezerhorn

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« Reply #51 on: Sep 23, 2017, 11:03AM »

So, that's not really feedback though... it's cool to put up info about reverb, but how about your thoughts on what you heard?

I always get self conscious posting recordings here, because the thread will be going strong, I'll post and then it goes mostly silent. :/

What I heard is terrific technique, but the recording quality is meh at best. I can tell you have an excellent sound, but your recordings are not doing you proud in that department, IMO. Welcome to MY world! So I guess that is why you started up this thread? I'm glad you did. Even if this thread goes dead now, it still has had dome excellent contributions that merit re-reading and probably even saving.

Dude! You aren't playing a bass trombone!  Evil

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #52 on: Sep 23, 2017, 11:11AM »

I started it up for everyone. I've learned now that my recording setup blows.

So far we've seen a ton of different setups. I'm digging it!
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"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
Geezerhorn

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« Reply #53 on: Sep 23, 2017, 11:25AM »

I started it up for everyone. I've learned now that my recording setup blows.

So far we've seen a ton of different setups. I'm digging it!

I am as well.

If I manage to learn anything about home recording as I go along, I'll make a mental to note to post it here in the future. It shouldn't be too hard to find this thread. In fact, I'll bookmark it.

One thing we need to be careful about is winnowing information about pro studio recording from home recording. I mean, let's face it - money IS an object. So is space at home. So is education & training. We don't have a masters degree in sound engineering. That is why I am hopeful that the book Pre59 suggested will help. After all, it IS called home recording in it's title.

Just by being involved in the process, I learn new things all the time about BiaB, Audacity and home recording in general. So at this point, I am not expecting a light switch to go on. There is enough info in this thread that you should be able to come up with a game plan for improvement. I have. I think I am going to replace my cables anyway, whether they need it or not. That will definitely be one link in the chain that I can check a box for and never give it another thought. If I can tweak my recording sound quality another 10%, I would be very happy.

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #54 on: Sep 23, 2017, 01:30PM »

If my recording quality is subpar, I wonder if it's because of my mic or because of room quality?
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"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
Geezerhorn

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« Reply #55 on: Sep 23, 2017, 01:48PM »

From your first post: "Altverb as the main reverb plugin, which puts the mono source trombone recording at a specified place in a digital hall, and outputs beautiful stereo sound with reverb."

FWIW: I wouldn't run my solo track through a reverb at home in real time while recording. Reverb can always be added later. It might be too much, along with whatever room dynamics you have. Try another recording without it. In fact, try another recording capturing your raw sound as much as possible by taking the room dynamic out of it by playing right into the mic. You will probably have to adjust your mic gain way down. In your case, your raw sound should be pretty darn good; so good you might not even need to EQ for the mic.

Once you get a good raw sound, you can tinker with other filters. But my little experience is that less is more. By the time I have run my solo track through an EQ, a low-pass filter and finally a reverb - it sounds like mud and I just go back to the raw sound with a little wee bit of reverb.

If we were really, really into this - and I mean in a super-nerd tech way - then we would know how to tinker with ALL the EQ settings and ALL other settings for ALL other filters to tweak out or augment the EXACT freaks that WE as individual players need. But until then, we recording novices tend to use filters to hit the solo track with sledge hammers, hoping for a finely-crafted gold chain.

...Geezer
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M.R.Tenor

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« Reply #56 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:01PM »

Okay I'll bite. These are all really old recordings, just what I found saved in the email app on my phone.

These two were recorded with a Sennheiser e835 dynamic mic, sounds like a more open SM57. Placed about a 16" in front to the bell, center of the living room, not my current recording space. Straight into audacity, with a little corrective cut in the EQ on the highs. These were for a student that asked for an example, so one take rough recording.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxU1vsZtb-CeWRxUFJPZ05xMVE/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxU1vsZtb-CdGF2SFd2UFcyMmc/view?usp=drivesdk

I think it's good to show that your setup doesn't have to be complicated, or expensive.

This next one was a little more recent, but still with the same mic and room, this time placed a little closer. My mic technique was not great and you can hear I was waving the bell around a little. The biggest thing you'll notice on this one is the reverb. I believe I was using a free TDR plugin and the free version of Studio One. No EQ because of the reverb. I had it set to cut the frequencies of the room resonances on the reverb trail, so the digital reverb wasn't adding any tubbiness. I have a really bad room resonance around A at the top of the staff, and one octave above that. The stereo spread could be better on this one.

I think the reverb might've been overdone, but I was going for a stage sound. You've got to cover up your playing deficiencies somehow :D. The playing on this one wasn't as smooth as it could've been.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxU1vsZtb-CUTA5WDRQYml4X1k/view?usp=drivesdk
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #57 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:27PM »

Geezer, I did add the reverb after I was done recording.

I wonder if it is the room. Maybe I should record in stereo?
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"My technique is as good as Initial D"
T-396A - Griego 1C
88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
Geezerhorn

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« Reply #58 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:37PM »

Geezer, I did add the reverb after I was done recording.

I wonder if it is the room. Maybe I should record in stereo?

Okay. You have taken that out of the equation. Now take the room out by playing right straight into the mic, about maybe 8-16" or so away. You will have to experiment. I know you don't like to play into it that close but do it anyway. Just make very short test recordings until you have the mic at the right distance and angle. Find your sweet spot for that room. Don't initially raise or lower the mic. Play straight into it to get your bearings. And when you find the spot, you might find that even moving the bell sideways a little bit will change the sound - usually for the worse. So you will need to practice playing straight into the mic.

Of course, the other option is to change where you record. But even then, you will have to experiment to find that sweet spot and stick on it. Fortunately, in a larger room where the room dynamics are super, that sweet spot expands.

I wouldn't record in stereo until I had a good monophonic recording procedure, appropriate for the room.

...Geezer
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« Reply #59 on: Sep 23, 2017, 03:43PM »

Posting so I can follow the thread. Interesting stuff!  Good!

I haven't gotten into home recording yet - although it's a possible path in life.  :) I somehow landed a job as a Controls Engineer for my day gig, so a lot of the skills I use there overlap with recording. At least, I think they do.  Don't know
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