Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1088276 Posts in 71902 Topics- by 19302 Members - Latest Member: Westport281
Jump to:  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Minimal bracing & structural integrity?  (Read 547 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ChadA
*
Offline Offline

Location: Ohio
Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 320

View Profile WWW
« on: Oct 12, 2017, 07:45AM »

This is question is directed more at our resident craftsmen/technicians:  with all the efforts some companies make to minimize F attachment bracing, are you seeing any increase to damage and repairs to the bell section as a result?  I prefer horns with "edge" style bracing and nothing attached to the bell besides the single flange & tuning slide receiver.  Are these horns more susceptible to certain kinds of damage as a result, though?
Logged

Chad Arnow, DMA
Bass Trombone, Dayton Philharmonic Orchestra
Assistant Professor of Trombone, University of Dayton
http://chadarnow.com/
http://go.udayton.edu/music
hyperbolica
*
Offline Offline

Location: Eastern US
Joined: Oct 19, 2014
Posts: 1495

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Oct 12, 2017, 09:44AM »

I'm not a tech, but I have a  Kanstul 1662i which has very little bell section bracing compared to an Edwards or Greenhoe. It makes for a much lighter horn. There's enough functional weight on a double without adding non-functional weight.

The bracing on the 1662i is all short, just connecting valve tubing to neckpipe or bell. Much lighter than the alternative. I've never had or heard of structural problems.

Logged
Full Pedal Trombonist

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jun 16, 2009
Posts: 2986

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Oct 12, 2017, 10:23AM »

Another non-tech here. I have a non-modular and a modular horn that both have less bracing. The modular horn feels like it could be less structurally sound and the non-modular feels just lighter. But both play fine and the designs work so I donít worry.
Logged

We don't just embrace insanity here, we feel it up, french kiss it and then buy it a drink.
blast

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: scotland
Joined: Jul 26, 2001
Posts: 6995
"Bass/Contrabass trombone, Scottish Opera."


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Oct 12, 2017, 11:26AM »

When I build up or modify horns, I go toward minimal bracing. That does make them more liable to damage in some cases. Braces, in the right place, can enhance the blow of a horn.... you need at least enough to keep things stable, but positioning is everything.

Chris Stearn
Logged

Still cannot think of anything better to do. Back on an old 1 1/2G again !
sterb225
*
Offline Offline

Location: Long Island - NY
Joined: Nov 2, 2011
Posts: 73

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Oct 12, 2017, 11:54AM »

There are some videos of Ben van Dijk working on brace placement for his contra at Thein, fascinating to see the process and effects around what most of us would regard as a trivial thing.
Logged

Olds Ambassador
Bach 36G LT
Edwards T-396A / Griego Alessi 1C
Bach 50B2 w/ Willson Bell
hyperbolica
*
Offline Offline

Location: Eastern US
Joined: Oct 19, 2014
Posts: 1495

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Oct 12, 2017, 12:25PM »

There are some videos of Ben van Dijk working on brace placement for his contra at Thein, fascinating to see the process and effects around what most of us would regard as a trivial thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqsiE-C2Kco
Great theme music too!
Logged
ChadA
*
Offline Offline

Location: Ohio
Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 320

View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: Oct 13, 2017, 06:54AM »

There are some videos of Ben van Dijk working on brace placement for his contra at Thein, fascinating to see the process and effects around what most of us would regard as a trivial thing.

I don't regard it as trivial at all.  :)  I think it makes a difference.  I'm more concerned with what we're giving up to get that improvement.
Logged

Chad Arnow, DMA
Bass Trombone, Dayton Philharmonic Orchestra
Assistant Professor of Trombone, University of Dayton
http://chadarnow.com/
http://go.udayton.edu/music
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51246
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Oct 13, 2017, 07:20AM »

I don't regard it as trivial at all.  :)  I think it makes a difference.  I'm more concerned with what we're giving up to get that improvement.

Reduced bracing means the horn is more delicate.  For some playing this is not a big deal.  But for people dancing with trombones, or on a Football Field this can be a problem.  You don't want to have your trombone wobbling out of shape while you are flinging it around.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
john sandhagen
curmudgeon... semitrained
*
*
Offline Offline

Location: claremont, ca, usa
Joined: Jul 31, 2000
Posts: 6742

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Oct 13, 2017, 07:38AM »

Bracing and connections make a huge difference.  IMO it's not what's right, but what's right for the player.  25 years ago I lightened slides weekly, today it's pretty rare.  People used to ask if I could take off ALL the braces...now they ask more about which one does what.  It's a balancing act. 

Structurally it's also a balancing act.  Given that no instrument with an F attachment should march, your use should be taken into account...tailored to a specific hall, freelance, gigbag, dancing, pit, air travel,...all should give you pause when you consider an specific design.

Logged

John Sandhagen,
the Boneyard

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
JohnL
Edge Monster

*
Offline Offline

Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: Aug 1, 2004
Posts: 7224

View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: Oct 13, 2017, 08:38AM »

I suppose this is kinda obvious, but...

The less bracing you have, the more important it is to keep your tuning slides properly maintained so you don't have to apply any more force than is necessary to make adjustments.
Logged

Question change.
Embrace progress.
Take the time to learn the difference.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: