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Author Topic: Shooting in Texas  (Read 3562 times)
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timothy42b
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 06, 2017, 06:14AM »

We want an easy fix.

Not all problems have an easy fix.  Life is not fair.

Not all problems have ANY fix.  This one may, but not a quick one, not an easy one.

The danger in focusing on access as the problem is that the only fix we'll try is restricting access.  I don't think that's even part of the problem. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #21 on: Nov 06, 2017, 06:43AM »

Well, I disagree.  I think you have the order wrong.  We reach for guns because we are a gun culture, not necessarily because they are effective.  We have built a system that has relatively easy access because a gun culture wants it - access didn't produce the gun culture, the gun culture produced access.  

If you want to go somewhere in Richmond, VA, your first thought is probably your car.

If you want to go somewhere in NYC, your first thought is probably the subway.

How is this not related to access and options?
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BGuttman
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 06, 2017, 07:04AM »

My take:
This is one where a dishonorably discharged atheist fired an illegal gun into a gun free zone and was taken down by a good guy with a legal gun.


First, we don't know he was an atheist.  I hope that will come out after some investigation goes on, but assuming he's an atheist because he shot up a church is making a broad step.

Secondly, he was not dishonorably discharged.  He was discharged for bad conduct (wife beating).  There is a difference.  A dishonorable discharge means you cannot buy a gun.  A bad conduct discharge does not carry the same stigma.

I think we need to allow more information to come out before we jump to any conclusions.  Still, we seem to have an absolute fetish for shooting our way our of problems.  Maybe it's the extreme violence in movies and television?
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Bruce Guttman
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timothy42b
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« Reply #23 on: Nov 06, 2017, 07:21AM »

Still, we seem to have an absolute fetish for shooting our way our of problems.  Maybe it's the extreme violence in movies and television?

It seems reasonable to me that this is a contributor.  It may be a bit chicken and egg though:  We have lots of violent movies because they are profitable.  They are profitable because we like them.  We like them because we are violent people.  Which came first? 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #24 on: Nov 06, 2017, 07:33AM »

If the good guy with a gun was so good why wasn't he in church? An atheist maybe?

But I predict the "local resident with a gun" portion will be modified before all is done. The vague details of the story as currently told don't make sense.

He confronted the shooter (certainly possible)...
 
who dropped his gun (ex-mil ninja guy who's blasted 50 people is suddenly disarmed by a "stop or I'll shoot" command)  Don't know...

and then got in his car and drove away? (So the shooter is unarmed now but somehow the local with a gun can't stop him from driving away.)  Don't know




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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #25 on: Nov 06, 2017, 07:37AM »

Which came first?
Losing touch with the horrors of real violence in our lives.
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robcat2075

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« Reply #26 on: Nov 06, 2017, 07:40AM »

Quote
Still, we seem to have an absolute fetish for shooting our way our of problems.  Maybe it's the extreme violence in movies and television?
It seems reasonable to me that this is a contributor...

And yet if anyone says there's too much violence in video games (far more exposure to kids now than movies or TV), where you can actually take the role of stalking people and killing them, there is a huge shrieking of denials and cries of "censorship" and industry spokesmen coming out to say it's all just good clean fun.

I frequently see the hipster tech media lamenting yet another mass shooting but rarely see them lamenting the violence the tech games are normalizing.   
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Robert Holmén

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robcat2075

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« Reply #27 on: Nov 06, 2017, 07:52AM »

Meanwhile in upside down world...





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Robert Holmén

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MrPillow
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 06, 2017, 08:42AM »

Too bad the "good guy with a gun" was only 26 lives too late  Yeah, RIGHT. what a shameful load of ****.
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« Reply #29 on: Nov 06, 2017, 08:50AM »

It seems reasonable to me that this is a contributor...


And yet if anyone says there's too much violence in video games (far more exposure to kids now than movies or TV), where you can actually take the role of stalking people and killing them, there is a huge shrieking of denials and cries of "censorship" and industry spokesmen coming out to say it's all just good clean fun.

I frequently see the hipster tech media lamenting yet another mass shooting but rarely see them lamenting the violence the tech games are normalizing.   


People play video games all over the world. Mass shootings seem to be largely an American problem.
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robcat2075

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« Reply #30 on: Nov 06, 2017, 08:54AM »


People play video games all over the world. Mass shootings seem to be largely an American problem.

But they don't also have guaranteed access to the guns like we do.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #31 on: Nov 06, 2017, 08:54AM »

Too bad the "good guy with a gun" was only 26 lives too late  Yeah, RIGHT. what a shameful load of ****.
Looks like the shooter shot himself as well. So... the good guy with a gun came too late, got off a couple rounds - all of which missed - then did a bit of pursuit until the shooter offed himself.

Very effective that good guy...
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 06, 2017, 08:57AM »

Dear Mr Trump
You must have a very different form of mental illness than we encounter in Europe. We have plenty of mentally ill people, but they don't very often gun down scores of innocent people.
As you say, it's nothing to do with the availability of guns, so I'm scratching my head.
Interested in your thoughts and research into this Illness that seems to affect so many in your great country.
God bless America!
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Dan Hine

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« Reply #33 on: Nov 06, 2017, 09:02AM »

Losing touch with the horrors of real violence in our lives.

I believe we're a very self-centered country.  Because of that, we tend to objectify people.  I post this fairly often and it never really seems to gain much traction but the ideas presented in the video and in their books Leadership and Self Deception and The Outward Mindset have had a profound impact on the relationships I have in my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyhOT3jCcR4

Think about it.  If a person is an object to you then what happens to them doesn't matter.  No different than anything else we may casually discard.
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Dan Hine

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« Reply #34 on: Nov 06, 2017, 09:07AM »


People play video games all over the world. Mass shootings seem to be largely an American problem.

Not just mass shootings but overall homicide rate.  United Nations data places us 94th but look at the countries above us.   Amazed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

I believe gun legislation needs to occur but I also believe that if we think that alone is going to fix our problem, we'll be very disappointed.
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robcat2075

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« Reply #35 on: Nov 06, 2017, 09:10AM »

Another example of the nonsense that is passed as fact...

On public radio news show "The Texas Standard" a pastor ("Kenneth Clapp"?) is interviewed and he laments the everyone is "just arguing with each other" but says that passing more gun laws won't solve the problem because it won't stop the guns that the drug trade brings "across the border".

But which of these massacres are because of Mexican drug cartel members? Has there ever been a drug cartel massacre in the US?
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #36 on: Nov 06, 2017, 09:18AM »

Are the mass shooters mostly white guys? Other than the Rockland Maryland sniper, and an Asian student in Virginia, the shooters seem to be mostly white guys, young and old.

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Dan Hine

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« Reply #37 on: Nov 06, 2017, 09:20AM »

Are the shooters mostly white guys? Other than the Rockland Maryland sniper, and an Asian student in Virginia, the shooters seem to be mostly white guys, young and old.

Mostly?  Perhaps in "mass shootings" but I don't believe so in "regular" shootings.  Bad people do bad things and bad people come in all colors.
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Bimmerman
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« Reply #38 on: Nov 06, 2017, 09:33AM »

Nothing could be done to prevent this!

--says the only country where this routinely happens.
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robcat2075

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« Reply #39 on: Nov 06, 2017, 09:40AM »

I was about to post that white guys are probably mostly likely to be able to spend the many hundreds of dollars that an assault rifle costs, but then I saw that Walmart sells an "AK-47" and similar items for under $120Yeah, RIGHT.
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Robert Holmén

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