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Nanook

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« on: Nov 24, 2017, 03:15PM »

So I'm thinking about asking for a gold rimmed mouth piece for Christmas...Bach 6 3/4 from Global Band Supply out of San Jose Calif. It goes for $133 including shipping...Has anyone done business with this outfit? and is this a fair price? Other suggestions of where I might purchase one would be appreciated...

Nanook
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Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 24, 2017, 03:34PM »

Anderson Silver Plating, in Elkhart, IN
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 24, 2017, 05:09PM »

Switch to Doug  Elliott mouthpieces.  You can keep your favourite configuration and change rim material at will.
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 24, 2017, 05:50PM »

Anderson Silver Plating, in Elkhart, IN

I've been under the impression that Anderson doesn't do singles.  You'd have to have a tech send it out with a bunch of others.

There is an outfit called "Goldchops" that plates rims.  Seem to have mixed reviews on here.

Mouthpiece Express offers both gold rim and full gold plate versions for about the same cost.  I've seen them on Ebay for between $125 and $150.  You can get a new 6 3/4 C that way.
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 24, 2017, 06:19PM »

I would send a mouthpiece that I know I like to Stork for plating...
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 25, 2017, 03:19AM »

Stork, Hammond, and Doing Elliott seem to get consistently good reviews about the quality of their gold plating. They don't do the plating themselves but send batches to be plated and do prep work. I've used Doug in the past and the plating quality was very good. Price should be south of $133 although maybe the price of gold has risen a lot recently.
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 25, 2017, 05:29AM »

I've been under the impression that Anderson doesn't do singles.  You'd have to have a tech send it out with a bunch of others.

When I was having my mouthpieces plated, I did get a quote from them for a single piece. Of course that was 6 or 7 years ago, so this might have changed.

In retrospect, I should have gone with them rather than try to save money buy having it done locally. The plating I got didn't last. Anderson will strip the existing plating, buff the piece and replate the whole thing. More costly but the plating holds. They will plate over existing finish, but will not offer a warranty on the end result.
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 25, 2017, 06:00AM »

Here's the thing. Say I have a mpc I really like, so I want to have the rim gold-plated. I could simply buy it new that way, but how the heck would I know if I would like it as well as the silver-plated one? Doesn't that fear kinda back us into having one we really like stripped and gold-plated?

...Geezer
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 25, 2017, 07:20AM »

Here's the thing. Say I have a mpc I really like, so I want to have the rim gold-plated. I could simply buy it new that way, but how the heck would I know if I would like it as well as the silver-plated one? Doesn't that fear kinda back us into having one we really like stripped and gold-plated?

...Geezer

...which also might completely change the mouthpiece.
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 25, 2017, 07:27AM »

...which also might completely change the mouthpiece.

True.

John, is there a particular reason you want the rim gold plated? (also, rim only, not rim and cup?)
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 25, 2017, 07:30AM »

Here's the thing. Say I have a mpc I really like, so I want to have the rim gold-plated. I could simply buy it new that way, but how the heck would I know if I would like it as well as the silver-plated one? Doesn't that fear kinda back us into having one we really like stripped and gold-plated?

...Geezer

I get it, but I've only been on this MP for a little over a year, and I don't think I'm really good enough yet to tell the small difference...I do like a slippery mouth piece, and I heard gold rims are a bit more slippery... I sent an e mail off to Anderson, they seem to know their stuff, I'll let you guys know what they say about doing a single MP...Also my wife is thrilled that I asked for something for Christmas, and I wouldn't want to disappoint the wife...I'm  doing the cup also

Nanook
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 25, 2017, 07:55AM »

If someone has been on the horn for 20 years or more, then a different mpc of the exact same size might have this, that or another thing "wrong" with it. But for us lessers, we would probably just make the adjustment and honk on. Maybe same for one we have & like that gets stripped & re-plated.

Anyway, if Nanook thinks he likes the slippy feel of a gold rim, what the heck. After all, he is doing it for his wife. What a guy!

