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The Trombone ForumTeaching & LearningHistory of the Trombone(Moderator: bhcordova) The Mystery of the Missing Equali
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MrPillow
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 10, 2017, 04:39PM »

This compilation dated to 1583, towards the end of its lengthy title, states that it includes "other magnificats [and?] aequales" - http://stimmbuecher.digitale-sammlungen.de/view?id=bsb00075343

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« Reply #21 on: Nov 10, 2017, 04:44PM »

Cool!  Thanks.


Did you change jobs again?
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 10, 2017, 05:04PM »

I'm on a 1-year contract with The Preservation Society of Newport County. No trombones here sadly :(
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« Reply #23 on: Nov 10, 2017, 05:09PM »

This compilation dated to 1583, towards the end of its lengthy title, states that it includes "other magnificats [and?] aequales" - http://stimmbuecher.digitale-sammlungen.de/view?id=bsb00075343



Hooray!

It is a use of the word.

"ad" means "to" as in "Gradus ad Parnassum"


"Magnificat ad aequale"  = [from] Magnificat to aequale (?)

But is is curious that it is not capitalized like nouns are in the rest of that title (German rule) as if it's a modifier.

Inside it is always used as "Ad aequales"
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #24 on: Nov 10, 2017, 05:11PM »

Perhaps then a description of the arrangement of voices within a work, in this case, the magnificat?
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 10, 2017, 05:36PM »

Can anyone determine who the composer was?
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« Reply #26 on: Nov 10, 2017, 06:00PM »

Ioannes Baptista Pinellus AKA Giovanni Pinello.
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« Reply #27 on: Nov 10, 2017, 07:14PM »

That Shakespearean German doesn't quite work in Google Translate

My rough guess...

German Magnificat in the eight musical tones (modes?)
each one twice
and wandering/traveling(?) ninth modes three times
with four and five voices
several new(?) Benedictions
very lovely to sing
and on all instruments to play
and others too
Magnificat to aequales


Many of these pieces span a tenor trombone range ...    to 
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 10, 2017, 08:06PM »

Ioannes Baptista Pinellus AKA Giovanni Pinello.
Does not look like he made this list:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magnificat_composers

Is there a good reference to his musical notation?  I'm a little confused.  No bar lines, and I 'm not sure of the times signatures or the clefs.  I'd like to take a swat at transcription
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« Reply #29 on: Nov 10, 2017, 08:34PM »

Does not look like he made this list:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magnificat_composers

Is there a good reference to his musical notation?  I'm a little confused.  No bar lines, and I 'm not sure of the times signatures or the clefs.  I'd like to take a swat at transcription

barlines?   :/

The ones with just C clefs on all four parts are easier to negotiate. The tricky part is the rests. The are sometimes just the barest speck of ink on the staff.

an X is a sharp, I think.

the square whole note is equal to two whole notes and the square whole note with a stem is four whole notes.

Several seem to start with a solo chant in the top voice that is not accounted for in the other parts.
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« Reply #30 on: Nov 11, 2017, 01:58AM »

Does not look like he made this list:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magnificat_composers

Is there a good reference to his musical notation?  I'm a little confused.  No bar lines, and I 'm not sure of the times signatures or the clefs.  I'd like to take a swat at transcription

barlines?   :/

The ones with just C clefs on all four parts are easier to negotiate. The tricky part is the rests. The are sometimes just the barest speck of ink on the staff.

an X is a sharp, I think.

the square whole note is equal to two whole notes and the square whole note with a stem is four whole notes.

Several seem to start with a solo chant in the top voice that is not accounted for in the other parts.

I didn't go through the whole book so I'm not discussing any specific case, but about mensural notation on general :

No barlines is standard (although typically bassus pro organo / partitura parts often do have barlines, although not necessarily consistently or of equal length.)

Robert's note values are correct, for duple meters. In triple time, though, a brevis (square) is divided in 3 semibrevis (whole notes) in tempus perfectum prolatio minor (à circle, or the semibrevis is divided in 3 minime (half notes) in tempus imperfectum prolatio maior (a C with a dot in the middle), or more rarely both, in tempus perfectum prolatio maior (circle with a dot in the middle).

Then there are a bunch of rules that temper that, for example in tempus perfectum a semibrevis after a brevis "imperfects" it (makes it 2 long instead of 3),so a brevis followed by a semibrevis is 2+1. In some cases a semibrevis before a brevis does that too (so it's 1+2), and in some cases, two semibrevis in row will have the second "altered", meaning doubled (also 1+2). It would be hard to explain all these rules in a forum post and they might not all be relevant as this is a rather late source. Black filled notes are always imperfect (duple). (here I notice many pieces start  with a solo voice singing a line in black notation - that is chant, as Robert said. It is sometimes accounted for in other parts with rests, sometimes not).

A narrow square note with a stem is a longa (4 whole notes), a wide square note with a stem is a maxima (8 whole notes).

I notice there are ligatures. Those can be rather complex but I've only seen short two note ones in here. Ligatures that have a stem up are always whole-whole. For the others it depends on the shape, direction of motion, and where the last note is relative to the final stem (when there is one).

Note that it is common that not all voices reach the final note at the same time. Those who finish earlier just hang on to their final note until everyone is done.

