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Graham Martin
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« on: Nov 14, 2017, 02:53PM »

Soon we will hear how the same-sex marriage plebiscite turned out. At 10am we will know if Australians have voted to legalise same-sex marriage or if things will stay the same. This whole thing is very political and could even cause our PM to lose his job if he does not observe the requirements of the conservative wing of the ruling Liberal party.

Personally, I think it will be a big 'Yes' vote and the Government will be in a lot of trouble if it does not observe the wishes of the people fully.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-15/live-blog-same-sex-marriage-survey-results-ssm/9134066

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-15/same-sex-marriage-survey-result-malcolm-turnbull-arriving-home/9150998
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Grah

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« Reply #1 on: Nov 14, 2017, 03:48PM »

An excerpt from Ellen DeGeneres' letter to the US Supreme Court:

"Portia and I have been married for 4 years and they have been the happiest of my life. And in those 4 years, I don't think we hurt anyone else's marriage. I asked all of my neighbors and they say they're fine."
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 14, 2017, 03:58PM »

I find it hypocritical that so may people defending the "sanctity of marriage" have been divorced multiple times and/or had affairs outside marriage. 
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Graham Martin
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 14, 2017, 04:22PM »

Australians have voted in favour of allowing same-sex couples to get married. Same-sex marriage will be legalised by Christmas if the Turnbull Government sticks to its promise.

61.6 per cent of the nation voted 'Yes' to legalising same-sex marriage. The final count was 7.8 million responses in support of same-sex marriage, and 4.9 million against. The final number of responses was 12,727,920 people, representing 79 per cent of eligible Australians.

I am not surprised that 21% of Australians did not care enough to vote. Actually, I thought it would be higher.

Now comes the interesting part in putting together a bill for the rules of SSM, particularly in regard to what action will still be allowed from religious organisations, marriage celebrants etc. if they do not agree with SSM.
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 14, 2017, 04:31PM »

You're gonna need a cake decorators exception.
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 14, 2017, 06:03PM »

You're gonna need a cake decorators exception.

Don't worry. That has already and specifically been mentioned. :D

As a matter of fact, I am very familiar with the art of cake decorating for weddings. My mum used to do it to earn a few extra shillings when my dad was in the army during WW2, and afterwards for many years. I got to lick out the icing bowl. :)
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Grah

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« Reply #6 on: Nov 14, 2017, 06:22PM »

After all the hoopla, you may be surprised how quickly SSM becomes a non-issue.
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 14, 2017, 09:27PM »

Well, it's always been a culturally manufactured 'issue'.  Humans are taught to hate.  If we lack something to hate we invent things to hate.
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 15, 2017, 04:58AM »

After all the hoopla, you may be surprised how quickly SSM becomes a non-issue.

It's kinda hard to imagine why it's such an issue to begin with.
 
Apparently many of the rare literate pastoralist writers in the Bronze Age had personal issues with The Gay (we just have to guess on the specifics) and so now we still have those who have "issues" with The Gay, and we also have a whole lot of those who are followers of the rare literate Bronze Age pastoralist writers and so have "issues" with The Gay more or less because they're told to (aside from authoritarian types who need enemies to hate, at least most of the "issues" by command types are pretty low key even if still inclined to try and impose their own "issues" on everyone else).
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 15, 2017, 06:27AM »

It's interesting to note that Konrad Lorenz, in his study about Greylag Geese, found that they had a small percentage of same-sex "marriage" (partnering).  It seems to occur elsewhere in nature as well as among humans.