Thank you! You have inspired me! MY wife is getting a new laptop for gaming but I - like you - didn't want anything. However, I just ordered myself a Bach 12 rim gold-plated mpc for use with my newly-refinished King 2B. I don't care much one way or the other about the slippy feel of a gold rim. I just wanted it so that - with the newly refinished King 2B and black leather hand grips, it will look totally bad-ass. I'm going for the "look".  Way cool

...Geezer
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 27, 2017, 01:11PM »

I heard back from Anderson, here's what they sent me....I decided to go with Mouthpiece express $117 including new bach MP and shipping and tax....



Good afternoon John
    The starting estimate to strip , buff , silver plate with gold rim & cup
is $ 115 plus shipping & handling.
The turn around time is 2 - 4 weeks depending on in house work load &
holidays.
We will be doing shop maintenance the last week of Dec. thru Jan. 2 .
We will still be here to accept boxes and we open them in the order they are
received.
Just make sure to put your contact info in the box along with what you want
done and ship here to;
Anderson Silver Plating
541 Industrial Parkway
Elkhart IN 46516
Thanks Tony
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« Last Edit: Nov 27, 2017, 06:50PM by Nanook » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: Nov 27, 2017, 06:10PM »

I heard back from Anderson, here's what they went me....I decided to go with Mouthpiece express $117 including new bach MP and shipping and tax....



Good afternoon John
    The starting estimate to strip , buff , silver plate with gold rim & cup
is $ 115 plus shipping & handling.
The turn around time is 2 - 4 weeks depending on in house work load &
holidays.
We will be doing shop maintenance the last week of Dec. thru Jan. 2 .
We will still be here to accept boxes and we open them in the order they are
received.
Just make sure to put your contact info in the box along with what you want
done and ship here to;
Anderson Silver Plating
541 Industrial Parkway
Elkhart IN 46516
Thanks Tony
ASP


Interesting! I just found the quote they sent me when I was having my stuff plated. August 2011, $125. Oddly, their price went down, after 6 years. Surprising
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Maximilien Brisson
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 27, 2017, 08:43PM »

Interesting thread... Just last week I decided to re-plate and put some gold down.

There's a place in SLC, UT that has a reputation for good plating. And they plate mouthpieces all the time. I believe they are the sub-contractor to some other online companies that send them in.

I had three 6 1/2AL's laying around, so last week I went in and spent 30 minutes talking about the thickness of the sliver plate they'll put down and the thickness of the gold that will go on top of the silver --as well as where I wanted it masked.

Economy of scale, to strip, buff/polish, re-silver plate and then gold plate the rim/bowl it was $110 for two. And $150 for 3. He said all the time is in the buffing/prep work and if they are set up to do two, it is easier to do a 3rd.

It'll be interesting to see how they look and feel when the come back.

All that said, there's nothing like the certainty in buying one new, from a source where you know what you're going to get.
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« Reply #15 on: Nov 28, 2017, 07:47AM »

I don't blame anyone for getting the best price quote they can get. Personally, I don't know about switching to a gold-plated rim. I might not like it, so I prefer to take it one mpc at a time.

...Geezer
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 28, 2017, 08:36AM »

Interesting thread... Just last week I decided to re-plate and put some gold down.

There's a place in SLC, UT that has a reputation for good plating. And they plate mouthpieces all the time. I believe they are the sub-contractor to some other online companies that send them in.

I had three 6 1/2AL's laying around, so last week I went in and spent 30 minutes talking about the thickness of the sliver plate they'll put down and the thickness of the gold that will go on top of the silver --as well as where I wanted it masked.

Economy of scale, to strip, buff/polish, re-silver plate and then gold plate the rim/bowl it was $110 for two. And $150 for 3. He said all the time is in the buffing/prep work and if they are set up to do two, it is easier to do a 3rd.

It'll be interesting to see how they look and feel when the come back.

All that said, there's nothing like the certainty in buying one new, from a source where you know what you're going to get.

