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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Republicans standing up saying enough is enough
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francischap
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« Reply #20 on: Oct 25, 2017, 09:01AM »

DD, you seem to have missed nearly all my points which were based on the man's unstable and damaged character. As for him being attacked first it seems to me that he does unbelievably crass things out of the blue and is then not so much attacked, but questioned about these decisions. He doesn't fight his corner in an adult way, but the toys come out of the pram. This is not just unseemly, but dangerous. He reacts like a child. Any opinion that doesn't agree with his is fake news.
Can you seriously tell me that you would hold him up as a good example for your children to follow?
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elmsandr

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« Reply #21 on: Oct 25, 2017, 09:36AM »

There is certainly many reasons that contribute to poll numbers, but Obama contributed to most of the divisiveness during his term. Of course the media sucked up to him, so he didn't have much to respond to anyway. Plus, when someone did attack him, the MSM attacked back on his behalf.

The MSM never defends Trump, just like they never defended Bush or Reagan.

Nobody made more bad policy than Obama. That's why Trump has to deal with Iran. Obama didn't do anything to control NKorea during his term either.


North Korea first successfully tested a Nuke in 2006.  Why didn't then Senator Obama step in?

Maybe it was because Bush thought 'we can do better' and largely scrapped the deal with North Korea from the '90s? Does that rhyme a bit with the current scenario?

Maybe you know very little about what you type, eh?

And of course, you like that he fights back.  You don't even care if he fights back with obvious proven lies.  But it makes you feel good, so it is good.

Cheers,
Andy
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« Reply #22 on: Oct 25, 2017, 09:49AM »

DD, you seem to have missed nearly all my points which were based on the man's unstable and damaged character. As for him being attacked first it seems to me that he does unbelievably crass things out of the blue and is then not so much attacked, but questioned about these decisions. He doesn't fight his corner in an adult way, but the toys come out of the pram. This is not just unseemly, but dangerous. He reacts like a child. Any opinion that doesn't agree with his is fake news.
Can you seriously tell me that you would hold him up as a good example for your children to follow?

I think all off DDs children are grown.  They can make up their own minds about him.
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francischap
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« Reply #23 on: Oct 25, 2017, 10:06AM »

Grandchildren then........
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Peter Eiden
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« Reply #24 on: Oct 25, 2017, 10:52AM »

I think all off DDs children are grown.  They can make up their own minds about him.

His son with Melania is only 11 or 12, IIRC.
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« Reply #25 on: Oct 25, 2017, 11:03AM »

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/24/politics/jeff-flake-retirement-arizona/index.html

It is about time! Good for Senator Flake. Good for the country if more senators manage to grow a pair and speak up.

He spoke up, he didn't grow a pair.

Flake could probably survive a general re-election campaign, but isn't looking so good on a primary. This still seems a bit early to declare the polls for next year don't look good yet, a lot can happen in a few months, but initial signs say he is looking at more than a re-election. Maybe putting up a primary challenge to trump in 2020. If he got beat by a trump brownnoser just before running against the child himself, it wouldn't seem very strong at all.

Otherwise, let's be real. This is not the some political tv show where someone has enough, makes a big speech, and the issue is resolved or even changed.

There is a lot that Flake could do to actually "speak up" and work to correct the issues he is outraged over. Especially when his party holds such a slim minority in the chamber he occupies. What has he done? None of them. He marches in blind lockstep with his party, and part of that is supporting trump in his initiatives.

Yes, he made a speech. oooooooooooooooooo.

Empty words are easy.

And that's all they are.

It should be noted, just after making this big empty proclamation on the floor, he next went and voted in lockstep to remove another needed regulation simply because it was added under Obama. And trump claims another victory.

Actually two! Trump "beat" an "opponent", and he gets his legislation with Flake voting for and Pence having to cast the tie-breaking vote.



So far, the only outspoken member to have the balls to stand up even once to support what he fussed about has been McCain and that was incredibly reluctantly.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #26 on: Oct 25, 2017, 04:50PM »

I think all off DDs children are grown.  They can make up their own minds about him.

