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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Nothing burger becomes a something burger
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growlerbox
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« Reply #200 on: Dec 05, 2017, 07:13PM »

Well, no. That sounds like a cop-out because the factors being addressed are "complex".

Is it possible to get 100%? Probably not. But we can certainly get closer.

The key is to stop legislating in ignorance or based on political principals, but on actual information and data.

Situations evolve, so too can laws. Situations are complex, so too for laws.

And we have repeatedly prove that effective laws can indeed change situations towards what has been intended, if not 100%.


Too much is often a problem, but so is too little just as much a problem. And yes, they can be too simplistic or ill fitting, but they can also be appropriate. In practice, a good policy or law is a goldilocks scenario. You are just as bad to swing too far one direction as the other, and the importance is hunting for that "just right". At the same time, you aren't going to know what is right until you get involved and start trying and adjusting as you learn.

On the question of cop-outs, I refer you to my post immediately before this one.

Where information is partial, so too will be the laws based upon it.  Such laws can certainly evolve, but much more slowly than the facts surrounding them, and they will therefore always be inadequate to the task they set for themselves.  They may even, in any given case, achieve in full their stated intentions, but the problem is, as ever, the unintended consequences.

Perhaps you're content to allow an organisation composed of people less intelligent and moral than yourself, in all likelihood, to continue reacting to circumstances that have passed them by before they're even aware of them, perhaps sometimes helping a few people here, and only screwing a few people there, if we're lucky.  I would prefer laws based on a set of principles (e.g. freedom from coercion) that are relatively insensitive to circumstances, laws that apply to everyone equally irrespective of group identity, corporate status, wealth, etc.
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« Reply #201 on: Dec 05, 2017, 08:21PM »

You guys are getting thrilled over nothing.

The FBI is corrupt.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/05/gregg-jarrett-how-fbi-official-with-political-agenda-corrupted-both-mueller-and-comey-investigations.html

I know, this link is to Fox News, and you people are so bankrupt, that you won't be able to understand it, and will spin over the spin sites to get your spin. LOL!


That would be hilarious if you didn't actually believe what you just said. You are ridiculous.

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growlerbox
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« Reply #202 on: Dec 06, 2017, 12:21AM »

My apologies for the tone of the last couple of posts; their substantive content I stand by, but I might have expressed it otherwise.

In any event, I don't think we differ too much in our conceptions of how a better world might be, but primarily over how best to realise it.

Peace out.
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« Reply #203 on: Dec 06, 2017, 12:32AM »

My apologies for the tone of the last couple of posts; their substantive content I stand by, but I might have expressed it otherwise.

In any event, I don't think we differ too much in our conceptions of how a better world might be, but primarily over how best to realise it.

Peace out.

I actually agree with part of what you're writing, but I'll respond in the 'ME ME ME' thread to keep this one from going further off topic.
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« Reply #204 on: Dec 06, 2017, 06:43AM »

You guys are getting thrilled over nothing.

The FBI is corrupt.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/05/gregg-jarrett-how-fbi-official-with-political-agenda-corrupted-both-mueller-and-comey-investigations.html

I know, this link is to Fox News, and you people are so bankrupt, that you won't be able to understand it, and will spin over the spin sites to get your spin. LOL!

Seriously?

"BUT HER EMAILS??!?!?!?!11!??"

FFS, dude, you are a parody of even yourself at this point.

Do you forget the leaks coming from the FBI during the last months of the campaign?  Rudy Guiliani was on TV bragging about them!

Maybe, just maybe, the organization is not looking favorable to your buddies because you have willingly chosen to be buddies with a bunch of corrupt boobs.

Cheers,
Andy
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Andrew Elms
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« Reply #205 on: Dec 06, 2017, 06:54AM »

For someone who insists that Trump isn't his guy, DD sure comes off otherwise.

Calls teh FBI corrupt, yet conveniently has zero comment on the corruption within the administration.

hypocrite and a running joke
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« Reply #206 on: Dec 06, 2017, 08:16AM »

Drain the Swamp, and then, lets see.

The corruption is in the FBI, NSA, and the DOJ.

The emails from the prime FBI investigators are being released, and we're seeing what's been going on.