The percentage is so small that it really doesn't affect the survival of the species (geese or human) so what difference should it make?
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 15, 2017, 07:23AM »

Homosexuality is perfectly natural.  It occurs frequently in many, many species.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

Same can be said for bi-sexuality.  Gender reassignment is not even unheard of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_reed_frog
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 15, 2017, 07:59AM »

Congratulations, Gay Australia! But I'll warn ya, it's never as much fun as the brochures make it look.
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 15, 2017, 08:19AM »

Put another shrimp on the barbie.
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 15, 2017, 03:11PM »

I thought the big news yesterday was that we got into the World Cup.  Suck eggs America Evil

But seriously, if gay marriage reduces the gay suicide and depression rate and bullying of kids then that's good.
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 15, 2017, 11:09PM »

It’s surprising to me that the majority supported gay marriage in a plebiscite.
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« Reply #15 on: Nov 16, 2017, 01:13AM »

It’s surprising to me that the majority supported gay marriage in a plebiscite.


How so?


Also hope they remember to revise the divorce laws, as the first same sex couple to marry in the UK following the change tried to divorce a year later and only then did it become apparent that wasn't legal...so oops and the divorce laws had to be changed quickly too!
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 16, 2017, 05:43AM »

Put another shrimp on the barbie.

It used to be put another Ken on the Barbie.
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Martin Hubel
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 16, 2017, 05:57AM »

It used to be put another Ken on the Barbie.
Does that mean it may be "put another Barbie on the Barbie" now?
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 16, 2017, 07:18AM »

Quote
Also hope they remember to revise the divorce laws, as the first same sex couple to marry in the UK following the change tried to divorce a year later and only then did it become apparent that wasn't legal...so oops and the divorce laws had to be changed quickly too!

AFAIK divorce in England is now on the same basis as hetero couples. However, if 'adultery' is given as the basis, then it has to be between a couple of the opposite sex.

Quote
The applicant must clearly explain the basis of their application and the reasons (called facts) that can be given are:

Adultery – this reason is only available for divorce, and specifically refers to ‘sexual intercourse with someone of the opposite sex outside marriage’
Unreasonable behaviour – can include having a sexual relationship with someone else, regardless of their gender
Two years separation, with consent from the respondent
Five years separation
Four years desertion
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« Reply #19 on: Nov 16, 2017, 07:24AM »

AFAIK divorce in England is now on the same basis as hetero couples. However, if 'adultery' is given as the basis, then it has to be between a couple of the opposite sex.


That's interesting. Why didn't adultery's definition change when they changed the definition of marriage?
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 16, 2017, 07:34AM »

The bigger question is... why didn't same-sex cheating count as "adultery" before the marriage law was changed?
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« Reply #21 on: Nov 16, 2017, 08:14AM »


How so?


Also hope they remember to revise the divorce laws, as the first same sex couple to marry in the UK following the change tried to divorce a year later and only then did it become apparent that wasn't legal...so oops and the divorce laws had to be changed quickly too!

Because you can't count on the majority to protect minority rights.
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 16, 2017, 08:30AM »

The bigger question is... why didn't same-sex cheating count as "adultery" before the marriage law was changed?
Adultery would have to be between a married person and someone who is not that person's spouse.  Since there was no same-sex marriage before the laws changed, there was no same-sex adultery - by definition - so it was just good ol' cheatin'.  Unless of course, the married person is cheating with a same-sex person outside the marriage.  It would be same-sex cheating, but still just adultery.  Or maybe not if the adultery laws require partners of opposite sex.

Wait - I don't think I know what I'm talking about.  This is just confusing.  I guess it boils down to the how the laws are written in the jurisdiction in which the marriage is registered - or would it be the laws where the deed was done?  Don't know

I'm just all for keeping out of other people's bedrooms.
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« Reply #23 on: Nov 16, 2017, 09:28AM »

Maybe it's like this... sex with the same sex wasn't considered sex, it was an abomination!

Since sex officially existed only for procreation, same-sex didn't qualify. It would be lumped with other criminal deviancy, like masturbating.

Still bad, still grounds for divorce, but not within the understanding of what sex was.