That's tangential the question, to put a bit of a diplomatic spin on it.
 
I suspect you actually did understand Francischap's point, which leaves the question of why you responded as if you didn't, but whatever.
 
These are just the kinds of things that people do if they let a Deplorable run the social climate in which they're functioning, much like in the current US social climate.
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« Reply #27 on: Oct 25, 2017, 07:21PM »

North Korea first successfully tested a Nuke in 2006.  Why didn't then Senator Obama step in?

Maybe it was because Bush thought 'we can do better' and largely scrapped the deal with North Korea from the '90s? Does that rhyme a bit with the current scenario?

Maybe you know very little about what you type, eh?

And of course, you like that he fights back.  You don't even care if he fights back with obvious proven lies.  But it makes you feel good, so it is good.

Cheers,
Andy

Well we all know that no one has dealt with NKorea until now. Point is Trump is willing to do what everybody wouldn’t do, yet, he’s the one who is attacked.

You think the smart move is to do nothing and let NKorea nuke up?
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« Reply #28 on: Oct 25, 2017, 08:12PM »

It's not true that no one "dealt with" North Korea.   Bill Clinton made a deal that froze their nuclear program and monitored their facilities.

George Bush trashed that so he could look cowboy tough for a day and then did nothing to replace that agreement. George Bush let them go back to building a bomb. He said he wasn't going to let them build a bomb and then let them do it.

If Bush had left Clinton's agreement in place and enforced like it was supposed to be enforced North Korea wouldn't have a bomb today.

It's not Obama's fault George Bush dropped the ball and put us all in the danger we are in today.
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« Reply #29 on: Oct 26, 2017, 04:55AM »

It's not true that no one "dealt with" North Korea.   Bill Clinton made a deal that froze their nuclear program and monitored their facilities.

George Bush trashed that so he could look cowboy tough for a day and then did nothing to replace that agreement. George Bush let them go back to building a bomb. He said he wasn't going to let them build a bomb and then let them do it.

If Bush had left Clinton's agreement in place and enforced like it was supposed to be enforced North Korea wouldn't have a bomb today.

It's not Obama's fault George Bush dropped the ball and put us all in the danger we are in today.

Exactly, but don't be expecting FACTS to mean anything in a discussion with DD, or any Trumpanzees for that matter. To quote the meme, "If it were possible to reason with a Drumpf supporter, there wouldn't be any Drumpf supporters".
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« Reply #30 on: Oct 26, 2017, 05:35AM »

Well we all know that no one has dealt with NKorea until now. Point is Trump is willing to do what everybody wouldn’t do, yet, he’s the one who is attacked.
And aside from empty threats and a battle of naming calling, what exactly has he done?

You think the smart move is to do nothing and let NKorea nuke up?
You do realize, they already have more than a half dozen nukes, including an h bomb, yes? They are and have been "nuked up" and there is little to nothing that we can do about it.
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« Reply #31 on: Oct 26, 2017, 07:22AM »

Well we all know that no one has dealt with NKorea until now. Point is Trump is willing to do what everybody wouldn’t do, yet, he’s the one who is attacked.

You think the smart move is to do nothing and let NKorea nuke up?
No, apparently the rest of the world knows something here.  You apparently know nothing about what you are typing.

They ARE already nuked up and are behaving quite rationally to the threat we are suggesting.  They really aren't that hard to figure out right now.  The hard part is making it in their best interest to do something else.  Threats of force don't do that.  Tearing up the Iran deal doesn't do that.  Gleefully joining the fight against Libya didn't re-enforce that either.  So, quite frankly, I'd like Trump to shut up before he makes it in N.K.'s best interest to bomb somebody. 

Cheers,
Andy
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Andrew Elms
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« Reply #32 on: Oct 26, 2017, 11:45AM »

It's not true that no one "dealt with" North Korea.   Bill Clinton made a deal that froze their nuclear program and monitored their facilities.

George Bush trashed that so he could look cowboy tough for a day and then did nothing to replace that agreement. George Bush let them go back to building a bomb. He said he wasn't going to let them build a bomb and then let them do it.

