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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Opioid crisis fueled by drug industry and Congress
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Andrew Meronek

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« on: Oct 15, 2017, 06:39PM »

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-dea-agent-opioid-crisis-fueled-by-drug-industry-and-congress/

Ah, typical politics as usual. It’s stuff like this that makes voters feel like they have no voice, when Congressmen clearly act against their interests with no backlash.

If our venerable President Trump would really “clean the swamp” and deal with shenanigans like this, I’d be on board. I don’t think he cares, though.
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 15, 2017, 07:25PM »

He only cares if it lines his pockets.
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 16, 2017, 08:11AM »

Someone said that when the black community was ravaged by crack, it was a criminal law problem. Now, when the white community is having an opioid crisis, it's a public health issue.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 16, 2017, 08:49AM »

It was the same with Crack and regular Cocaine.  The Black community used Crack and were despicable criminals.  The White community used Cocaine and it was a fashionable drug.  There were many more arrests for Crack than for Cocaine, although there were probably a lot more Cocaine users.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 16, 2017, 10:12AM »

It was the same with Crack and regular Cocaine.  The Black community used Crack and were despicable criminals.  The White community used Cocaine and it was a fashionable drug.  There were many more arrests for Crack than for Cocaine, although there were probably a lot more Cocaine users.

It's also the main reason cannabis is illegal--it was popular in the Black community, particularly musicians as I understand it, (When hasn't a popular drug been particularly popular with musicians?) so by association it was seen as scary/threatening (What if they get all hopped up on [whatever] ... !) Hence Reefer Madness madness.
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 16, 2017, 10:58AM »

Interesting sidelight.  When Glenn Miller was looking for musicians for his Air Force band, he'd look for tents where there were cannabis plants.  Those musicians were the "swingers" he wanted.  Note that cannabis was not only popular with Black musicians -- it was also popular with White ones.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 16, 2017, 03:21PM »

There were a ton of white people smoking marijuana at my 99% white Lutheran college.

How has it not gotten legalized yet?

I suspect the reason a legalize-it-because-of-the-white-users movement hasn't succeeded for marijuana is that it's pretty invisible to use.

Unless someone searches you and finds it there aren't many tell-tales signs like desperate finances and addiction behavior and ruined health to out you.

White people rarely get searched but black people get searched just because they were out driving their car.

It's effectively legal for white people already.

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« Reply #7 on: Oct 16, 2017, 03:54PM »

To be clear, this story is not about illegal drugs like cocaine, crank, or marijuana; it is about legal drugs sold illegally (i.e. prescription drugs without proper prescription controls) and then effectively legally thanks to a pliant Congress and lobbying.
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Andrew Meronek

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« Reply #8 on: Oct 16, 2017, 04:09PM »

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/americas-heroin-epidemic/trump-will-look-his-drug-czar-nominee-following-report-n811121

Seeing Trump so far, I predict he will say this is all fake news.
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« Reply #9 on: Oct 17, 2017, 01:33AM »

It was the same with Crack and regular Cocaine.  The Black community used Crack and were despicable criminals.  The White community used Cocaine and it was a fashionable drug.  There were many more arrests for Crack than for Cocaine, although there were probably a lot more Cocaine users.

The other injustice was that the penalties for crack were much higher than for regular cocaine, even though they were pharmaceutically the same.
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 17, 2017, 02:06AM »

FEYNTANOL   ////MORPHINE //OXYCOTIN///  VICODEN //CODINE
 --------AFGHANISTAN --------------CIA--------------------
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 17, 2017, 06:36AM »

Interesting sidelight.  When Glenn Miller was looking for musicians for his Air Force band, he'd look for tents where there were cannabis plants.  Those musicians were the "swingers" he wanted.  Note that cannabis was not only popular with Black musicians -- it was also popular with White ones.

I always did think military musicians should be exempted from the mandatory drug testing, but they're not.

Old timers have told me stories of getting high on the band bus while the lifers up front were unaware.  Come to think of it, it may have been an Air Force guy talking. 
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« Reply #12 on: Oct 17, 2017, 06:48AM »

Looks like the drug czar nominee is out...

Quote
Rep.Tom Marino has informed me that he is withdrawing his name from consideration as drug czar. Tom is a fine man and a great Congressman!


... and back to the House where he can still do damage.

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« Reply #13 on: Oct 17, 2017, 01:23PM »

The other injustice was that the penalties for crack were much higher than for regular cocaine, even though they were pharmaceutically the same.


If I remember correctly, the penalty for crack was made higher because it was so much more dangerous than regular cocaine.
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 17, 2017, 02:00PM »

I always did think military musicians should be exempted from the mandatory drug testing, but they're not.

Old timers have told me stories of getting high on the band bus while the lifers up front were unaware.  Come to think of it, it may have been an Air Force guy talking. 

I got high on the band bus coming back from a gig when I was in the Jazz Knights of West Point. There were a number of smokers in the band then.

I failed a urinalysis test...6 months before I was getting out. Still they wanted to boot me. I faced a stressful board of officers hearing (similar to a court martial).

Because of complete support from the commander, section leader, and others, I managed to get out with my honorable discharge.
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 17, 2017, 02:38PM »

If I remember correctly, the penalty for crack was made higher because it was so much more dangerous than regular cocaine.

