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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, Greg Waits) What are the lightest weight Double Rotor Bass Trombones in the marketplace?
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WayneB
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« on: Nov 30, 2017, 02:53PM »

Hi,
Does anyone have a fix, or general ideas, on the weight of the various trombone models out there? I am looking for a Double Rotor Bass that is lighter than my Holton 181 independent.  I spotted a Yamaha YBL 620g on the Dillon Music site that is described as being 22 pounds. This compares to 30 pounds for many of the dependent models, and 35 pounds for many of the independent models on the same Dillon site. Of course this is all speculation as the weight cited is likely shipping weight. Thanks in advance for your insights.
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 30, 2017, 02:58PM »

That's definitely shipping weight in a big ol' case.

Bass trombones are maybe 6, 7 pounds tops? Not sure.

That said, Laetzch makes a lightweight double valve bass. Can't find the model on their website but I can ask a friend if you want to know.
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:00PM »

I think you may be confusing bell gauge with weight.  My dual axial shires weights only 6.2 lbs.

30 pounds even for shipping weight is very high.
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:18PM »

I would look at a Kanstul as a light bass. They have designed minimal bracing, and use light gauge metal. Mine is not in the house at the moment, or I'd weigh it for you. I'd bet there are some light Holtons too.
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:26PM »

Yamaha (especially the newer ones) generally have thinner bell wall. That is what they say on model description, and I have also heard euphonium and tuba player said the same (for those respective instruments, though). Personally, comparing to Bach 50B3L, YBL-830 (the double independent one) feels lighter to hold, but that can be only my bias. The YBL-620G (some market) also have nickel silver slide, which may also be lighter (I am not sure about its gauge).

I agree with Burgerbob and tbathras. A bass trombone cannot weigh more than 3-4kg (6.6-8.8lb) by its own. Even with a BBC (big bad case) it should weight no more than 10kg (22lb).
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WayneB
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:40PM »

That's definitely shipping weight in a big ol' case.

Bass trombones are maybe 6, 7 pounds tops? Not sure.

That said, Laetzch makes a lightweight double valve bass. Can't find the model on their website but I can ask a friend if you want to know.

Well, I got some good laughs from the responses thus far, and its saves me from initating therapy for imagined ailments in the order of lifting things. I did the old weigh in on the bathroom scale with, and without, the  horn in hand. Holton Bass was five and a quarter pounds, and my Yamaha tenor was three and a half. I need to stop listening to others who constantly pick up the Holton and say it is heavy!
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:56PM »

6 pounds isn't heavy, but it can still bee fatiguing to hold in an awkward place for long periods.

Balance is also a factor that can make or break an instrument.
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 30, 2017, 04:05PM »

Yamaha (especially the newer ones) generally have thinner bell wall.



Insightful observation on the thinner bell wall; it works on the newly professionalized 620 tenor.
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 30, 2017, 04:12PM »

I had a Getzen 1052 for a while. I don't know the exact weight, but the balance of it was very good and made it comfortable to play for long periods.
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 30, 2017, 06:53PM »

Kanstul trombones are relatively lightweight compared to other makes. The valves they use have mostly hollow cores, which is part of what does this. They also use thinner bell brass.
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David Sullivan
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 30, 2017, 07:29PM »

Shipping weight on your typical bass in a hard case will be 25 lb. 

I own a 620G.  Quite light and very comfortable.  Ergonomics are fantastic.  I did put a Shire heavyweight bell on it so it definitely has a bit more heft now.
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JasonDonnelly
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 30, 2017, 08:07PM »

If you want stuff as light as possible, you could consider getting a carbon fiber slide. I know that Butler Trombones is making bass slides now.
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 30, 2017, 08:12PM »

Holton's in general are pretty light. I had a Holton TR185 which was much lighter then another friends Bach tenor trombone.
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 30, 2017, 08:50PM »

Balance is more impotant than weight.
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 30, 2017, 09:23PM »

Balance is more important than weight.
What he said.
If the balance isn't right, your muscles have to support the weight and keep the horn at the proper playing angle. Like carrying a ladder - it's a whole lot less work if you're lifting at the balance point.
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« Reply #15 on: Dec 01, 2017, 03:40AM »

As people above have said, balance is key.
The scale weight is only part of the problem.
A heavier trombone that balances well will "feel" lighter than a lighter bass that doesnt balance well.
There are various after market grips that will change where the balance point is whilst playing. These can help by shifting the weight to stronger muscle sets.
It is possible that you could make your 181 feel lighter by adding weight.
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« Reply #16 on: Dec 01, 2017, 04:37AM »

Weight and balance are BOTH important.  The Holton 181 is not particularly heavy, by the way.  The lighter (or lighter feeling) horns I have handled are the Yamahas, Reynolds, and Holtons.
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WayneB
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 01, 2017, 04:38AM »

Shipping weight on your typical bass in a hard case will be 25 lb. 

I own a 620G.  Quite light and very comfortable.  Ergonomics are fantastic.  I did put a Shire heavyweight bell on it so it definitely has a bit more heft now.

Well, for any folks who might have ever expressed concern, in their old age...or otherwise, about relative weight, this post has certainly generated a fountain of ideas on how to address it. The Holton bass, with the bullet brace, has been quite comfortable...but if you can make things even more comfortable, why not try!
Interesting review on the new Yamaha bass six twenty. I have the sister tenor version of this instrument and it plays very well with the thinner bell wall, very responsive with pretty good power...but it would not be my choice if I was in a symphony and had to produce the proverbial Wall of Sound with the section. Superb in  a big band or community band setting, and might do in pinch on the principal part  in a symphony. Long bell taper promotes solid intonation and accuracy.
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WayneB
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 01, 2017, 05:04AM »

Holton's in general are pretty light. I had a Holton TR185 which was much lighter then another friends Bach tenor trombone.

Ed Kleinhammer, one of my teachers at the time, arranged a loan of a 169 to the University of Illinois on my behalf. He also had a 185 prototype (?) as I recall... very good horn in my estimation...but he went the Bach route and I think, never looked back in a serious way at any other brand. You guys are making me feel privileged to have a "light" Holton...count my blessings!
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 01, 2017, 05:20AM »

Other Holtons, the 180 and 185, are generally lighter than the 181. The 181 has too many braces and I don't feel like they're as balanced as other bass trombones. Sometimes it's all about the balance than the weight.
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Holton TR 180 MV 1 and 1/2G
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