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« Reply #24 on: Nov 16, 2017, 09:32AM »

'There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation': P E Trudeau, prime minister of Canada, 1968.
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Graham Martin
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 23, 2017, 02:43PM »

If the week beginning December 4 goes according to the Australian Government's plans, we are likely to see the Lower House pass the Dean Smith bill to legalise same-sex marriage. However, this is by no means certain, because we are going through a constitutional crisis about dual citizenship that has already seen nine senators and MPs booted out of Parliament by the High Court. So, who knows if they will even get time to debate SSM or where the numbers will lie with a Government that already has no majority to speak of.
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Grah

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Graham Martin
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« Reply #26 on: Nov 27, 2017, 02:12PM »

You're gonna need a cake decorators exception.

Debate on the SSM issue goes on an on. Latest of a range of amendments to Liberal Dean Smith's same-sex marriage bill to be discussed in the Senate this week is that Bakers, florists and other service providers will not be exempt from discrimination laws, meaning they will not be allowed to refuse to provide services for same-sex weddings.

There are a lot of issues still to be agreed and I can't see all of them being agreed by the politicians so that Parliament can enact something before Christmas.
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Grah

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« Reply #27 on: Nov 28, 2017, 10:19PM »

Aha, some progress! The bill to legalise same-sex marriage has now been passed by the Australian Senate. However, it cannot progress because the sitting week of the House of Representatives was cancelled by the PM, who was frightened at not having proper majority due to the Dual Citizenship saga. Therefore debate will not continue until Monday next week.

The Bill passed the Senate without amendments.

It is now possible that same-sex marriage will be legalised by Christmas.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-29/same-sex-marriage-bill-passes-senate/9202478
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« Reply #28 on: Nov 29, 2017, 01:42AM »

Aha, some progress! The bill to legalise same-sex marriage has now been passed by the Australian Senate. However, it cannot progress because the sitting week of the House of Representatives was cancelled by the PM, who was frightened at not having proper majority due to the Dual Citizenship saga. Therefore debate will not continue until Monday next week.

The Bill passed the Senate without amendments.

It is now possible that same-sex marriage will be legalised by Christmas.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-29/same-sex-marriage-bill-passes-senate/9202478



Let's hope it is passed, a great present for those same sex couples wishing to marry!
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 06, 2017, 02:10PM »

After a lot of very bitter debate from the ultra conservatives, the Same-Sex Marriage Bill looks like it will be passed in the House of Representatives today, without amendments as it did in the Upper House. It will almost certainly be legal in just a few days time.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-07/same-sex-marriage-bill-looks-set-to-pass-parliament/9233818

It was just stupid that the Government spent so much money on the plebiscite, when it could have been put straight to Parliament as they are now doing. Yeah, RIGHT.
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Grah

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« Reply #30 on: Dec 06, 2017, 04:20PM »

Austria have just passed a similar bill making it 12 countries in Europe to pass such a lW!!
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« Reply #31 on: Dec 07, 2017, 12:48AM »

It's a goer! The Same-sex marriage bill was passed on final sitting day of the year. So, Same-sex marriage will be legal in Australia with Parliament agreeing to change the Marriage Act and end the ban on gay and lesbian couples marrying.

Amendments designed to boost religious protections have been defeated. Good!
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« Reply #32 on: Dec 07, 2017, 05:09AM »

 Good!

This is good!

I just don't understand why it's even a thing.  Seems to me strange for a government to spend time on who people get to love.  Aren't there more important matters to deal with, like unemployment, homelessness and poverty, rather than who is sleeping with who, or who wants to marry who?

It seems we (humans) have a long way to go.
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« Reply #33 on: Dec 07, 2017, 05:26PM »

The Same-sex marriage bill was signed into law by Governor-General today.

Couples who have already married overseas will have their relationships recognised in Australia from midnight tonight, and the first same-sex weddings will be able to happen a month from tomorrow.

So that just about finishes this topic.
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« Reply #34 on: Dec 07, 2017, 06:14PM »

Congrats.  I really think the institution of marriage will survive, much to the consternation of the religious zealots.
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