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The Trombone ForumTeaching & LearningPractice Room(Moderator: blast) F Trigger and Double Trigger range
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jacobcox426
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« on: Dec 03, 2017, 01:15PM »

I recently started playing bass trombone and I was wondering if anyone could give me tips or have any effective ways to building up the trigger and double trigger range. My F to Eb sounds good after that it gets a little more quiet. I have a Bach 1 1/2G mouthpiece. Thanks!  :)
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 03, 2017, 03:21PM »

I would get a good method book, like the double valve book by Alan Raph, and get to work.  It gets better and better with tons of practice.  Good!
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 03, 2017, 04:20PM »

Off the horn just doing breathing exercises helps  Good!

And if you can buzz that low on your mouthpiece that’s a great thing to incorporate into your practice.

Also take a few excerpts you like to play and play them down an octave. It helps with staying musical in the more difficult lower range and being fluent and effortless with the triggers.
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 03, 2017, 04:49PM »

There are lots of good introductory and foundation methods for bass trombone. Raph is a good one. Personally, I prefer George Roberts “Let’s Play Bass Trombone” (out of print), or any by Paul Faulise or Lew Gillis.

Keys to getting comfortable and sounding good on the bass trombone, especially in the trigger register, are: focused, steady air with a relaxed mind and body; maintain the same embouchure and mouthpiece setting—if necessary move the jaw out slightly, but not all bass trombonists do (depends on embouchure type); excellent intonation; and patience, dilgence and perseverance.

Specific things to do: long tones, and more long tones; slow slurs; scales, and more scales.

Good luck, and have fun!
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 03, 2017, 05:38PM »

Make sure you're getting the slide in the right place. A lot of neophyte bass trombonists (and more than a few with some experience) don't always get the slide out as far as it needs to go. As they go lower, the difference between the regular positions and the extended positions becomes greater, so they end up having to really lip the pitch to keep from being sharp (or they just play way sharp). That causes the note to not speak well.

Play the note, get it solidly centered, then look at a tuner and see where you're at. If you're out of tune, don't just lip it in, adjust the slide until you can play the note just as well centered as before, but also in tune.
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 03, 2017, 05:38PM »

Long tones down in the basement are good exercises,  along with scale studies down below.

Rochut 1 & 2 octaves down are good too.  NO puffing of the cheeks and as little or few shifts as possible when you descend.  Keep the corners of the embouchure steady.

If you want to play down there,  ya gotta play down there!!!!


Lastly,  try to find a good teacher!



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« Reply #6 on: Dec 04, 2017, 07:08AM »

Another very important thing: listen to other players so you can develop a good sound concept. Listen to as many bass trombonists as you can. Recordings of course, but live preferably.

Compared to 20-30 years ago, there are a lot of bass trombone solo recordings out there. Some classic recordings are by Donald Knaub, George Roberts, and Jeff Reynolds. Listen also to the Philip Jones Brass recordings for Ray Premru. More recent recordings—well, there’s lots. Stefan Schultz, James Markey, Charles Vernon, Randall Hawes, Gerry Pagano, Blair Bollinger, Paul Pollard, John Rojak, etc. If you’re looking for more jazz/commercial sounds, try Bill Reichenbach and David Taylor.
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 04, 2017, 10:18AM »

Play the same notes up an octave, but with the lower octave positions and valves (like D in 5th ish with the valve, but played here  ) and then compare to the low range to find out where the slide should be to tune the low range. If the slide is not in the right place, you'll have a rough time getting the sound right.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 10, 2017, 09:20PM »

See attached warm up routine by Eliot Chasinov. I really like the simple exercise on page 6. Dr. Chasinov recommends maintaining the same set for the second partial in and out of the trigger register. I play this exercise that way, but go for a more "open" sound in other playing I do in that register, but I find establishing a no movement baseline is a good guide to minimize excessive movement in that register. I've been using his exercise this way for a few months and I feel much better playing trigger notes and I'm not moving as much as a default setting! Good luck!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m4fcto9wa22b9lu/Chasinov.warmup.pdf?dl=0

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« Reply #9 on: Dec 13, 2017, 11:27PM »

I play lot of simple melodies down in trigger and pedals range. Try to make them sing and flow. The important thing is to keep things firm around the mouth. I try to have the same feel as an octave above. Easy to listen when a simple melodie doesn't flow so I find it easier to correct when something goes wrong.

