Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1087266 Posts in 72010 Topics- by 19242 Members - Latest Member: simonvd
Jump to:  
The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Republican duplicity re: sexual assaults
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Republican duplicity re: sexual assaults  (Read 1890 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
slide advantage
*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Apr 18, 2016
Posts: 807

View Profile WWW
« on: Nov 10, 2017, 04:06PM »

I'd find it amusing that the Republican leaders (notably Bannon) are all rallying around accused Senator Roy Moore over the claims of 4 different women regarding their experiences with his alleged unsavory and illegal sexual behavior.

This is much different than the position they were taking over Weinstein. (And of course, Weinstein's behavior SHOULD be condemned. No one is defending him.

But with the Roy Moore story, the claims are that is just more 'fake media' and a conspiracy to bring him down.

Horse ****

Apart from the similar claims from the 4 women (who don't even know each other), there are many people attesting that the girls (underage at the time) did talk about what had happened to them.

These clowns should be ashamed of themselves for saying that the girls are lying without even considering that there may be something to the accusations. All knee jerk and political. Disgusting.
Logged
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6298

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Nov 10, 2017, 04:27PM »

The traditional standard of indefensibility is "dead girl, live boy" and he hasn't quite gotten down that far yet.

His political career is safe.
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Athens, GA (USA)
Joined: Jul 16, 2002
Posts: 18583
"Reality Junkie"


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Nov 10, 2017, 04:43PM »

I caught a great comment about what some are calling the developing Women's Spring on NPR this morning driving in to work. I don't recall the exact quote, but it was about all these dudes who are used to silencing their victims and getting plenty of enabling. The woman said something simply about how the fear and shame are changing sides. That makes me happy.
Logged

- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
slide advantage
*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Apr 18, 2016
Posts: 807

View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: Nov 10, 2017, 05:15PM »

I caught a great comment about what some are calling the developing Women's Spring on NPR this morning driving in to work. I don't recall the exact quote, but it was about all these dudes who are used to silencing their victims and getting plenty of enabling. The woman said something simply about how the fear and shame are changing sides. That makes me happy.

 Good!
Logged
badger

*
Offline Offline

Location: Permian Basin
Joined: Sep 27, 2010
Posts: 1288

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Nov 10, 2017, 05:32PM »

I'd find it amusing that the Republican leaders (notably Bannon) are all rallying around accused Senator Roy Moore over the claims of 4 different women regarding their experiences with his alleged unsavory and illegal sexual behavior.

This is much different than the position they were taking over Weinstein. (And of course, Weinstein's behavior SHOULD be condemned. No one is defending him.

But with the Roy Moore story, the claims are that is just more 'fake media' and a conspiracy to bring him down.

Horse ****

Apart from the similar claims from the 4 women (who don't even know each other), there are many people attesting that the girls (underage at the time) did talk about what had happened to them.

These clowns should be ashamed of themselves for saying that the girls are lying without even considering that there may be something to the accusations. All knee jerk and political. Disgusting.


Who's Weinstein? Has that name been mentioned here before?
Logged
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51143
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Nov 10, 2017, 06:02PM »


Who's Weinstein? Has that name been mentioned here before?

He's the movie Mogul who was using a casting couch on starlets.  Lot of great films to his credit.  Lots of girls who had to buy their careers with sex.  Big Democratic donor.  So he gets pilloried on Fox while it's all apologies for Moore who was actually practicing Pedophilia.

Note that most of the people coming forth about a lot of these folks endured their assaults so long ago that the Statute of Limitations means the perpetrator won't be prosecuted.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
ddickerson

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 9684

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Nov 10, 2017, 06:05PM »

I think we have just reached the same space as Orville, lol!
Logged

Energy City Horizons Symphonic Band
Energy City Big Band
Energy City Dixieland Band
River Pointe Church Praise and Worship Band
slide advantage
*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Apr 18, 2016
Posts: 807

View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: Nov 10, 2017, 09:39PM »

I think we have just reached the same space as Orville, lol!

please expound
Logged
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6298

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Nov 10, 2017, 10:31PM »

Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
slide advantage
*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Apr 18, 2016
Posts: 807

View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: Nov 10, 2017, 10:39PM »

There it is, in a nutshell (so to speak)
Logged
ddickerson

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 9684

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Nov 11, 2017, 05:43AM »

please expound

You don't watch Orville?

OK.

In America, we now have trial by media. There is no going back to 'innocent until proven guilty'. All allegations will be treated as facts. And the country will pay a huge price for that.

Mitt Romney yesterday tweeted that 'innocent until proven guilty' is not for elections. (just one example)

For a comedic view of how this can evolve into watch the latest episode of Orville, or at least in the last couple of weeks or so.

Logged

Energy City Horizons Symphonic Band
Energy City Big Band
Energy City Dixieland Band
River Pointe Church Praise and Worship Band
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51143
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Nov 11, 2017, 05:48AM »

You don't watch Orville?

The only Orville I know of flew an airplane in 1903 and has been dead for nearly 100 years.  Who is this one?
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
ddickerson

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 9684

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Nov 11, 2017, 05:52AM »

The only Orville I know of flew an airplane in 1903 and has been dead for nearly 100 years.  Who is this one?