I needed the services of a local gold plater for my job and decided to see if he could do mouthpieces.  He told me his shop had a $150 minimum, but they would be $45 each.  So one, two, or three would be $150 while four would be $180.  I didn't have enough to make three, much less four so I let that one go.  He did a nice job on the electrodes I needed, though.
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 28, 2017, 11:46AM »

I needed the services of a local gold plater for my job and decided to see if he could do mouthpieces.  He told me his shop had a $150 minimum, but they would be $45 each.  So one, two, or three would be $150 while four would be $180.  I didn't have enough to make three, much less four so I let that one go.  He did a nice job on the electrodes I needed, though.

Yeah, I didn't think about a minimum, and of course most shops will have one. That makes it even more challenging to get just one done, locally.
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 28, 2017, 08:16PM »

I don't blame anyone for getting the best price quote they can get. Personally, I don't know about switching to a gold-plated rim. I might not like it, so I prefer to take it one mpc at a time.

...Geezer
Try one Geezer.  They are pretty nice.  For me they are, umm ... 30% better than silver.  Not enough for me to part with the extra for a new gold plated piece, but I certainly favor them if fortune provides me with a choice.
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« Reply #19 on: Nov 29, 2017, 05:01AM »

Try one Geezer.  They are pretty nice.  For me they are, umm ... 30% better than silver.  Not enough for me to part with the extra for a new gold plated piece, but I certainly favor them if fortune provides me with a choice.

I have a Bach 12 on order. I should get it in a couple of weeks. If I like it, then next up would be a Bach 7. I like switching rim sizes. When I do, it feels like my chops are on holiday from the previous rim size; like switching from loafers to running shoes and back. Both feel good, but it's nice to have different choices for different occasions. Same with horns.

I am optimistic I will like the gold rim on a Bach b/c I liked it on a mpc from a different manufacturer; I just didn't like the mpc. Not much for me to go on in making this decision, but enough. AND I really like the look of the gold-rimmed mpcs. That has to count for something! lol

...Geezer
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 29, 2017, 08:02AM »

Try one Geezer.  They are pretty nice.  For me they are, umm ... 30% better than silver.  Not enough for me to part with the extra for a new gold plated piece, but I certainly favor them if fortune provides me with a choice.

This is almost exactly my thoughts on the subject.  (I would need to calibrate the 30%, but it sounds pretty close.)  I love the feel of my gold plated  Denis Wick 4ABL, but if I had to replace the mouthpiece, I don't know how much extra I would be willing to pay for the gold plate. 
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« Reply #21 on: Nov 29, 2017, 10:28AM »

Interesting thread... Just last week I decided to re-plate and put some gold down.

There's a place in SLC, UT that has a reputation for good plating. And they plate mouthpieces all the time. I believe they are the sub-contractor to some other online companies that send them in.

I had three 6 1/2AL's laying around, so last week I went in and spent 30 minutes talking about the thickness of the sliver plate they'll put down and the thickness of the gold that will go on top of the silver --as well as where I wanted it masked.

Economy of scale, to strip, buff/polish, re-silver plate and then gold plate the rim/bowl it was $110 for two. And $150 for 3. He said all the time is in the buffing/prep work and if they are set up to do two, it is easier to do a 3rd.



It'll be interesting to see how they look and feel when the come back.

All that said, there's nothing like the certainty in buying one new, from a source where you know what you're going to get.

If the shop does a good job, it would be interesting to consider pooling our collective resources and send some MP's to him as a group to get the $50 per MP price...I'd be willing to do that for sure...Tough to beat that price...
Nanook
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 29, 2017, 10:34AM »

If the shop does a good job, it would be interesting to consider pooling our collective resources and send some MP's to him as a group to get the $50 per MP price...I'd be willing to do that for sure...Tough to beat that price...
Nanook

For sure. Once they're back, I'll post up some pics and use them for a while --to see if there are any issues. If all goes well, I was thinking the same thing. I have a couple local friends that sound interested as well. It doesn't sound like it be difficult to get another batch together.
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« Reply #23 on: Nov 29, 2017, 11:11AM »

Gold plating is nice for a number of reasons:

1.  Some are allergic to silver and the gold may be a better alternative.  Stainless Steel and Titanium may be better still.