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« Reply #10 on: Dec 14, 2017, 02:01AM »

Quote
Quote
Play the same notes up an octave, but with the lower octave positions and valves (like D in 5th ish with the valve, but played here  ) and then compare to the low range to find out where the slide should be to tune the low range. If the slide is not in the right place, you'll have a rough time getting the sound right
That is a very good tip. Every trombonist that are beginers in using the valve downstairs benift from this exercise. Often (very often) restricted sound is because the slide is in the wrong position.
Quote
Make sure you're getting the slide in the right place. A lot of neophyte bass trombonists (and more than a few with some experience) don't always get the slide out as far as it needs to go. As they go lower, the difference between the regular positions and the extended positions becomes greater, so they end up having to really lip the pitch to keep from being sharp (or they just play way sharp). That causes the note to not speak well.
Quote
Off the horn just doing breathing exercises helps  Good!

And if you can buzz that low on your mouthpiece that’s a great thing to incorporate into your practice.

Also take a few excerpts you like to play and play them down an octave. It helps with staying musical in the more difficult lower range and being fluent and effortless with the triggers.
Yes very good tip. Learn to buzz the trigger tones in the mouthpiece.
Quote
I play lot of simple melodies down in trigger and pedals range. Try to make them sing and flow. The important thing is to keep things firm around the mouth. I try to have the same feel as an octave above. Easy to listen when a simple melodie doesn't flow so I find it easier to correct when something goes wrong.

Leif
Splended! Play music and enjoy the sound! Down there. Listen to George Roberts!
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« Reply #11 on: Dec 14, 2017, 06:32AM »

I like how Weston Sprott puts it:

https://westonsprott.com/trigger


I asked a similar question to my teacher in college a few years ago, and the question of "How often do you play in that register" was the first words he responded with. Now granted most of my playing is on tenor, but for me that answer was next to none at that time. Since then, during my warm up I do long tones in all registers including the trigger register, as well as play Bordogni excerpts (8-16 measures) an octave down just about every day. For me that has been enough to make that area of the instrument much more comfortable. While I am by no means ready to step in as a bass trombonist regularly at this point, it has given me the confidence in that range to occasionally sub on big band bass bone parts from time to time.

Moral to the story, how can you get better at playing in the low register? Play in that register a lot and always go for a beautiful sound  Pant
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jacobcox426
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« Reply #12 on: Jan 06, 2018, 08:28PM »

Thank you guys so much for all the advice! I've now reached the point where my low F to Db sounds solid! I can't wait to become a competitive bass trombone my senior year.  :D
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« Reply #13 on: Jan 07, 2018, 03:46AM »

Remington starting on Low F
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« Reply #14 on: Jan 07, 2018, 03:49AM »

Thank you guys so much for all the advice! I've now reached the point where my low F to Db sounds solid! I can't wait to become a competitive bass trombone my senior year.  :D

Good job! Keep practicing  Good!
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« Reply #15 on: Jan 07, 2018, 04:14AM »

Play the same notes up an octave, but with the lower octave positions and valves (like D in 5th ish with the valve, but played here  ) and then compare to the low range to find out where the slide should be to tune the low range. If the slide is not in the right place, you'll have a rough time getting the sound right.
+1

After you get comfortable with how your low range notes feel and develop some fluency down there, then you can experiment with the different 2nd valve tuning methods. Get the fundamentals solid first.

Good luck!  Bass bone parts are fun!
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 07, 2018, 12:55PM »

This exercise has helped me greatly!

Alan Raph / trombone tips / trigger notes - YouTube https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ikuXR_MU3KI
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