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Author Topic: Shoplifting in China  (Read 363 times)
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Doug Elliott
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« on: Nov 13, 2017, 12:48PM »

Should Americans who misbehave in any foreign country get off just because they're Americans?
Should the President intervene?
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 13, 2017, 01:02PM »

"Misbehave" might be a little broad, but with respect to the particular misdemeanor referenced in your post:

No and no.
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 13, 2017, 01:15PM »

They're lucky they weren't visiting North Korea.

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Should the President intervene?

If it were me I'd hope he would but...this report from last year says there are about 90 Americans in Chinese jail serving various sentences, so it would be a complicated mess to do it for some and not for others and if he did the Chinese are going to want something in return.

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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #3 on: Nov 13, 2017, 01:27PM »

Americans travelling abroad should understand that they are visiting a foreign country and should obey all laws.

The US Government should only intervene for Americans on trumped-up charges, like the hikers who lost their bearings in Afghanistan and wound up in Iran and were captured and charged as spies.
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 13, 2017, 02:32PM »

OK, "misbehave" is the wrong way to put it.
I think everyone knows that something like shoplifting is a crime, anywhere. 
Even sports figures, entertainers, and politicians who don't seem to know how to act in general.
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 13, 2017, 02:38PM »

The minimum is 3 years. Ouch.

‘Big Baller’ LiAngelo Ball Could Get Big Prison Time For Shoplifting In China

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If the arrest holds up and the UCLA trio is convicted, Ball, Hill and Riley could face harsh punishment in a country that is [renown] for its zero tolerance penal code. Shoplifting in China carries a minimum sentence of three years in prison and a maximum sentence of a decade, according to the Criminal Law of the People’s Republic of China.


I wonder what, if any, pre-trip talks they were given about foreign legal peril.


WaPo has a more nuanced take...

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How big of a deal it is, exactly, remains to be seen. The maximum sentence for stealing goods in China varies, depending on the value of what has been alleged to be stolen. Stealing goods worth between 1,000 and 2,500 yuan ($150 to $380), for example, comes with a maximum sentence of six months but could result in merely a fine.

Anyone convicted of stealing goods for more than that amount, however, would face jail time. Someone convicted of stealing goods worth between 7,000 and 10,000 yuan ($1,050 to $1,510) would face between two and three years in jail under Chinese law.

Louis Vuitton men’s sunglasses cost $435 to $1,990, according to the company’s U.S. website.

According to the website China Law Translate, shoplifting can be considered either a crime or an administrative violation, and the penalty handed down can vary greatly.

That the players involved are teenagers could reduce the severity, as well as whether they show a willingness to make the situation right. That could include displaying forgiveness, paying compensation and admitting wrongdoing.

I don't think that reporter is using "forgiveness" right.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #6 on: Nov 13, 2017, 02:48PM »

Remorse?

Remember this guy?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 13, 2017, 03:07PM »

Yes, that's why I posted this.
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robcat2075

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« Reply #8 on: Nov 14, 2017, 10:01AM »

Looks like they've been released and are out of China. I'm surprised this passed so quickly.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #9 on: Nov 14, 2017, 10:28AM »

Looks like they've been released and are out of China. I'm surprised this passed so quickly.
Right now, they have Trump well placated. I doubt they want anything to muddy the waters at the moment, especially something on such a small level.
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 14, 2017, 10:42AM »

I would think any time you're in any new situation you look around and act with some awareness of the norms around you.

It wouldn't have to be as extreme as committing crimes.

When you sit in with a new band, you could notice whether the standard of conduct is to quietly prepare, or to socialize, or to blast away with showoff warmups.  I've seen variations on all, and I've seen newcomers blissfully unaware of how badly they're fitting in - as well as people who take one look and conform easily. 

When we were in Europe we noticed locals tended to converse quietly, with consideration for their surroundings, and <sigh> you could always tell the Americans by the volume of their voices, and the discarded litter. 
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 14, 2017, 10:46AM »

And the missing sunglasses or other merchandise?
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 14, 2017, 10:48AM »

Reminds me of the Otto Warmbier case.

Still saddens me to think about it.
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 14, 2017, 10:52AM »

You mean Otto?

One was trumped-up charges and the other was Trumped-down charges.
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 15, 2017, 10:42AM »

Not to be upstaged by anyone, President "It's All About Me" has now Tweeted:

@realDonaldTrump

Do you think the three UCLA Basketball Players will say thank you President Trump? They were headed for 10 years in jail!
7:11 AM - Nov 15, 2017
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