If Bush had left Clinton's agreement in place and enforced like it was supposed to be enforced North Korea wouldn't have a bomb today.

It's not Obama's fault George Bush dropped the ball and put us all in the danger we are in today.

It's not entirely GWB's fault the accord with the N. Koreans failed. When Dems lost control of Congress during the midterms, the GOP majority started dragging their feet on funding the fuel oil shipments that were agreed to. That caused North Korea to start behaving worse. By the time GWB took office, the thing was already pretty shaky.

Part of the problem is the politicization of these matters of grave importance. When you have a situation with no good options, politicians love to criticize whatever course is taken for not being perfect. As Bannon pointed out, there is no good military option in Korea, because NK has enough conventional weapons aimed at Seoul to immediately destroy in in case of an attack. That was the situation Clinton was dealing with.

The further problem is that partisan politics makes us less able to arrive at agreements, because we don't keep our word. When GWB was president, Kadhafi renounced terrorism, seeking better relations with the US. Then Obama helped overthrow him during the 'Arab Spring' fad (the benefactors of this action displayed their infinite gratitude in Benghazi). Trump's doing the same thing with the Iran deal. We are rapidly becoming a nation that is untrustworthy, because any promise we make lasts only until the next election. It hamstrings our ability to solve problems like this.

Whatever the merits of previous presidents' Korean policy, I think we can all agree that threatening, taunting, and ridiculing Kim Jong Un is NOT a good course. You'd have to be a complete bonehead to think Trump is stepping in and cleaning up a mess left by his predecessors--instead he's taking a terrible situation and making it worse.
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« Reply #33 on: Oct 27, 2017, 11:50AM »

It's not entirely GWB's fault the accord with the N. Koreans failed. When Dems lost control of Congress during the midterms, the GOP majority started dragging their feet on funding the fuel oil shipments that were agreed to. That caused North Korea to start behaving worse. By the time GWB took office, the thing was already pretty shaky.

Part of the problem is the politicization of these matters of grave importance. When you have a situation with no good options, politicians love to criticize whatever course is taken for not being perfect. As Bannon pointed out, there is no good military option in Korea, because NK has enough conventional weapons aimed at Seoul to immediately destroy in in case of an attack. That was the situation Clinton was dealing with.

The further problem is that partisan politics makes us less able to arrive at agreements, because we don't keep our word. When GWB was president, Kadhafi renounced terrorism, seeking better relations with the US. Then Obama helped overthrow him during the 'Arab Spring' fad (the benefactors of this action displayed their infinite gratitude in Benghazi). Trump's doing the same thing with the Iran deal. We are rapidly becoming a nation that is untrustworthy, because any promise we make lasts only until the next election. It hamstrings our ability to solve problems like this.

Whatever the merits of previous presidents' Korean policy, I think we can all agree that threatening, taunting, and ridiculing Kim Jong Un is NOT a good course. You'd have to be a complete bonehead to think Trump is stepping in and cleaning up a mess left by his predecessors--instead he's taking a terrible situation and making it worse.

What does being a trombone player (i.e. bonehead) have to do with Trump? 
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« Reply #34 on: Oct 28, 2017, 11:18AM »

There is certainly many reasons that contribute to poll numbers, but Obama contributed to most of the divisiveness during his term.

So it's Obama's fault people hate Trump! It isn't that he's an nasty, undignified, ignorant, unqualified, bulllying, coarse, name-calling creep--the very kind of person people naturally and normally despise--it must have to do with Obama! Sure, that's it!

This reminds me of a line from Spinal Tap--"They were still booing him when we came on stage."
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« Reply #35 on: Oct 31, 2017, 06:01AM »

Well we all know that no one has dealt with NKorea until now. Point is Trump is willing to do what everybody wouldn’t do, yet, he’s the one who is attacked.
 
You think the smart move is to do nothing and let NKorea nuke up?

This isn't really an inability to learn, it's the unwillingness to consider that there is anything to learn--confidence in one's "understanding" as pure, baseless presumption. A more popular way to put ... being a fool (or a poster boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect).
 
 
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