2.  There is the "bling" aspect.  It sure looks nice.  A gold rim on a silver cup is especially snazzy.

3.  Gold is more "slippery" than silver.  If you find the silver mouthpiece is "locking" your embouchure you may find the gold is less obstructive.  Note that Lexan is even less slippery than silver.

4.  Gold seems to attract less biomass than silver.  The mouthpiece stays cleaner.

Does it affect playing?  Maybe in respect to #3 above, but probably for no other reason.
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« Reply #24 on: Nov 30, 2017, 10:47AM »

Got my new Bach 12 gold-rimmed mpc today. Now this bad-boy is stylin'!



I'll give the new mpc a test blow this evening. If all is well, one down and one to go.

As I think Bruce mentioned, how you feel about your equipment can translate into how well you can play on it. Some guys like vintage horns with a ton of patina and a few well-placed dings. I think there is a lot to be said for coaxing beautiful sounds out of "ugly" equipment, same as can be said about liking shiny, flashy equipment.

I don't know if the slippy feeling of a gold-rimmed mpc will do anything for me or not, but I know I like how the rascal looks!

And if it makes me feel good, then maybe it will be a better interface between me and my horn than a "plain" one of the same size, etc.

...Geezer
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« Reply #25 on: Nov 30, 2017, 05:10PM »

Okay. It's fine (see above). But there is a slight variation between my silver 12 and this new gold-rimmed 12. I don't see it as a big deal; I just made the adjustment to it and off I went. However, those of you who have THE perfect mpc and will live & die by it, might take a risk by sending off for a new one of it's kind in gold-rim. Just sayin'...

But I personally didn't see any advantage to the gold rim on the first blow. None at all. I mean, other than it looks cool. That's worth something. Then again, I'm not a million-dollar player, either...

...Geezer
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« Reply #26 on: Nov 30, 2017, 05:23PM »

Okay. It's fine (see above). But there is a slight variation between my silver 12 and this new gold-rimmed 12. I don't see it as a big deal; I just made the adjustment to it and off I went. However, those of you who have THE perfect mpc and will live & die by it, might take a risk by sending off for a new one of it's kind in gold-rim. Just sayin'...

But I personally didn't see any advantage to the gold rim on the first blow. None at all. I mean, other than it looks cool. That's worth something. Then again, I'm not a million-dollar player, either...

...Geezer

My short previous experience with a gold rim was that it felt softer/smoother. It seemed to result in better stamina.
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« Reply #27 on: Nov 30, 2017, 05:48PM »

My short previous experience with a gold rim was that it felt softer/smoother. It seemed to result in better stamina.


Okay. That will be something to watch for as it gets more play-time. There probably isn't a 'bone-player alive who wouldn't want more endurance.

...Geezer
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 01, 2017, 01:21PM »

Got my new Bach 12 gold-rimmed mpc today. Now this bad-boy is stylin'!



I'll give the new mpc a test blow this evening. If all is well, one down and one to go.

As I think Bruce mentioned, how you feel about your equipment can translate into how well you can play on it. Some guys like vintage horns with a ton of patina and a few well-placed dings. I think there is a lot to be said for coaxing beautiful sounds out of "ugly" equipment, same as can be said about liking shiny, flashy equipment.

I don't know if the slippy feeling of a gold-rimmed mpc will do anything for me or not, but I know I like how the rascal looks!

And if it makes me feel good, then maybe it will be a better interface between me and my horn than a "plain" one of the same size, etc.

...Geezer
Geezer, after you've done you exercises on IGSOY, you might want to put in a little practice on taking photos where something ... anything ... is in focus. Evil

Does look sweet though!
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 01, 2017, 02:12PM »

Geezer, after you've done you exercises on IGSOY, you might want to put in a little practice on taking photos where something ... anything ... is in focus. Evil

Does look sweet though!

Aww shucks. I didn't know anyone cared!