That was the excuse, but it's not true. Both forms of cocaine are identical, pharmaceutically. The difference between them is the removal of hydrochloride from crack, which makes it smokeable.

The delivery system does make a difference--smoking cocaine produces a quicker and shorter lasting high than snorting it, and the high is more pronounced because the effects are less gradual. However even this difference does not justify more severe penalties, because powdered cocaine can be dissolved and injected, with the same result.

The difference in penalties was ridiculously large, and there was never any justification for it. It's easier to send poor city kids to prison than Hollywood stars. With the latter we cheer them on as People magazine tells the inspiring story of their recovery.
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 22, 2017, 07:15PM »

From Esquire:

"The descendants of Mortimer and Raymond Sackler, a pair of psychiatrist brothers from Brooklyn, are members of a billionaire clan with homes scattered across Connecticut, London, Utah, Gstaad, the Hamptons, and, especially, New York City. It was not until 2015 that they were noticed by Forbes, which added them to the list of America’s richest families. The magazine pegged their wealth, shared among twenty heirs, at a conservative $14 billion. (Descendants of Arthur Sackler, Mortimer and Raymond’s older brother, split off decades ago and are mere multi-millionaires.) To a remarkable degree, those who share in the billions appear to have abided by an oath of omertà: Never comment publicly on the source of the family’s wealth.

That may be because the greatest part of that $14 billion fortune tallied by Forbes came from OxyContin, the narcotic painkiller regarded by many public-health experts as among the most dangerous products ever sold on a mass scale."
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 23, 2017, 04:52PM »

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WHO CARES   ?????????????NOBODY ---PASS THE PILLS  !!!!!!!!!!


From Esquire:

"The descendants of Mortimer and Raymond Sackler, a pair of psychiatrist brothers from Brooklyn, are members of a billionaire clan with homes scattered across Connecticut, London, Utah, Gstaad, the Hamptons, and, especially, New York City. It was not until 2015 that they were noticed by Forbes, which added them to the list of America’s richest families. The magazine pegged their wealth, shared among twenty heirs, at a conservative $14 billion. (Descendants of Arthur Sackler, Mortimer and Raymond’s older brother, split off decades ago and are mere multi-millionaires.) To a remarkable degree, those who share in the billions appear to have abided by an oath of omertà: Never comment publicly on the source of the family’s wealth.

That may be because the greatest part of that $14 billion fortune tallied by Forbes came from OxyContin, the narcotic painkiller regarded by many public-health experts as among the most dangerous products ever sold on a mass scale."
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 17, 2017, 07:13PM »

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/whistleblowers-dea-attorneys-went-easy-on-mckesson-the-countrys-largest-drug-distributor/

You know, I think I've called it: Washington doesn't give a crap about people dying. This is still a thing.
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 18, 2017, 07:33AM »

There are many reports of overdose deaths from both prescription opiods and heroin.  It is often referred to as an epidemic.

The description of the heroin deaths includes death so sudden the needle remains in the arm.

That is not a new phenomenon. 

This book:
https://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Narcotics-Stimulants-Depressants-Hallucinogens/dp/0316153400

described it in 1972 and discussed the possibility that true heroin overdose might be rare to nonexistent.  The theory was that death by overdose is typically a slow progressive depression of functioning that is in stark contrast to the needle-in-the-arm often described, and that the actual amount of heroin required to kill an addict with a high tolerance would be very difficult to find.  The idea was that there was probably some unknown allergic reaction that had not been recognized or studied.   
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 18, 2017, 10:18AM »

One severe problem is the synthetics Fentanil and Carfentanil, which are much stronger than regular heroin.  These are often laced into heroin and an unsuspecting user can easily overdose using his regular amount.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 18, 2017, 10:23AM »

One severe problem is the synthetics Fentanil and Carfentanil, which are much stronger than regular heroin.  These are often laced into heroin and an unsuspecting user can easily overdose using his regular amount.

I am not sure that is the case.  LD50s are huge for tolerant addicts. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 18, 2017, 10:26AM »

But these two are MUCH stronger than heroin.  Sometimes 100 to 500 times.  I don't care how much tolerance there is for regular heroin; a dose of these can be killers (literally).
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Bruce Guttman
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Andrew Meronek

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« Reply #23 on: Dec 18, 2017, 03:20PM »

There are many reports of overdose deaths from both prescription opiods and heroin.  It is often referred to as an epidemic.

The description of the heroin deaths includes death so sudden the needle remains in the arm.

That is not a new phenomenon. 

This book:
https://www.amazon.com/Consumers-Narcotics-Stimulants-Depressants-Hallucinogens/dp/0316153400

described it in 1972 and discussed the possibility that true heroin overdose might be rare to nonexistent.  The theory was that death by overdose is typically a slow progressive depression of functioning that is in stark contrast to the needle-in-the-arm often described, and that the actual amount of heroin required to kill an addict with a high tolerance would be very difficult to find.  The idea was that there was probably some unknown allergic reaction that had not been recognized or studied.   

Then, is it of greater concern to count people getting addicted to these by doctors?
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