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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentAccessories(Moderator: Greg Waits) Practice mute more free blowing and more loud than bremner
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Dixieland57
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« on: Nov 13, 2017, 12:35AM »

Hi, I use a bremner mute in my apartment when I have no other choice, I don't need the more quiet so I want to know if it exist a mute more free blowing even if it's louder.

What do you think about the Wallace studio without the resistor ?Or an another one ?
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bonenick

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« Reply #1 on: Nov 13, 2017, 02:25AM »

Any adjustable cup mute. You can control the volume and the resistance.
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 13, 2017, 02:28AM »

Really ?
So why practice mute exist?
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bonenick

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« Reply #3 on: Nov 13, 2017, 03:08AM »

Basically, the practice mutes existe because there are people buying them  Clever

Some practice mutes mute more than most other mute could. If sounding a bit louder is not an issue, I don't really see reason to buy a practice mute, whatever the brand is. You could use a cup or Harmon without the stem (but in the latter, intonation in low register can be troublesome.)

My first practice mute (on trumpet) was silent brass. I no more use it as practice mute but only with an FX processor...

Best brass and Brenner mutes seem to be the best practices mutes for both trombone a trumpet. However, they are really for soft dynamics practice, loud playing on those mutes for extended periods of time can confuse your chops. Definitely not good.
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Matt K

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« Reply #4 on: Nov 13, 2017, 04:49AM »

Could you clarify what you mean by "[you] don't need more quiet"?  Do you mean you are okay playing in something louder or do you mean that the level of quiet that it provides is fine but you would prefer it to be more open blowing?

There are a couple of options:

The newer Yamaha silent brass is actually very free blowing in my opinion.  But they don't have one for bass. Further, you can use the electronics to pipe some of the sound into headphones which emulates to some degree, although not perfectly, how you would sound without the mute. But with more resistance.

The Wallace mutes are basically straight mutes but you can control the level of resistance.  I had the larger of the two, the 'studio' mute. It also felt very free blowing when it had the stem all the way out, but with it all the way out it was effectively a straight mtue so there wasn't nearly as much sound dissipation.

I'd recommend one of those two for any level of extended practice.  I think part of the reason practice mutes have a bad reputation rae the lower quality ones or ones that aren't meant to really be used for practicing, but for warming up.  I have a best brass mute that is absolutely terrible for practicing on. But its a great mute to use back stage if you want to blow but don't want to make a lot of noise. It dissipates the noise such that unless you're blowing very loudly, its around the same level as a conversation. As a consequence, it makes you unbelievably sharp.  Especially in the higher registers. 

The Yamaha and the Wallace mutes that I've tried don't have that much of an influence on the intonation.  I don't recall trying them back to back, but my impression is that the Yamaha (without the electronics) is a little quieter and the Wallace a little more free blowing.

What type of practice are you hoping to do? For how long? It isn't unusual for people in cities living in apartments to come up with some kind of arrangement with churches, schools, laundromats, karaoke bars, and other areas where noise isn't really an issue to work out an arrangement where they can practice without disturbing anyone.
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 13, 2017, 05:18AM »

Matt K I can manage and will playing louder.
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Exzaclee

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« Reply #6 on: Nov 13, 2017, 05:29AM »

If you don't need to be so quiet, why use a practice mute?

Practice mutes are for places (houses, apartments, etc.) where you should not play loud as a courtesy to your neighbors. That is why they exist. That is the only reason they exist.

If you don't have to be as quiet, use a cup - or any other mute.

Or no mute at all.
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 13, 2017, 05:41AM »

No mute is too loud and with practice mute it's softer than what I can manage
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 13, 2017, 12:17PM »

Is a cup mute more open than a practice mute like the bremner ?
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bigbassbone1

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« Reply #9 on: Nov 13, 2017, 12:27PM »

No mute is too loud and with practice mute it's softer than what I can manage

This is confusing.... if no mute is too loud then why use one at all? A lot of concert mutes dont really dampen the sound THAT much.

Why not practice mostly at a moderate dynamic for most of your practice and only put in the bremner when you need to play extra loud?

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Quiros

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« Reply #10 on: Nov 13, 2017, 12:36PM »

This is confusing.... if no mute is too loud then why use one at all? A lot of concert mutes dont really dampen the sound THAT much.

I believe OP meant playing without a mute is too loud.

OP, a Softone mute works pretty well. Just drape it over the bell like you were using it as a bucket mute.
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 13, 2017, 01:50PM »

Hi, I use a bremner mute in my apartment when I have no other choice, I don't need the more quiet so I want to know if it exist a mute more free blowing even if it's louder.

Bucket mute
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 14, 2017, 12:38AM »

Playing open is too loud even at mf, I play with a bremner but would know if something is more open even if it sound louder than the bremner (I can manage a volume twice or a little bit more than the bremner)
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 14, 2017, 02:08AM »

Oh I love Bremner it is very good, I use the Wallace to, it is also very good. Best Bras makes the horns to much out of tune for my liking.
Tight cup and bucket is good if you don´t own a Bremner.
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 14, 2017, 02:52AM »

I own a bremner but search if something is more free blowing even if it's louder
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Matt K

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« Reply #15 on: Nov 14, 2017, 03:30AM »

I'd probably go with the Yamaha one if you are on tenor.  It is more free blowing than other mutes but also with the electronics, it gives you the feeling you are playing at a reasonable dynamic level without blowing your brains out!!
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 14, 2017, 05:14AM »

Matt K more free blowing than the bremner and maslet?
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Matt K

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« Reply #17 on: Nov 14, 2017, 05:56AM »

Matt K more free blowing than the bremner and maslet?

Can't provide a direct comparison as I've never tried them. But the problem with practice mutes is feedback. That's why they feel resistant.  Well, that and the actual reistamce. But with the sound coming out of your bell being piped into your ear, you don't feel like you have to over blow.
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BillO
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 14, 2017, 06:33AM »

Playing open is too loud even at mf, I play with a bremner but would know if something is more open even if it sound louder than the bremner (I can manage a volume twice or a little bit more than the bremner)
You've been given several alternatives.

Bucket mute  (as open as you cqan get and quite quiet)
Harmon mute (these are very quite and quite open)
Softone mute (never tried one, but I guess it's a lot like a soft hat mute)
Cup mute (a little resistance - not as open feeling a a bucket mute)

You could also try a solo-tone mute.

They will all be quieter than open and less resistance than a practice mute.
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« Reply #19 on: Nov 14, 2017, 06:37AM »

I have a Bremner for bass, and I agree that the Yamaha is a better way to go for tenor. The Yamaha is the quietest mute I've played and the feedback from the electronics makes it feel much more natural than any other mute, so it can be as loud as you want it to be. Plus, it stores flat in the bell. It's expensive, but its one mute purchase I never regretted. A solotone is a mute that is set up like a practice mute, but allows a little more air, but it plays way out of tune. A Harmon is another that seals all the way around the inside of the bell.
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 14, 2017, 09:53AM »

Is a bucket mute heavy?
And how much does it cut the sound ? Half?
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Matt K

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« Reply #21 on: Nov 14, 2017, 11:30AM »

I actually disagree on the bucket mute myself.  I have experience with the Jo Ral style though, not the kind that clamp onto the bell. They're heavy and change the balance of the instrument too much to be used for any length of time... at least in my opinion.  I also don't like the first iteration of the Yamaha Silent brass for a similar reason. It stuck out so far that it made playing for long than a few minutes a real chore for me.

Bucket mutes also don't really take much off the sound either... although they do seem to reduce the "cutting" over tones so you can kind of play a little louder because the sound won't penetrate through walls as much as something like a Best Brass or a straight mute.
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 14, 2017, 11:59AM »

Is a bucket mute heavy?


It's true. It is heavy, but weight wasn't one of the parameters of the question.  :D

Due to an ebay mishap I actually use a Euphonium bucket mute and it's extra heavy.

Simple solution...



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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #23 on: Nov 14, 2017, 12:20PM »

Yeah, the bucket mute is not the answer. I use the Easy Bucket, which is good as a bucket, but I wouldn't use it for anything else. I'm telling you, the Yamaha Silent Brass is the thing. The second generation that is small, not the one that looks like a bowling pin.

If you want a mute to be more free blowing, drill a couple holes in it.
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Dixieland57
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« Reply #24 on: Nov 15, 2017, 11:05AM »

Are the voigt mute and the maslet the same?
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 22, 2017, 07:42AM »

I have both the Bremmer Sshhhhmute, and the yamaha silent brass.  Without using the headphones, Bremmer is the way to go.  The yamaha is odd by itself.

The key to using both of these is to not play above a mezzoforte.  otherwise your chops aren't really getting proper practice and keeping their shape due to backpressure. 

these mutes aren't meant to be fully utilized at higher volumes.
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 09, 2017, 09:53AM »

The Mike McLean Pianissimo mute does exactly what I was hoping for: it's quiet enough to be courteous but doesn't effect intonation or response much. With the Silent Brass or Wallace mutes, I always felt like I was playing a mute, rather than the trombone. With the McLean, it's just quieter--and a bit heavier than no mute, of course. McLean offers compact practice mutes as well, but I've only tried the Pianissimo.
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 12, 2017, 10:23AM »

As a practise mute that is free blowing and in tune, the Bremner Sshhmute is great.

Also, I use a Denis Wick practise mute, which is a little bit louder than the Sshhmute and it is also O.K.

Denis Wick cup mute with adjustable cup could be another option for you to try.
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