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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, slide advantage) Independent Sterling King Duo Gravis Bass Trombone ???
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Author Topic: Independent Sterling King Duo Gravis Bass Trombone ???  (Read 1223 times)
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JohnL
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« Reply #20 on: Dec 07, 2017, 07:50AM »

There was a thread claiming that 83H's are great?  I would love to see that!
How soon we forget:
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,103102.msg1221391.html
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John Beers Jr.

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« Reply #21 on: Dec 07, 2017, 09:06AM »

Something I've noticed is that for a long long time there were no DGs for sale anywhere. And nobody wanted them.

The peanut gallery on TTF chirps positively, and horns show up for sale at inflated prices. Watch for it-- a good thread about a Conn 70H, and Conn 70Hs show up for sale at high prices.

Threads about obscure Conn basses, and 83Hs show up at high prices.

One thing about the old DG, and I bought mine in 1979, is that it arrived on the cusp of the dependent/independent wars. Independent horns were offered to counter the small size of the Bach valves in the 50B2 line. So, the independent wars were on.
Not a whole lot of R&D being done to improve a horn to make it feel and sound like a single valve horn, just a lot of soldering and bending. Usually it did not work, but it made a lot of stinker horns show up on the market to capture market share when the double valve in-lines took market share.
Follow the money, and you'll find the root of all R&D.

I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing. There are a lot of missing horns out there, and calling attention to them and bringing them back to the market may be able to help some low-income players.

A great example of this is the UMI-era 88HO's.

You NEVER see one for sale, but they must have made tens of thousands of the things between 1980 (or whatever) and 2000 with string-linkages and open wraps, but you'll never actually see one for sale. Either they were all destroyed by rambunctious middle/highschoolers (I could believe that perhaps 30% were destroyed, but 95% is a bit excessive) or they're just sitting in attics because nobody has remembered them for years and years. Sure, they might not carry the same panache as an Elkhart-era horn, but they work perfectly well.

Wouldn't it be good for everyone if 10,000 professional-quality Bb/F trombones hit the market in approximately the $1000 price range?
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JohnL
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« Reply #22 on: Dec 07, 2017, 09:42AM »

Wouldn't it be good for everyone if 10,000 professional-quality Bb/F trombones hit the market in approximately the $1000 price range?
Good for everyone except the people trying to sell similar horns for $2000.
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Stan

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« Reply #23 on: Dec 08, 2017, 09:17AM »

Something I've noticed is that for a long long time there were no DGs for sale anywhere. And nobody wanted them.

The peanut gallery on TTF chirps positively, and horns show up for sale at inflated prices. Watch for it-- a good thread about a Conn 70H, and Conn 70Hs show up for sale at high prices.

Threads about obscure Conn basses, and 83Hs show up at high prices.


Man, I thought the exact same thing when that 83H showed up for sale.  The wording of the description was too close to the thread content to be a coincidence. 

WE'RE TREND SETTERS
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greenbean
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« Reply #24 on: Dec 08, 2017, 05:52PM »


Well, that is the classified ad.  Where is the positive thread that preceded this?

Isn't that what bonesmarsh is talking about?  I searched for 83H threads in the Instruments section. Pretty much all negative comments about the model.
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Holton bass trombones...
Burgerbob

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« Reply #25 on: Dec 08, 2017, 06:35PM »

Well, that is the classified ad.  Where is the positive thread that preceded this?

Isn't that what bonesmarsh is talking about?  I searched for 83H threads in the Instruments section. Pretty much all negative comments about the model.

Yup, I can't remember a positive comment about one.

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Brasslab 50T3, Greg Glack 1G .312 #2
Bach 50B, ditto
Bach 50B2, ditto
Conn 60H, ditto
Bach 42B, Greg Black NY 3
Bach 42BG, ditto
Conn 6H, Yamaha 48
Yamaha YEP-842S, Schilke 53/59
Yamaha YBH-301MS, Hammond 12XL
bonesmarsh
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 09, 2017, 05:00AM »

My comments about the 70H and 83H illustrate the same thing, from opposite directions.

70H threads are generally positive, and then one or more show up online for sale by folk who remember they have one in the closet. A discontinued 75 year old horn that would have fetched $200 10 years ago, now commands a $2,000 price...and is likely worth twice that, even for a horn being 75 years old.

The seller of the 83H, finding nothing positive online, started their own positive comments, within the classified ad. A $200 horn 10 years ago, the seller wanted a lot more, just based one one positive comment-- their own.

Check the mouthpieces threads current. Some comments and questions about K&M mouthpieces from Malta. They were introduced here on TTF with a huge splash and lots of positive feedback. Until you looked closer, went to the K&M website and found out the new TTF members being positive were all from Malta, and endorsing K&M as business partners. That is called shilling.

A TTF member frequently wrote positive comments about the horns offered by their company--without having it disclosed that they were employees of that company. They were called on it, and now have their affiliation clearly marked in their address box. That was not shilling, as they did not play the horns they endorsed themselves, but it needed addressing to keep things online free and obvious.

Read with comprehension, folks.


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bassboneman

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« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 05:47 AM »

Hey Boneagain - did you get in touch with Mr. Ward on this SS 6/7B?
sam
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boneagain
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« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 02:52 PM »

Hey Boneagain - did you get in touch with Mr. Ward on this SS 6/7B?
sam

No.  I got a reasonable response from Mr. McCracken. Leaving the Ward angle as a great opportunity for someone else to follow up on :)
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Dave Adams
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