It is a current TV show similar to Star Trek, but more comedic in content.
Logged

Energy City Horizons Symphonic Band
Energy City Big Band
Energy City Dixieland Band
River Pointe Church Praise and Worship Band
BGuttman
Mad Chemist

*
*
Offline Offline

Location: Londonderry, NH, USA
Joined: Dec 12, 2000
Posts: 51143
"Almost Professional"


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Nov 11, 2017, 05:57AM »

It is a current TV show similar to Star Trek, but more comedic in content.

Well, that might explain it.  I don't think I've watched a TV program since last New Years.
Logged

Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orch. President 2017-2018
ddickerson

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 9684

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Nov 11, 2017, 05:59AM »

Well, that might explain it.  I don't think I've watched a TV program since last New Years.

Yep. That explains it. LOL!
Logged

Energy City Horizons Symphonic Band
Energy City Big Band
Energy City Dixieland Band
River Pointe Church Praise and Worship Band
elmsandr

*
Offline Offline

Location: Howell, MI
Joined: Apr 12, 2004
Posts: 3324

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: Nov 12, 2017, 06:17AM »

You don't watch Orville?

OK.

In America, we now have trial by media. There is no going back to 'innocent until proven guilty'. All allegations will be treated as facts. And the country will pay a huge price for that.

Mitt Romney yesterday tweeted that 'innocent until proven guilty' is not for elections. (just one example)

For a comedic view of how this can evolve into watch the latest episode of Orville, or at least in the last couple of weeks or so.


... there are 30 sources and four named accusers in the Moore story.....  Is that somehow not enough to say that this guy, who was already not at all qualified, should step aside?

You are happy to accept the trial by media if the unsourced accusations are against Hillary and Podesta, but now decry the attack of the savage hordes.  I wonder what could be different.

Cheers,
Andy
Logged

Andrew Elms
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6298

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: Nov 12, 2017, 07:10AM »

"Innocent until proven guilty" isn't in the constitution and it wasn't until 1895 that a court case (Coffin v. United States) acknowledged the notion.

It's an over-simplified summary of the constitutional limitation that the government may not impose a penalty (prison, fines) unless a person has had been tried and found guilty and that it is the burden of the government to prove a charge in court rather than of the accused to prove his innocence in court. "Due process"

It's not a limitation on the public or the media talking about charges. If it were you could never report a crime. You could never ask if any witnesses saw the crime. You could never ask if there were any other victims. 

FOX News and every Republican would be in jail now for claiming Hillary was guilty of email when she's never even been charged, let alone tried and convicted.

Because, oh dear, innocent until proven guilty!



Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
Le.Tromboniste
*
Offline Offline

Location: Basel, Switzerland
Joined: Aug 5, 2008
Posts: 300

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Nov 12, 2017, 08:27AM »

Exactly. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a purely legal concept with no impact on what the media and general population are and should be allowed to discuss. It is also specifically problematic in cases of sexual assault and sexual harassment, as those charges are extremely hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt in the vast majority of cases. The stigma around victims of sexual assault and harassment, specifically when they are women, combined with that ridiculously low rate of conviction is more than enough to discourage victims to speak out. For obvious reasons the potential risks of speaking out rises exponentially when it concerns a man in a position of authority or with influence in the field you work or study in (the countless cases of sexual abuse by instrument teachers in music conservatories, for instance...).

Studies in Canada have shown that as little as 3% of charged cases led to convictions. And it is estimated that the vast majority of cases do not lead to charges, if they are even reported to the police at all.

So yeah, I want to agree with the idea of due process philosophically, but clearly, the system is failing the victims in sexual assault cases. Hiding behind the "innocent until proven guilty" argument instead of acknowledging that the system doesn't work and that something has to change in both the system and our culture is particularly cowardly.
Logged

Maximilien Brisson
slide advantage
*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Apr 18, 2016
Posts: 807

View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: Nov 12, 2017, 08:55AM »


You are happy to accept the trial by media if the unsourced accusations are against Hillary and Podesta, but now decry the attack of the savage hordes.  I wonder what could be different.

Cheers,
Andy

Well, as you know, that is exactly how DD works. I guess he doesn't have daughters.

Consider that all of the different women who can attest to Moore's behavior are from disparate locations and backgrounds. Plus several witnesses attest that the alleged victims told them what happened when those things happened. And DD seriously wants to be believe it is a political conspiracy. Yeah, RIGHT.

And past co-workers say that Moore dated high school girls back then.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/11/11/moore-high-school-girls-sanchez-marquardt-segment-nr.cnn

another source (since DD doesn't accept CNN as credible): http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/roy-moore-colleague-common-knowledge-dated-teenagers-article-1.3627653

Yet DD still sides with Roy Moore. I guess moral compromises are part of the game with him.

Sad

Logged
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 6298

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: Nov 12, 2017, 09:21AM »

Well, as you know, that is exactly how DD works. I guess he doesn't have daughters.


He does have some imaginary nephews he's very protective of.
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: