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Russ White

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« on: Dec 02, 2017, 05:46AM »

Republicans passed their "tax reform" package throough the Senate in the middle of the night last night after spending the day scribbling in the margins doing re-writes on the fly. This is not a bill, it is a joke, and a cruel one at that. THey are truly worried about losing the Senate seat in Alabama and that Drumpf is coming completely unhinged. I'm going to guess they push the House to pass the Senate bill rather than take a chance of going to conference to try to iron out the massive differences between the bills. THis is the single ugliest thing that has been done in Congress in my lifetime, and that includes some pretty ugly stuff.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-gop-hustles-meet-tax-085039276.html
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 02, 2017, 07:57AM »

I am ashamed of what our country's leadership has become.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 02, 2017, 08:57AM »

One would hope such hostile, micro-lateral, dictatorial maneuvering like this would be a deal breaker for the vast majority, and the GOP would all but completely fail in elections until all who were party to it are gone, but I'm afraid that's quite likely just empty hope with no chance of finding any purchase in the real world. Far too many are selectively oblivious to such things, or just to identifying their sources.
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 02, 2017, 09:23AM »

Why, it's almost as if someone is paying them to govern against the better interests of the nation.
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 02, 2017, 09:28AM »

It all goes back to the corruption of money in politics.  You need SCADS of money to run successfully for office.  More than you could get on a GoFundMe.  So you cultivate lobbyists.  They have money, but also an agenda.  Which may not be in the best interests of your constituents.

In other countries there are limits on how much money can be spent in an election.  Maybe it's time for that here.
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robcat2075

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« Reply #5 on: Dec 02, 2017, 06:12PM »

There's gotta be more to it than money because these guys are all rich... they don't need the government job.

I think someone is holding their dog hostage.
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 03, 2017, 05:37PM »

They have a party leader that is only interested in enriching himself and his family, and who is as corrupt as they come.  These guys see that the leader of their party doesn't get into trouble doing this on the public dime, so they believe its ok and fit and proper to do it themselves.
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Russ White

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« Reply #7 on: Dec 04, 2017, 04:19AM »

The Republicans were tools of the rich long before the Orangutang came to their fore. Yes, the money in politics is one of the highest barriers we have against the truly representative form of a Constitutional Republic envisioned by our Founders. That and gerrymandering. We saw that, yet again in Va. last month. Dems won by more than 8 points and only broke even. That has been the same in every election in the last decade. One has to hope that the efforts Obama and Holder are undertaking are successful.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 04, 2017, 08:15AM »

The Republicans were tools of the rich long before the Orangutang came to their fore. Yes, the money in politics is one of the highest barriers we have against the truly representative form of a Constitutional Republic envisioned by our Founders. That and gerrymandering. We saw that, yet again in Va. last month. Dems won by more than 8 points and only broke even. That has been the same in every election in the last decade. One has to hope that the efforts Obama and Holder are undertaking are successful.

And yet y'all rant against the one president who was elected without lobbyist donors.  Don't know
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 04, 2017, 08:18AM »

And yet y'all rant against the one president who was elected without lobbyist donors.  Don't know

Are you referring to Trump?

 Don't know

If so, he had quite a bit of funding per lobbyists and connected groups. The whole self-funding thing was a lie. He even charged his campaign for using space in trump tower, and then paid for that out of campaign donations... ie, he personally and directly made money off of running for president.
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 04, 2017, 09:11AM »

Notice that this tax bill has no one's name on it, like "Dodd-Frank"?

The Dems need to start calling it the "Trump Tax Bill" and make that stick.

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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #11 on: Dec 04, 2017, 09:17AM »

And yet y'all rant against the one president who was elected without lobbyist donors.  Don't know

You're lying.  Again. 
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« Reply #12 on: Dec 04, 2017, 10:17AM »

You're lying.  Again. 

Prove it.
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« Reply #13 on: Dec 04, 2017, 11:21AM »

Prove it.

Here's 6 to start:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/12/09/the-six-donors-trump-appointed-to-his-administration-gave-almost-12-million-with-their-families-to-his-campaign-and-the-party/?utm_term=.350afc87d0fa

You're lying.  Again.
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 04, 2017, 12:17PM »

And yet y'all rant against the one president who was elected without lobbyist donors.  Don't know


Disproven

Quote
Brian Ballard

In July the Republican National Committee listed Ballard as a State Victory Finance Chair for Florida. He was later featured as a host of two Trump Victory Fund Florida fundraisers. He gave $100,000 to the Trump cause, according to FEC records.

Ballard donated tens of thousands of dollars to support Floridians Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush earlier in the cycle. In 2012 he gave more than $65,000 to support Romney’s bid, and bundled at least $500,000 for John McCain in 2008.

Ballard is president of a lobbying firm based in Florida, and he is a notorious lobbyist for the sugar industry. His firm has also collected at least $580,000 from 2013 to 2015 to lobby the State of Florida, to loosen gambling restrictions on behalf of Donald Trump, according to the Washington Times.

He is not the only lobbyist.  I just pulled the first one on the list to cite here.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #15 on: Dec 04, 2017, 09:53PM »


Not exactly. Unlike Hillary, he won without selling his souls to donors.

"He didn't win the money race, but Donald Trump will be the next president of the U.S. In the primaries and general election, he defied conventional wisdom, besting better financed candidates by dominating the air waves for free. Trump also put to use his own cash, as well as the assets and infrastructure of his businesses, in unprecedented fashion. He donated $66 million of his own money, flew across the country in his private jet, and used his resorts to stage campaign events. At the same time, the billionaire was able to draw about $280 million from small donors giving $200 or less. Super-PACs, which can take contributions unlimited in size, were similarly skewed toward his opponent, Hillary Clinton. Ultimately, Trump won the presidency despite having raised less than any major party presidential nominee since John McCain in 2008, the last to accept federal funds to pay for his general election contest."

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« Reply #16 on: Dec 05, 2017, 03:28AM »

Not exactly. Unlike Hillary, he won without selling his souls to donors.

"He didn't win the money race, but Donald Trump will be the next president of the U.S. In the primaries and general election, he defied conventional wisdom, besting better financed candidates by dominating the air waves for free. Trump also put to use his own cash, as well as the assets and infrastructure of his businesses, in unprecedented fashion. He donated $66 million of his own money, flew across the country in his private jet, and used his resorts to stage campaign events. At the same time, the billionaire was able to draw about $280 million from small donors giving $200 or less. Super-PACs, which can take contributions unlimited in size, were similarly skewed toward his opponent, Hillary Clinton. Ultimately, Trump won the presidency despite having raised less than any major party presidential nominee since John McCain in 2008, the last to accept federal funds to pay for his general election contest."


No.  Exactly.  You’re lying.  You going to cry about it now too?   That’s all you do.  Lie, then cry.  Then lie, then cry.  I’m not as easily distracted as you clearly are.  He took money from lobbyists, we proved it, you were wrong.  You either learn from that, or be the little snowflake you clearly are and keep telling the lie louder.
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« Reply #17 on: Dec 05, 2017, 05:04AM »

Not only did he take money from lobbyists, he took those donations from those little folks and put it directly into his own pocket by charging his campaign for all of those venues he used and the use of his plane. It amazes me how hard it is for some people to recognize the degree of larceny this "so-called" President is committing on a day to day basis. I would never have believed the stupid in this country runs as wide and deep as it evidently does.
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« Reply #18 on: Dec 05, 2017, 05:53AM »

Not only did he take money from lobbyists, he took those donations from those little folks and put it directly into his own pocket by charging his campaign for all of those venues he used and the use of his plane. It amazes me how hard it is for some people to recognize the degree of larceny this "so-called" President is committing on a day to day basis. I would never have believed the stupid in this country runs as wide and deep as it evidently does.

Relating this back to the topic at hand, because the Troll is very good at sidetracking...

In a democracy, passing a bill with 60+% disapproval in the middle of the night without one public hearing does not happen.  These people are oligarchs, not patriots.
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« Reply #19 on: Dec 05, 2017, 07:53AM »

Not exactly. Unlike Hillary, he won without selling his souls to donors.

You have to have a soul to be able to sell it. 
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 05, 2017, 08:37AM »

You have to have a soul to be able to sell it. 

That's true. MyBad. Hillary has no soul.
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« Reply #21 on: Dec 05, 2017, 08:48AM »

That's true. MyBad. Hillary has no soul.

You mean like somebody who's retired and surely drawing social security and medicare while preaching against "entitlement programs" or like somebody who professes a religion and plays in his church's orchestra while advancing a political philosophy that's anti-Christian?  Or just some dullard who's too irrelevant to realize he's just an angry old man?  Maybe somebody that lies on a public forum, and the most cursory Google search for his name shows 40+ instances of him lying in public?  Soulless like that maybe?
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 05, 2017, 09:35AM »

You mean like somebody who's retired and surely drawing social security and medicare while preaching against "entitlement programs" or like somebody who professes a religion and plays in his church's orchestra while advancing a political philosophy that's anti-Christian?  Or just some dullard who's too irrelevant to realize he's just an angry old man?  Maybe somebody that lies on a public forum, and the most cursory Google search for his name shows 40+ instances of him lying in public?  Soulless like that maybe?

That's creepy dude!
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 05, 2017, 09:54AM »

They have a party leader that is only interested in enriching himself and his family, and who is as corrupt as they come.  These guys see that the leader of their party doesn't get into trouble doing this on the public dime, so they believe its ok and fit and proper to do it themselves.

Trump is nothing more than a carpetbagger
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 06, 2017, 08:54AM »

GOP Rep admits his party’s tax bill was ‘mislabeled’ to avoid questions about how Trump will personally benefit
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 06, 2017, 10:45AM »

Trump is nothing more than a carpetbagger

Are you using that term to indicate that he is an outsider?
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 06, 2017, 10:46AM »

GOP senator: No tax cuts for working people because they blow them on “booze or women”

Quote
In an interview with the Des Moines Register, Grassley said that people who “invest” are more deserving of tax cuts because they don’t waste their money on frivolities:

Quote
    “I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” Grassley said, “as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”
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« Reply #27 on: Dec 06, 2017, 12:18PM »

Are you using that term to indicate that he is an outsider?

Dusty, do I need to remind you of your Southern heritage?  A Carpetbagger is one of those damned yankees that moved into the South after the War of Northern Aggression to steal our jobs, our land, and our women.  Or someone descended of said pariah.  So, carpetbagger is a pejorative that indicates not only an outsider, but a crook as well.  I think the term (especially the latter part) describes our Dictator For Life to a tee.
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« Reply #28 on: Dec 07, 2017, 05:35AM »

Dusty, do I need to remind you of your Southern heritage?  A Carpetbagger is one of those damned yankees that moved into the South after the War of Northern Aggression to steal our jobs, our land, and our women.  Or someone descended of said pariah.  So, carpetbagger is a pejorative that indicates not only an outsider, but a crook as well.  I think the term (especially the latter part) describes our Dictator For Life to a tee.

Well, being a crook doesn't necessarily mean carpetbagger does it? Is Trump's official home residence in Florida now? I still think of him as a New Yorker, I guess that's why the term carpetbagger didn't seem exactly right. Maybe from a slang POV.
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« Reply #29 on: Dec 08, 2017, 05:59PM »

True Dusty, but he is definitely a crook.  I have never treated my subcontractors nor my suppliers the awful way he has.  I would never vote for someone who would not pay a contractor, subcontractor, or supplier what he (or she) owes them.  My company has been in business for almost 60 years and we have ALWAYS paid our people what we owed them.
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« Reply #30 on: Dec 09, 2017, 05:09PM »

The deficits created by this tax cut for the rich will be used as excuse for cutting benefits for everyone else, including the ones you have paid for and earned.


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« Reply #31 on: Dec 10, 2017, 01:30PM »

True Dusty, but he is definitely a crook.  I have never treated my subcontractors nor my suppliers the awful way he has.  I would never vote for someone who would not pay a contractor, subcontractor, or supplier what he (or she) owes them.  My company has been in business for almost 60 years and we have ALWAYS paid our people what we owed them.

Sure, that's easy for you to say ... you have integrity.
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