Like say, there are two types of democrats:
1 - The deceivers
2 - The deceived

Please ID which group you belong to when you call me names.

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« Reply #207 on: Dec 06, 2017, 08:25AM »

I'd put you in #2 (since you have opened this avenue of personal attack yourself).

But I find that instead of draining the swamp we have been infused with additional alligators.
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« Reply #208 on: Dec 06, 2017, 08:48AM »

I'd put you in #2 (since you have opened this avenue of personal attack yourself).

But I find that instead of draining the swamp we have been infused with additional alligators.

First off, you need to read again about the two groups. You're missing the part about being a democrat. OBTW, it's not an attack.

Also, you must not understand what draining the Swamp means.

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« Reply #209 on: Dec 06, 2017, 09:24AM »

Gee, I thought you were referring to Republicans. Evil

Does "drain the swamp" mean populate it with people who hate what they are doing?
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« Reply #210 on: Dec 06, 2017, 10:18AM »

As an aside from someone who has lived in swamp country, a healthy swamp is actually a wonderful thing and quite beautiful. Draining a swamp is often a very bad move for the local environment, and is typically done by builders as a grab for money. Cheap land, soft soil, easy build. They don't live there, however, and areas where this has been done often suffer bad flooding and natural disasters as a direct result of that draining/building.

ie, a swamp is often a healthy and very beneficial ecosystem, while draining it is a reckless and short term money grab by the few with long term consequences for the many.

Maybe he really is practicing the drain the swamp mentality.   Don't know Amazed
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« Reply #211 on: Dec 06, 2017, 10:34AM »

You've got to use small words around DD like "patriot" and "Good."  He can't help it.  He's a retired baby boomer who spent his whole life making money off of someone else's work.  You can't expect him to have core traits like common decency, acknowledging basic truths, and rejecting things that hurt his little snowflake.


Common sense tells the rest of us there are 2 possibilities:  Dump is right and the entire federal government is a corrupt conspiracy to usurp him, or Dump is lying.  I think only one of those is probable.
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« Reply #212 on: Dec 06, 2017, 10:39AM »

You've got to use small words around DD like "patriot" and "Good."  He can't help it.  He's a retired baby boomer who spent his whole life making money off of someone else's work.  You can't expect him to have core traits like common decency, acknowledging basic truths, and rejecting things that hurt his little snowflake.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about dude. Also, you're crossing over the line of personal attacks which are prohibited.

Hint:
Keep your talking points about the subject at hand, and not about any of the forum members. It's an easy rule to follow.

 
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Stan

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« Reply #213 on: Dec 06, 2017, 10:49AM »

You don't have a clue what you're talking about dude. Also, you're crossing over the line of personal attacks which are prohibited.

Hint:
Keep your talking points about the subject at hand, and not about any of the forum members. It's an easy rule to follow.

 

Hey man.  Just throwing back the same garbage you so happily spout.  Your'e right.  It's not funny, and it lowers the level of discourse.

I'd also note that you consistently violate:

Members who show a pattern of obnoxious and disrespectful behavior may have their access to the Forum suspended or terminated.
Posts that promote or perpetuate negative racial, sexual and cultural stereotypes are frowned upon and may also be deleted.
Within a topic, please keep your posts relevant to the specific questions and comments posted earlier.

I would happily be banned if that would mean you'd adhere to those ToU.
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« Reply #214 on: Dec 06, 2017, 11:22AM »

First off, you need to read again about the two groups. You're missing the part about being a democrat. .

Well, since you spelled it with a lower-case 'd', it would include anyone who favors democracy. Again, you often admit things quite by accident.

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Also, you must not understand what draining the Swamp means.

Maybe he doesn't, but I do. It means bringing people to Washington who illegally use their position to sell Chinese-made shoes, condos and hotel rooms. It means bringing people to Washington who ultimately resign in disgrace. It means bringing people to Washington who lie continually about their connections to Russia (we can now include Manafort, DJT Jr., Papadopoulos and Flynn among the people who have actually admitted that so far). It means bringing people to Washington who are indicted and plead out. It means pretending to favor working people then passing legislation that primarily benefits the very rich, and particularly the president's family.