Here's a more in-focus pic:



A Bach 7 gold-rimmed mpc is now on order for my King 3B/F, as well as a used CL4 for my 4B/F as a test. It will take me a few months to figure out if it's a keeper or not and if so, I might spring for a new gold one for my birthday. Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to me!

I hope those who have a gold-rimmed mpc of any size on order will be happy with it - for whatever reason they have!

...Geezer
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« Reply #30 on: Dec 01, 2017, 02:53PM »

Aww shucks. I didn't know anyone cared!

Here's a more in-focus pic:



A Bach 7 gold-rimmed mpc is now on order for my King 3B/F, as well as a used CL5 for my 4B/F as a test. It will take me a few months to figure out if it's a keeper or not and if so, I might spring for a new gold one for my birthday. Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to me!

I hope those who have a gold-rimmed mpc of any size on order will be happy with it - for whatever reason they have!

...Geezer;:
Much better.  That 2B looks like it's on cloud 9.
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« Reply #31 on: Dec 05, 2017, 07:46AM »

If I had the choice, I'd go Anderson Silver  Plating. I've used them for a mouthpiece before. Higher quality of work than  mouthpiece Express. I have a  mouthpiece from Mouthpiece Express and the gold plating wore off rather quickly. In fact, it is so faded now you'd never know it was gold plated.

 Even better is Doug Elliott. I don't know who he uses, but he has the best gold plating I've ever seen.
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« Reply #32 on: Dec 05, 2017, 10:38AM »

Interesting! I just found the quote they sent me when I was having my stuff plated. August 2011, $125. Oddly, their price went down, after 6 years. Surprising

Gold was about 20% higher in 2011 than it is now. I'm betting that is the reason...Just a guess...
Nanook
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« Reply #33 on: Dec 05, 2017, 10:49AM »

I did it to have a pretty mouthpiece.

 Idea!
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« Reply #34 on: Dec 05, 2017, 05:56PM »

Gold was about 20% higher in 2011 than it is now. I'm betting that is the reason...Just a guess...
Nanook

That would make lots of sense. So their processing cost went up but the good value went down more so the total is a bit less.
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« Reply #35 on: Dec 12, 2017, 10:37PM »

The plated mouthpieces came back today. They turned out nice. I'll post one of them for sale. But some interesting info; Industry standard for gold plated jewelry is supposed to be 7 millionths of an inch. They often have cheap gold plated jewelry come in to be re-plated and they measure as little as 3 millionths of an inch.

As you can see from this work order, they put down 20 millionths of an inch of gold on the rim of these. They're confident this gold isn't going to wear off.





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« Reply #36 on: Dec 12, 2017, 11:36PM »

I predict it won't last very long at all.  That amount is fine for jewelry but nowhere near enough for something like a mouthpiece that sees daily use and wear.

Not even close.
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« Reply #37 on: Dec 13, 2017, 06:41AM »

I predict it won't last very long at all.  That amount is fine for jewelry but nowhere near enough for something like a mouthpiece that sees daily use and wear.

Not even close.

If you have some data it would be great, otherwise it sounds like opinion? Any thickness can be specified for plating. In talking to the professionals, there are some mouthpiece rims washed at 3 millionths, most are likely plated at 7 millionths. The 20 millionths they suggested should last the life of the player. (20 millionths is considered thick enough to last a lifetime of daily use on watch.)

All that said, if we can learn that most rims are plated at a different thickness, that's what I'll go with. But I understand that anything over 20 millionths begins to noticeably change the dimensions of a part.
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« Reply #38 on: Dec 13, 2017, 06:59AM »

The plated mouthpieces came back today. They turned out nice. I'll post one of them for sale. But some interesting info; Industry standard for gold plated jewelry is supposed to be 7 millionths of an inch. They often have cheap gold plated jewelry come in to be re-plated and they measure as little as 3 millionths of an inch.

As you can see from this work order, they put down 20 millionths of an inch of gold on the rim of these. They're confident this gold isn't going to wear off.



Please keep us posted...This could be a good resource for members in the future...

Nanook
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« Reply #39 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:41AM »

Please keep us posted...This could be a good resource for members in the future...

Nanook

For sure. I played on one last night for quintet. It feels soft & smooth compared to my old silver. I got through a long and strenuous rehearsal feeling good. It would be tough to quantify any endurance increase. But I will say that my lips recovered more quickly afterwards. I didn't have the same irritated chapped feeling I always have after a long session. Plus it looks really nice.
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« Reply #40 on: Dec 13, 2017, 07:55AM »

Well I have more than an opinion, I've been in the business a long time and I've already been through this.
For clarity, the number you're talking about is expressed several different ways, and the durability depends on what else is added to the gold.

20 millionths
.000020 of an inch
20 micro-inches
.5 micron

That thickness is the minimum that can legally be called Gold Plate.

The opinion I do have is that for mouthpieces, gold should be 24k with nothing added because of allergy issues. Chances are the plating you're getting isn't 24k.
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« Reply #41 on: Dec 13, 2017, 09:54AM »

Well I have more than an opinion, I've been in the business a long time and I've already been through this.
For clarity, the number you're talking about is expressed several different ways, and the durability depends on what else is added to the gold.

20 millionths
.000020 of an inch
20 micro-inches
.5 micron

That thickness is the minimum that can legally be called Gold Plate.

The opinion I do have is that for mouthpieces, gold should be 24k with nothing added because of allergy issues. Chances are the plating you're getting isn't 24k.


Ah! It sounds like some assumptions are being made. The first thing this company states on their gold plating services is "We offer 24k plating". That was the first thing I discussed with them. So these are 24k --which not every shop can do, from what I understand.

7 micro-inches is the minimum to be called electroplate and 20 is the minimum to be called plated. Doing some research, is seems that 20 is a common thickness for gold that will be exposed to repeated wear.

I can have them plate as thick as I ask. It's not much more expensive to go thicker. I'm just curious if you have any data on how thick the gold is on "factory" mouthpieces, or by other reputable mouthpiece platers. It seems to be a bit of a guarded secret. Likely because most local places try to get away with the jewelry plating standard of 7 micro-inches.

We'll see how well 20 micro-inches wear. I've heard that the 3 micro-inch gold washes some companies use when "plating" mouthpieces, will wear off after a month or two. 7 micro-inches I bet is what most companies will use. These at 20 I suspect will fare very well. But time will tell.
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« Reply #42 on: Dec 13, 2017, 10:11AM »

"We offer 24k plating" sounds like you have to ask for it.

Do you KNOW that's what you got?
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« Reply #43 on: Dec 13, 2017, 10:19AM »

Back in my circuit board days we made boards for Western Electric.  They had a rather strict standard: 100 microinches of gold over 300 microinches of nickel on all gold fingers.  Western Electric used to require their product to last 40 years in rough service.

Later customers would use 25 microinches of "hard gold" (primarily gold with a trace of nickel or cobalt).  The nickel requirement was reduced to 100 and later 50 microinches.

Surface mount technology requires the gold to last through one soldering cycle (it dissolves into the connection) and thus you can get away with 10 microinches or even less.

Hewlett-Packard, in their glory days, used to like the circuit boards to look expensive and we had to plate 5 millionths of gold on all the circuitry.  Don't know if it did anything for life, but the boards sure looked spiffy.

When I worked at the lab I never had an opportunity to measure gold thickness on a Wick mouthpiece, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the range of 25-50 microinches.  They used to have a peeling problem probably because they didn't use proper plating techniques (barrier layer, strike, then full plate).
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« Reply #44 on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:00AM »

"We offer 24k plating" sounds like you have to ask for it.

Do you KNOW that's what you got?

Well, as I mentioned, that was the first thing we discussed when I went in. These must be done in 24k. Reply; Yes, that's how we do all mouthpieces.

That said, anytime you pay for a service, there has to be some level of trust. When you change your oil and ask for a synthetic, do you test the oil to make sure they used synthetic, or do you trust that they did what you asked?

I believe pawn shops have a test that can tell the purity of a gold, but I think it's slightly destructive. It would be interesting to do...
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« Reply #45 on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:05AM »

Back in my circuit board days we made boards for Western Electric.  They had a rather strict standard: 100 microinches of gold over 300 microinches of nickel on all gold fingers.  Western Electric used to require their product to last 40 years in rough service.

Later customers would use 25 microinches of "hard gold" (primarily gold with a trace of nickel or cobalt).  The nickel requirement was reduced to 100 and later 50 microinches.

Surface mount technology requires the gold to last through one soldering cycle (it dissolves into the connection) and thus you can get away with 10 microinches or even less.

Hewlett-Packard, in their glory days, used to like the circuit boards to look expensive and we had to plate 5 millionths of gold on all the circuitry.  Don't know if it did anything for life, but the boards sure looked spiffy.

When I worked at the lab I never had an opportunity to measure gold thickness on a Wick mouthpiece, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the range of 25-50 microinches.  They used to have a peeling problem probably because they didn't use proper plating techniques (barrier layer, strike, then full plate).

Nice! There so much assumed about plating, gold in particular. Hearing real-world examples in practice is neat! I really want to know what thickness the factory gold mouthpieces are. A new project!

The Trombone forum deserves to know exactly how thick the gold is on factory plated mouthpieces. Step one, obtain a factory plated MP.
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« Reply #46 on: Dec 14, 2017, 07:05AM »

Stay on this W.O. it's a topic worth pursuing...when I mentioned to my instructor that I was going to get a gold rimmed mouth piece he said that it wears off pretty quickly...I got the impression that he didn't think it was worth the money, nor did he notice any real benefits in playing...I've talked to some other players who noticed playing benefits....I'm anxious to form my own opinion.

Nanook
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« Reply #47 on: Dec 14, 2017, 07:37AM »

My experience is there isn't any difference in sound. Gold can be more slippery but I dont notice much difference in feel either. It looks cool but gold or silver is the same for me. For others it might be different?
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« Reply #48 on: Dec 14, 2017, 07:38AM »

Stay on this W.O. it's a topic worth pursuing...when I mentioned to my instructor that I was going to get a gold rimmed mouth piece he said that it wears off pretty quickly...I got the impression that he didn't think it was worth the money, nor did he notice any real benefits in playing...I've talked to some other players who noticed playing benefits....I'm anxious to form my own opinion.

Nanook

I think that is admirable.

Myself, I don't really care how long it lasts on the playing contact surfaces. It's not a deal-breaker for me if it wears off sooner rather than later. As long as it looks pretty on the outside while I'm playing, that's all I really care about.

I am currently juggling 4 different sized rims & cup depths on a daily basis, so I doubt if I'll be able to notice any material playing difference in a gold rim vs a standard rim.

Just out of curiosity, let us know if you do.

...Geezer
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« Reply #49 on: Dec 14, 2017, 07:49AM »

FWIW, good gold plate on a rim doesn't wear off quickly. Doug Elliott rims have pretty thick gold plating that lasts. You can tell it's thick because of the feel and the color, which is not bright (no silver is showing through). Griego gold plated my 1C and I've had that for three years -- only the shank shows signs of wear.

On the other hand, I've seen cheapo gold plating on bach mouthpieces that wears away in less than a year. This is the kind that is bright yellow when you get it.
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« Reply #50 on: Dec 14, 2017, 08:25AM »

My experience is there isn't any difference in sound. Gold can be more slippery but I dont notice much difference in feel either. It looks cool but gold or silver is the same for me. For others it might be different?


Good insight.

My 2nd day on the new gold rim was intense. Individual rehearsal for quintet and then I recorded a swing song full out for 90 minutes, for another band. A lot of playing. The gold is smooth and slippery and feels soft (to me) compared to silver. I played strong the entire time.

All that said... this could be a matter of those who are sensitive to silver feel a rough and less comfortable mouthpiece. My skin is sensitive to everything, So I think the theory is plausible.

For an average-skin player, I wouldn't spend a bunch of extra money on gold. But if you know that you have sensitive skin, the gold might be worth a try.

After two days playing on gold, I'm sold. But I know that not everyone is going to notice a different.
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« Reply #51 on: Dec 14, 2017, 11:32AM »

FWIW, My rule of thumb has been if you find a gold plated mouthpiece you like ,great. I have sent silver plated mouthpieces off to be gold plated and was unhappy with the playing results after I got them back. They didn't respond as well as before.  Too much plating than what was there B4? IDK. I like the feel of gold . I now have a DE  XB 116/M/M10 and it is working out fine. Gold rims are new to me. Are they the best of both worlds?. IDK. Doug Elliott mentions on his site about Rims: A gold plated mouthpiece might feel slightly larger than a same sized silver plated rim, also a plastic rim my feel slightly smaller than a similar sized silver plated rim. ANother FWIW. I hope I paraphrased you correctly MR Elliott. NOw my 3rd FWIW- Despite how Cool it looks or feels it all comes down to how it works. I go with Whatever Works. To Each Their Own. IMHO
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« Reply #52 on: Dec 14, 2017, 12:10PM »

My 4th FWIW: Anytime you change something expect different results. Hopefully after
painstakingly analyzing all the info you make a correct decision and the mod works out for you.
My 5th FWIW. I have recently started gold plating mouthpieces that I liked but I felt were too bright.I did it to a Bach Mt Vernon 2G and a Custom made/modified Hammond Skeletonized 10ML. In both cases I "lucked out". It Tamed them a bit. These are only my opinions and results...........( and does not reflect the opinion of TTF ,Their Members, Its Affiliates and their Subsidies )
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« Reply #53 on: Dec 29, 2017, 06:51AM »

Well I have more than an opinion, I've been in the business a long time and I've already been through this.
For clarity, the number you're talking about is expressed several different ways, and the durability depends on what else is added to the gold.

20 millionths
.000020 of an inch
20 micro-inches
.5 micron

That thickness is the minimum that can legally be called Gold Plate.

The opinion I do have is that for mouthpieces, gold should be 24k with nothing added because of allergy issues. Chances are the plating you're getting isn't 24k.

I posted this on another thread as well, but here was the response I got from the MPE people regarding how thick they lay down the 24 K gold...I told them we were having a discussion on the forum...

Good luck with that discussion :)

The thickness is determined by the time and the current (amperage) used in the cyanide gold bath as well as the density of the dissolved gold. We strive for an average of 80 microinches thick.

I hope that helped.

Robbert Chernault
MouthpieceExpress.com
StarCityMusic.com
Brass5.com
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« Reply #54 on: Dec 29, 2017, 01:07PM »

Thank you for taking the time to ask, and thank you for posting the answer you got  :)
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« Reply #55 on: Dec 29, 2017, 01:20PM »

my ultimate goal is to find the company that does the best job and an acceptable price...As a group we should be able to do that, then pass the information on to the rest of the forum....

Nanook
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« Reply #56 on: Dec 29, 2017, 01:51PM »

This is great info! Thanks for asking them.
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« Reply #57 on: Dec 30, 2017, 09:50AM »

well I received my new 6 3/4 bach gold cup and rim today and did my practice session with it...I didn't notice anything with the slippery quality, but it was unmistakable in aiding my endurance... I was able to move thru my exercises without any fatigue problems...I'm actually shocked at how good my chops feel after my 2 hour practice...Now it still looks cool too, but its worth it to me for just the endurance aspect...Now to see how long the gold plating lasts...My instructor suggested that I use a mirco fiber cloth to wipe it off...I'm very happy so far!!! Cost me $118 total for the job, I think I posted $130 before....

Nanook 
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« Reply #58 on: Dec 30, 2017, 10:41AM »

GREAT!  Good!

OTOH, now you don't have any excuses!  Evil

I bought three "24K" gold rim-plated mpcs: 12, 7 & large shank 5G. Love all three, but I don't notice any improvement b/c of the gold. But then again, my improvement is so greased-lightening fast anyway.  :D

...Geezer
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