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The Trombone ForumTeaching & LearningPractice Room(Moderator: blast) How can I solidify and increase my range?
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trb420
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« on: Oct 01, 2017, 03:28PM »

I have figured out how to play high, and my range tops out at an F currently. Long term goal is the Bb. How do I make this happen?
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BGuttman
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 01, 2017, 05:37PM »

There's no shortcut to upper range.

Emory Remington had an exercise called "Security in the Upper Register".  The original Remington exercise went to Bb above middle C in 1st position, but you can extend it.

You start in 7th position.  Seems upper partials are easier to hit there.  Play an arpeggio: E, G#, B, E (F, G#, A, B, C#, D, E).  Note that I have extended to additional partials.  Some may be easier than others.  Add additional notes one at a time as you are able to play the arpeggio in all positions up to 1st (Bb, D, F, Bb, C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb).  You will find the arpeggio "poops out" as you go from 7th to 1st.  That's where your limit is.  Try for the next note, but only 3 times during a session.  Do not do this two days in a row -- you need to let the muscles recover from the exertion.

I've been kind of vague because I don't know which Bb you are trying to get to.  The original Remington would get you to Bb 4 lines above the bass staff.  But you may be trying to get to Bb 8 lines and a space above the bass staff (a note not too many of us can reach).  If it's the latter, good luck.  You won't get much call to play it bit you certainly will tick off the trumpets. ;-)
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Bruce Guttman
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hyperbolica
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 01, 2017, 06:03PM »

We ought to have a sticky for stuff like this.
First, as Bruce said, "which Bb?"
Second, I wouldn't begin to tell you what to do. But I'll tell you what I do.
Scales.
Arbans interval studies
Freebuzzing focus on aperture
Play real book tunes up an octave.
Get a teacher and stop asking people on the internet.
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bigbassbone1

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« Reply #3 on: Oct 01, 2017, 06:10PM »

We out to have a sticky for stuff like this.
first, as Bruce said, "which Bb?"
Second, I wouldn't begin to tell you what to do. But I'll tell you what I do.
Scales.
Arbans interval studies
freebuzzing focus on aperture
playreal book tunes up an octave.
Get a teacjer and stop asking people on the internet

I don't think asking people on the internet is necessarily a bad thing....  Don't know occasionally someone contributes a new way of thinking that is useful for others and not just the OP. I have taken away the occasional nugget of gold that came from someone I didnt expect.
It's not always common but I don't think people should be discouraged from asking questions.
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 01, 2017, 06:49PM »

The comedy team Monty Phython addressed a similar problem in the 1970s when asked how to play the flute. The answer was quite simple: You blow in one end, and move your fingers up and down the outside of the instrument.

The answer how to play the trombone should be exactly the same, except for the fingers part. There, another answer from the internet.
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 01, 2017, 06:49PM »

The way to do it is to just play high stuff until you either figure out how to do it correctly, or engrain horrible, teeth bending habits into your playing.

I advocate expanding the lower register as far as you can, and using that concept and embouchure as the basis for the upper register, but then again you want a Bb5, but I can't play higher than F#5   so what do I know?

I think everyone can play up to C5   with proper teaching and practice. I don't think that everyone can play passably much higher than that, even with practice. Sure, many people can. Every pro can. But I'd say the numbers are much lower if you don't look at pros.

Like running. Every pro sprinter can get to 100M in around 10 seconds. Almost no amateur sprinters can, and the ones that can do it in college mostly go pro.

A high C is nothing. It's like running 100M in 14 seconds. That high Bb though...

or on second thought:

http://youtu.be/AkauY6LRx2E
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 01, 2017, 07:11PM »

I don't think asking people on the internet is necessarily a bad thing....  Don't know occasionally someone contributes a new way of thinking that is useful for others and not just the OP. I have taken away the occasional nugget of gold that came from someone I didnt expect.
It's not always common but I don't think people should be discouraged from asking questions.
The best advice is to get a teacher, and if he has a teacher, he shouldn't be asking people on the internet. Why have a teacher if you're just going to allow some random stranger to give likely contradictory advice? I agree we shouldn't discourage people from asking questions, but the answer to this question is only valid if its tailored to him, and none of us know him. Even though each person giving advice wants to be helpful, the net effect is just more confusion, and the inevitable "throw a lot of $#!+, go with what sticks" is simply not very helpful in narrowing down a solution.
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Pre59

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« Reply #7 on: Oct 02, 2017, 07:45AM »

I'm fortunate in having a good high range from the off, everything else, not so good..
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 02, 2017, 07:49AM »

I'm fortunate in having a good high range from the off, everything else, not so good..

He's just being modest, folks!

While it's true, nothing can take the place of a good instructor, this might be of some interest.

A recent discussion on high range articulation

...Geezer
« Last Edit: Oct 02, 2017, 12:51PM by Geezerhorn » Logged
Pre59

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« Reply #9 on: Oct 02, 2017, 12:32PM »


I'm fortunate in having a good high range from the off, everything else, not so good..