X is sharp or natural, depending (a B or E with an x is natural, not sharp). Accidentals are rarely used because performers knew where to use them (e.g. sharpen the leading note at cadence, make some Bs and Es flat following the rules of solmisation, etc). They are used inconsistently in written form.

Clefs are the usual F, C and G clefs, except they can be on any line. Standard clef configuration is Soprano Alto Tenor Bass (C1, C3, C4, F4). I notice that some pieces (the very first one for instance) are in what is called "chiavette", literally the "little clefs" - Treble, mezzo soprano, alto, tenor or baritone (G2, C2, C3, C4 or F3). This is generally accepted to mean it would have been transposed down (any piece could be transposed up or down at will, but chiavette often implies it hasto be, and typically by larger transposition interval - down a fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh).

Rests are the hardest part of sight reading music like that (because of the absence of barlines) but are actually the most familiar notation. They are the same we use today. A brevis (square) rest fills the interval between two lines, a longa rest (or two breve)  fills two spaces. As we're used to, a semibrevis (whole) rest hangs from the line and minima (half) rest stands on a line - they're just slimmer than the modern version - a semiminima (quarter) rest hooks to the right, and a fusa (8th) rest hooks to the left.


Hope it helped.
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #31 on: Nov 11, 2017, 09:01AM »

Back on topic, "auch andere Magnificat ad equales" would mean "as well as other magnificats in equal voices" (ad is commonly used in this context - for example moteti ad 3, 4 et 5 voces = motets in 3, 4 and 5 voices). The fact that the whole expression is in latin and roman font type while the voicing of the other pieces is previously referred to whithin the German text could be revealing - the editor seems to be referring to a specific genre, however a quick search doesn't come up with any other reference to Magnificat ad voces equales. I don't see any reason to assume equal voices are more relevant to magnificats than other compositions. Writing for an equal voice choir was quite common, whether it's a single choir or within a polychoral composition where you can have a mixture of SATB or SATTB choirs with equal voiced choirs (often ATTB or TTTB, or SSAA, SAAT, or other similar combinations in 3, 4, 5 voices). Clearly this type of voicing is where the later Beethoven and Bruckner "Aequale" or "Equali" draw their origins from. Whether "aequale" as a genre of pieces is an important tradition or not is the question, but I'd start looking closer to Beethoven and Bruckner's time to find a pattern before trying to draw a direct link between them and Renaissance examples of equal voice writing.
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« Reply #32 on: Nov 11, 2017, 09:21AM »

Any idea what "Peregrini toni" is?

It means the "ninth tone".
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« Reply #33 on: Nov 11, 2017, 09:36AM »

Any idea what "Peregrini toni" is?

It means the "ninth tone".

Tonus peregrinus was the ninth mode before Glareanus theoricized about the existence of modes 9 to 12. It was distinct from the other 8 modes in that when reciting in tonus peregrinus, the tenor note moves down (usually one step) for the second phrase. Kind of "modulating", if you want to see it that way (hence the "traveling tone").

Edit : Ha, looked it up as I was answering, did you? :-P
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« Reply #34 on: Nov 11, 2017, 09:58AM »

I guess these mode numbers don't correspond to steps of the scale then?
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #35 on: Nov 11, 2017, 10:08AM »

I guess these mode numbers don't correspond to steps of the scale then?

Not exactly. The original 8 gregorian modes are 1. Dorian, 3. Phrygian, 5. Lydian and 7. Mixolydian, the four "authentic" modes, with 2, 4, 6 and 8 being the plagal version of those four (same names with the "hypo" prefix added). Glareanus came up with modes 9-10 (Aeolian and Hypoaeolian) and 11-12 (Ionian and Hypoionian). It took a while for that to become widespread/mainstream. No mode on B for quite some time after that still.
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« Reply #36 on: Nov 11, 2017, 11:15AM »

... the tenor note moves down (usually one step) for the second phrase. Kind of "modulating", if you want to see it that way (hence the "traveling tone").


I would have trouble identifying that maneuver in any of these parts however.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #37 on: Nov 11, 2017, 12:54PM »

When two note heads are connected (a ligature?) that implies a slur on one syllable and the two notes together take half the time they normally would?
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« Reply #38 on: Nov 11, 2017, 02:40PM »

There is a wiki article on it.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensural_notation

It seems incredibly complex but at the same time limiting.

They show a piece there that has each part in a different time signature!!! Amazed  Sounds kind of cool though.
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« Reply #39 on: Nov 11, 2017, 03:21PM »

When two note heads are connected (a ligature?) that implies a slur on one syllable and the two notes together take half the time they normally would?

No short answer. It often implies a slur on one syllable although not 100% of the time.

And as for note value, as I said it's quite complex, it depends on motion direction, presence or not of stems and if so, their direction, and where the last note is relative to the final stem (if there is one).

It's in any case always a combination of semibreves, breves and/or lunga, never longer or shorter values. Ligature can have as many notes as you want in them. 5 or 6 note ligatures are not uncommon, especially in older repertoire. I'll post examples tomorrow if you want as well as the little memory help with various combinations I have written down somewhere if you'd like. It's late here.
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