One of the ways I judge a man's intellect is his ability to change his mind in the face of new evidence. Early on, you said the Flynn story was 'fake news' because no criminal charges were filed. Now that he pleaded guilty to criminal charges did you change your mind?

Just kidding.
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« Reply #215 on: Dec 06, 2017, 12:03PM »

I have a feeling that Don could fire a cannon down a crowded Pennsylvania Ave and not be indicted for anything.

Except money laundering. Because that has nothing to do with politics.

And Bruce, are you saying he's above the law as long as he remains in office?

The President is not above the law as long as he remains in office.  Since he is the one who grants pardons and is in charge of the people who prosecute cases (the U.S. Attorney's office is a part of the Executive branch, not the judiciary,) it just makes common sense to kick him out of office before having one of the people whom he can fire prosecute a case against him (like the way he fired Comey when he came too close) and so he can't just pardon himself to avoid jail time.  Thus, you impeach him in the House (which is really having the House of Representatives act as a Grand Jury) and then try and convict him in the Senate.  After which he can be tried for same crimes that got him impeached.  They can even use the evidence dug up by the House and Senate.
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« Reply #216 on: Dec 07, 2017, 05:56AM »

Hey man.  Just throwing back the same garbage you so happily spout.  Your'e right.  It's not funny, and it lowers the level of discourse.

I'd also note that you consistently violate:

Members who show a pattern of obnoxious and disrespectful behavior may have their access to the Forum suspended or terminated.
Posts that promote or perpetuate negative racial, sexual and cultural stereotypes are frowned upon and may also be deleted.
Within a topic, please keep your posts relevant to the specific questions and comments posted earlier.

I would happily be banned if that would mean you'd adhere to those ToU.


All I do is offer an opposing political view. I don't promote any kind of bad behavior and I don't insult people directly. My comments are always directed to the discussion and not a particular person.
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Stan

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« Reply #217 on: Dec 07, 2017, 06:42AM »

All I do is offer an opposing political view. I don't promote any kind of bad behavior and I don't insult people directly. My comments are always directed to the discussion and not a particular person.

This is succinctly untrue.  Offering an opposing view never entails the kind of behavior you routinely exhibit.  Cry about it.  It’s what you do.
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« Reply #218 on: Dec 07, 2017, 07:51AM »


Totally normal: the Trump Campaign manager has been in business for years with a Russian intelligence agent.

Manafort Associate Has Russian Intelligence Ties, Court Document Says

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Monday’s motion does not name the associate with whom Mr. Manafort is believed to have worked on the op-ed. It identified the person only as “a longtime Russian colleague of Manafort’s, who is currently based in Russia and assessed to have ties to a Russian intelligence service.”

A person close to Mr. Manafort identified the associate as Konstantin V. Kilimnik, who worked for years as Mr. Manafort’s right-hand man in Ukraine and continued communicating with him throughout the 2016 presidential campaign.

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Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kilimnik communicated regularly during the 2016 campaign, with Mr. Kilimnik traveling to the United States to meet at least twice. The pair exchanged cryptic emails last year in which they appeared to discuss how to use Mr. Manafort’s role on the Trump campaign to recoup unpaid bills from the Russian oligarch Oleg V. Deripaska.

Since Manafort's arrest, the two began writing an op-ed together...

Quote
The court filing contends that the op-ed “clearly was undertaken to influence the public’s opinion of defendant Manafort, or else there would be no reason to seek its publication.” It says that the plan was for Mr. Manafort and his associate to ghostwrite the op-ed to appear under someone else’s name,


Lawyer-to-lawyer professional courtesy...

Quote
The special counsel flagged the op-ed effort last week for Mr. Manafort’s lawyers, who assured the prosecutors “that steps would be taken to make sure it was no longer going to be published,” according to the Monday filing.
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« Reply #219 on: Dec 07, 2017, 08:24AM »

This is succinctly untrue.  Offering an opposing view never entails the kind of behavior you routinely exhibit.  Cry about it.  It’s what you do.

I don't understand why you feel that way. But you know what, I'm not going to spend my time after this to go round and round with you about this. Just leave my name out of your posts.
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