At the time, because of the idea that a high range at an early stage may have indicated a certain degree of competence, more important issues weren't dealt with and these took years to fix.

I would have happily lost some high range for some more basic skills back then.
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 02, 2017, 01:08PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSAIODjaPMo

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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 02, 2017, 01:58PM »

The best advice is to get a teacher, and if he has a teacher, he shouldn't be asking people on the internet. Why have a teacher if you're just going to allow some random stranger to give likely contradictory advice? I agree we shouldn't discourage people from asking questions, but the answer to this question is only valid if its tailored to him, and none of us know him. Even though each person giving advice wants to be helpful, the net effect is just more confusion, and the inevitable "throw a lot of $#!+, go with what sticks" is simply not very helpful in narrowing down a solution.

Yes of course a teacher is the best scenario without a doubt. I think most, if not all people know this, and will listen to their teacher intently as their main source for guidance. However, I genuinely believe curious students willing to try any and all ideas though have the best chance of success. They can even take an idea thrown out here to their teacher and have their teacher explain why it is or isn't helpful.
Sometimes it can be good to know for sure that an idea is DEFINITELY bad, but I don't think there is anything wrong with exploration in the practice room.
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 03, 2017, 01:36PM »

I should clarify. I top out at F5 and woukd like to hit the Bb above it
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 03, 2017, 07:38PM »

Trumpet Herald maybe?
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 03, 2017, 09:33PM »

Play absolutely as high as you can every other day, with good fundamentals, air support and not too much pressure.  Don't injure yourself, but it should hurt a little. 

Consult a good teacher/professional player while doing this.

Also...why do you want to play that high?  Have you ever encountered literature that is written above f5?  Are you hitting that "trb420" while you do this?

How's your bass trombone playing?  Your pitch from Bb4 to that F5?  These things will serve you in a professional career much more than your range above an F5. 

Also do you have a Shires Vintage 11C (pre-Pickett) that you are selling?  I'm looking for one.


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trb420
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 07, 2017, 03:02PM »

Play absolutely as high as you can every other day, with good fundamentals, air support and not too much pressure.  Don't injure yourself, but it should hurt a little. 

Consult a good teacher/professional player while doing this.

Also...why do you want to play that high?  Have you ever encountered literature that is written above f5?  Are you hitting that "trb420" while you do this?

How's your bass trombone playing?  Your pitch from Bb4 to that F5?  These things will serve you in a professional career much more than your range above an F5. 

Also do you have a Shires Vintage 11C (pre-Pickett) that you are selling?  I'm looking for one.




Low range is decent but I exclusively play tenor (and my pitch is spot-on). I just want to be able to play that high, range gas always been a long-term goal for me.
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 07, 2017, 03:46PM »

I have figured out how to play high, and my range tops out at an F currently. Long term goal is the Bb. How do I make this happen?

If you already have a good high F that you can play in a musical context, and importantly not just as a freak note, the others will follow with time and steady practice.
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hyperbolica
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 07, 2017, 06:37PM »

I walked in to my first lesson with John Swallow and as part of his initial evaluation, I ripped out a crystal clear high F. His reaction was "you can take your high F and 5 cents and go get yourself a cup of coffee". This was when a cup of coffee was 5 cents. In other words, a high F on its own isn't worth anything. It takes more than a high F to make a musician. Forget the Bb, its worth even less than the F. Work on time, intonation, tone, musicality, reading, lip slurs, phrasing, articulation, improvisation, etc. Eventually the horn will start paying you back for that coffee.
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trb420
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 08, 2017, 12:15AM »

I walked in to my first lesson with John Swallow and as part of his initial evaluation, I ripped out a crystal clear high F. His reaction was "you can take your high F and 5 cents and go get yourself a cup of coffee". This was when a cup of coffee was 5 cents. In other words, a high F on its own isn't worth anything. It takes more than a high F to make a musician. Forget the Bb, its worth even less than the F. Work on time, intonation, tone, musicality, reading, lip slurs, articulation, improvisation, etc. Eventually the horn will start paying you back for that coffee.

And yes I recognize that I'm not looking to expand my range to the extremes so that I can be a better musician. I simply want to be a better trombonist. If (hypothetically) two players were exactly equal in technique, musicality, sound, etc, but one's range was larger than the other's, would that not make him the superior player?

I don't mean to say that I focus obsessively over range to the point of neglecting the other equally if not more important aspects of playing. But range has always been an enigma, sometimes improving rapidly and sometimes regressing, while I could more consistently rely on basic practice to improve the aspects that you mentioned.
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 17, 2017, 12:41PM »

I should clarify. I top out at F5 and woukd like to hit the Bb above it

Assuming you can play consistently with great sound across dynamics from soft (pp) to loud (ff) over a range from F1 to F5, why on Earth would you want to play any higher than F5?

Maybe to increase your confidence at F5?
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